Thoughts on Continuity in Journeys?

[AuraChannelerChris]

Man, I can wait for Ash to school super veteran Cynthia with a Pokemon he barely hatched 3 weeks ago (10 minutes in-universe time)!

 

[Deleted member 384931]

Man, I can wait for Ash to school super veteran Cynthia with a Pokemon he barely hatched 3 weeks ago (10 minutes in-universe time)!

That would be real PAIN

 

[DankOverlord]

Man, I can wait for Ash to school super veteran Cynthia with a Pokemon he barely hatched 3 weeks ago (10 minutes in-universe time)!

Can't wait for Ash's Dragonite to OHKO Garchomp with Dragon Dance and Cynthia's team getting cheesed by Mistake from Science fish

 

[AuraChannelerChris]

Actually, I think it's hilarious that Ash's fresh deals are doing so well, but Gengar - the only veteran-looking one for having a history - is the one lagging behind so much.

 

[SerGoldenhandtheJust]

If Ash uses his reserves in master class battles, it's honestly all cool and would fit the narrative to me. And considering everything, I honestly believe he will be using reserves for Master Class

 

[cricketlaxwolvesbandy]

I don't really understand how anyone can truly believe that Ash defeating the entire PWC, including Champions like Cynthia and Leon, using only his JN's team would make any sense, narratively speaking.

In past series, they made it clear that the gap between regular trainers and Champions/E4 was huge. As an example, remember when Ash's Infernape had nothing to do against Flint's Infernape, and that was near the end of DP, so Infernape was at his strongest. And it was Ash's ace in DP.

The only pokemon from Ash that ever achieved impressive feats were ones that were returning pokemon from past series. Like Charizard defeating Articuno in AG, or Sceptile defeating Darkrai in DP. Plus Pikachu, of course, since he's always there. And the only pokemon to really compete against a Champion was Ash-Greninja.

So, sure, you can say Ash wants to try to get through the PWC using the team he's built this saga, and that's fine, but then he sure as hell shouldn't be getting any further than the first Masters 8 trainer he faces with that team. Otherwise, it's just bad writing.
If they want to make it believable for Ash to become the number 1 trainer in the world, he has to use reserves. If not, they're just retconning previously stablished facts.

Greninja still didn’t defeat Gardevoir or MCX, so by that logic Greninja has to prove itself as a super special and strong Pokemon.

 

[Deleted member 384931]

We have continuity. Now the question if it is GOOD and MEANINGFUL. In some episodes it is like Garys and Iris. In some it can better be not used like the Mewtwo or Dawn one.

 

[Blue Saturday]

Kind of interesting how the tables have turned, I’ve been forced to read reductive complaints of not enough continuity since the BW-era and now we get a whole series of the fanservice people have been complaining about for ages (Champion-level Satoshi, constant continuity fanservice, fully-evolved OP captures, Satoshi getting a “pseudo”, Lucario, etc.) and people still have an aneurysm.

You wanted continuity, you got it. YMMV on quality but I personally have enjoyed most of it. Shigeru, Iris, Kasumi, Takeshi’s returns were fine since the art change era began. Mewtwo was kind of whatever. You even get minor stuff like Wataru and Denji. I guess the reason I don’t find myself heartbreaken over it all is because I never cared about continuity. I’m okay with each series telling its own stories without lacing in connections to previous installments via constant flashbacks, reserves and character returns.

My only wishes for returns were Lillie getting her story finished and Iris just because she hadn’t gotten hers yet. Everything else was inconsequential. People putting their general hinging happiness on character returns always felt like missing out on the real aspect of what the series is about. Telling its own story because you’re focusing on what should be perceived as “bonuses” and not the main dish.

 

[Tabasco Boshi]

I feel some people's concept of continuity differs from mine. Now I'm going to talk about the whole series and not just the current one. Continuity is not just a "character returning" and getting hyped about it. That's the problem actually. I don't want to be hyped because "Infernape returned". I think that should be NORMAL.

I want past characters to be mentioned because it's something completely natural. Are you telling me that you need Dawn to return for her to mention Brock in BW or even in the current series? Brock, you know, that character that spent the most time with Ash, more than any companion ever will? Ash is really going to act as if he didn't exist? I don't want them to ignore characters for years as if they didn't exist because I feel that goes against Ash's character to just ignore his friends. After all, continuity is also staying true to the characters.

A fresh start should never be incompatible with that. When Ash had his first fresh start in Hoenn, in the first few episodes he mentioned both Noctowl and Bayleef and how they could help in the situation. That's not fanservice or something you have to be hyped about. It's just a natural reaction from a character.

The real hype has to come with the new stuff, not with what should be natural storytelling.

 

[janejane6178]

I feel some people's concept of continuity differs from mine. Now I'm going to talk about the whole series and not just the current one. Continuity is not just a "character returning" and getting hyped about it. That's the problem actually. I don't want to be hyped because "Infernape returned". I think that should be NORMAL.

I want past characters to be mentioned because it's something completely natural. Are you telling me that you need Dawn to return for her to mention Brock in BW or even in the current series? Brock, you know, that character that spent the most time with Ash, more than any companion ever will? Ash is really going to act as if he didn't exist? I don't want them to ignore characters for years as if they didn't exist because I feel that goes against Ash's character to just ignore his friends. After all, continuity is also staying true to the characters.

A fresh start should never be incompatible with that. When Ash had his first fresh start in Hoenn, in the first few episodes he mentioned both Noctowl and Bayleef and how they could help in the situation. That's not fanservice or something you have to be hyped about. It's just a natural reaction from a character.

The real hype has to come with the new stuff, not with what should be natural storytelling.

You are splendid

 

[Morax]

i can’t believe people are okay with continuity being a “bonus” and not the part of the main dish.

 

[SerGoldenhandtheJust]

I feel some people's concept of continuity differs from mine. Now I'm going to talk about the whole series and not just the current one. Continuity is not just a "character returning" and getting hyped about it. That's the problem actually. I don't want to be hyped because "Infernape returned". I think that should be NORMAL.

I want past characters to be mentioned because it's something completely natural. Are you telling me that you need Dawn to return for her to mention Brock in BW or even in the current series? Brock, you know, that character that spent the most time with Ash, more than any companion ever will? Ash is really going to act as if he didn't exist? I don't want them to ignore characters for years as if they didn't exist because I feel that goes against Ash's character to just ignore his friends. After all, continuity is also staying true to the characters.

A fresh start should never be incompatible with that. When Ash had his first fresh start in Hoenn, in the first few episodes he mentioned both Noctowl and Bayleef and how they could help in the situation. That's not fanservice or something you have to be hyped about. It's just a natural reaction from a character.

The real hype has to come with the new stuff, not with what should be natural storytelling.

Yeah that's respectable. It's just how the anime has evolved over the time with different iterations it really isn't one consistent story at all, really branching off after DP but still having its charms, so while continuity being natural and always prevalent would be nice, seeing it return after a long absence makes me happy, even if it still isn't 'natural'. In terms of Pokémon I do think JN without a doubt has the best continuity but when it comes to well, normal shows, Pokemon is really lacking due to its lack of a coherent continuum ever since DP

 

[masdog]

I feel some people's concept of continuity differs from mine. Now I'm going to talk about the whole series and not just the current one. Continuity is not just a "character returning" and getting hyped about it. That's the problem actually. I don't want to be hyped because "Infernape returned". I think that should be NORMAL.

I want past characters to be mentioned because it's something completely natural. Are you telling me that you need Dawn to return for her to mention Brock in BW or even in the current series? Brock, you know, that character that spent the most time with Ash, more than any companion ever will? Ash is really going to act as if he didn't exist? I don't want them to ignore characters for years as if they didn't exist because I feel that goes against Ash's character to just ignore his friends. After all, continuity is also staying true to the characters.

A fresh start should never be incompatible with that. When Ash had his first fresh start in Hoenn, in the first few episodes he mentioned both Noctowl and Bayleef and how they could help in the situation. That's not fanservice or something you have to be hyped about. It's just a natural reaction from a character.

The real hype has to come with the new stuff, not with what should be natural storytelling.

I agree. Ash should be talking about his former companions, or hearing what they're up to after continuing on towards their goals.

i can’t believe people are okay with continuity being a “bonus” and not the part of the main dish.

For me, it's not something I'm OK with per se. It's just the combination of extremely long-running show, target audience, floating timeline, and marketing-driven storytelling means that my expectations for actual continuity across generations are really low. The show crossed the point where many call-backs are to references that are older than the target audience some time ago.

 

[Soniman]

It's just the natural conclusion of a long running kid's show thats main purpose is a marketing tool, "natural" continuity is a dead concept at this point so getting hyped at over marketed "comebacks" is all we really have

 

[Morax]

It's just the natural conclusion of a long running kid's show thats main purpose is a marketing tool, "natural" continuity is a dead concept at this point so getting hyped at over marketed "comebacks" is all we really have

So why not start with a clean slate every generation? Keeping Ash around makes no sense if kids are the primary concern, they wouldn’t even care. What do they need us old fans for?

 

[Soniman]

So why not start with a clean slate every generation? Keeping Ash around makes no sense if kids are the primary concern, they wouldn’t even care. What do they need us old fans for?

Because Ash is a mostly blank slate with very general easily moldable characteristics to fit into whatever the saga needs him to be. Rookie trainer? Experienced trainer? Fun loving goofball? Determined and mature? He can do it all as long as loving Pokémon is the main trait. The "legacy" character isnt a new concept btw a lot of long running children's media do this

 

[Morax]

Because Ash is a mostly blank slate with very general easily moldable characteristics to fit into whatever the saga needs him to be. Rookie trainer? Experienced trainer? Fun loving goofball? Determined and mature? He can do it all as long as loving Pokémon is the main trait. The "legacy" character isnt a new concept btw a lot of long running children's media do this

But why keep the old toy around when you can replace it with a new one? Ash generates continuity and if this anime has taught us anything, it’s that they hate referencing the past. A new protagonist would ensure complete protection from continuity entanglement.

About other children’s media, most of them happen to be slice of life( Chibi maruko chan, doraemon or Sazae-san for example ). Pokemon is a traditional hero’s journey, it’s very shounen at its core and the problem with that kind of plot is you need to give the protagonist a closure.

 

[masdog]

So why not start with a clean slate every generation? Keeping Ash around makes no sense if kids are the primary concern, they wouldn’t even care. What do they need us old fans for?

Our wallets?

 

[masdog]

But why keep the old toy around when you can replace it with a new one? Ash generates continuity and if this anime has taught us anything, it’s that they hate referencing the past. A new protagonist would ensure complete protection from continuity entanglement.

About other children’s media, most of them happen to be slice of life( Chibi maruko chan, doraemon or Sazae-san for example ). Pokemon is a traditional hero’s journey, it’s very shounen at its core and the problem with that kind of plot is you need to give the protagonist a closure.

The first four generations of games were all linked pretty closely, so it made sense to keep Ash as the protagonist through the tie-in series. After that, I don't know. It probably came down to brand recognition and not wanting to create a new character that was just an Ash Ketchum clone.

Not that they would need to create new characters - they can just use the game protagonists.

Besides, have you seen kids toys these days? Except for Legos, they kind of suck. My kids would rather play with my old toys than buy something new.

 

[cricketlaxwolvesbandy]

I understand those people who wanted Ash’s journey to end in Sinnoh, but I wanted Ash’s journey to end in Kalos