• We're currently experiencing a minor issue with our email system preventing emails for new registrations and verifications going out. We're currently working to fix this
  • Be sure to join the discussion on our discord at: Discord.gg/serebii
  • If you're still waiting for the e-mail, be sure to check your junk/spam e-mail folders

Thoughts on "Decolora Adventures!" Team Rocket?

Status
Not open for further replies.
I consider OS/AG/DP to all be the same Team Rocket. AG/DP are my favourite Rockets anyway so whatever.

DP Team Rocket kept them (that is, the trio) relevant through contests, and they had souls and funny moments. They also didn't get in the way of Team Galactic's amazing story. BW Team Rocket are very boring with no personality, and they completely replaced BW1's Team Plasma in favour of poorly written Pokémon stealing or legendary controlling episodes. Even if the earthquake never happened, the entirety of season 14 was planned out and there was only 1 Plasma story and lots of terrible Rocket ones.
I agree with you on this one!
 

SlimeStack

Well-Known Member
No. DA is bad because is has returned to PRE-Best Wishes' style of poor writing, because whiney fans like you find the concept of change to be "flawed".
DA02 is just as uneventful as, for example, Cottonee In Love or Unrest at the Nursery. Best Wishes is handled badly throughout the entire series. Giving Team Rocket personality improved them without changing the quality of the actual plots.


Have you not read all the posts above explaining how, no, they were NOT relevant through contests?

Jessie had ZERO impact on the contest storyline. Zero. She could've been replaced with any COTD in the semifinals of the GF and no difference would be made.
I don't really like reading through long topics, especially not with the rants some people go on. :S Anyway, I'd rather see my favourite magenta-head in a contest than a COTD I don't care about. I'd love to see her as a more direct rival if they ever use her for this sort of thing in the future.


First off, "amazing" story? Really? The story that mangled Team Galactic's characterization and purpose from the games and went a very predictable way?

Secondly, yes. They did. They constantly butted in to kiss their own rears and say they're better villains than Team Galactic, only to get blasted off or have something "comedic" happen.
It's the best evil organisation plot they've adapted. Aqua/Magma were horrible, Team Rocket's OS game-based stories were practically non-existent, and they were terrible in BW. Then Plasma had their goal changed to a generic mind control plot and were shoved in after the league as an after-thought. They're definitely the second best though because the characterisation was pretty faithful.

When I say they didn't get in the way, I mean they weren't the primary antagonists. They let Galactic keep their role. With BW, Plasma were shoved out of the way so that JJM could talk like robots and have no personality.


So if BW1 Team Plasma had gotten episodes where they were serious villains who stole Pokemon or controlled Legendaries, you'd be fine with it?
No, I wouldn't. Galactic, Plasma and what little I remember of Aqua/Magma were always focused on taking Pokémon or artefacts that helped their ultimate goal. BW Rocket had frequent two-parters that were just "let's steal those Pokémon for the boss!" There's a reason why JJM didn't get entire arcs dedicated to grabbing stuff for Giovanni pre-BW; it makes awful stories.


Um, no. It would not have had 1 Plasma story. Team Plasma's only appearance would have been in the climax of a Team Rocket story.
That only strengthens my point that Rocket replaced Plasma, which just makes their horribly written characters a bigger flaw in BW's plot.
 

The Great Butler

Hush, keep it down
DA02 is just as uneventful as, for example, Cottonee In Love or Unrest at the Nursery. Best Wishes is handled badly throughout the entire series. Giving Team Rocket personality improved them without changing the quality of the actual plots.
Serious personality =/= no personality.

I don't really like reading through long topics, especially not with the rants some people go on. :S Anyway, I'd rather see my favourite magenta-head in a contest than a COTD I don't care about. I'd love to see her as a more direct rival if they ever use her for this sort of thing in the future.
Looking over "magenta head"... the solution to her being "out of character" is to make her out of character?

Seriously, I want you to tell me how you reconcile what you want from them with the fact that a brain-dead Coordinator and her brain-dead followers is the farthest thing from what their characters were established as. Takeshi Shudo said once that he wanted the series to appeal to all ages, with Team Rocket being for the older end. Turning them into the most infantile characters on the show wasn't what they were created for.

It's the best evil organisation plot they've adapted. Aqua/Magma were horrible, Team Rocket's OS game-based stories were practically non-existent, and they were terrible in BW. Then Plasma had their goal changed to a generic mind control plot and were shoved in after the league as an after-thought. They're definitely the second best though because the characterisation was pretty faithful.
It's Team Rocket's fault the first Plasma plot is far too dark for the main demographic of the anime, which is younger than that of the games?

I'm also guessing you didn't play Black 2 or White 2, because Team Plasma's anime plan is literally identical to it, just without Kyurem.

When I say they didn't get in the way, I mean they weren't the primary antagonists. They let Galactic keep their role. With BW, Plasma were shoved out of the way so that JJM could talk like robots and have no personality.
Oh yeah, let's start the "no personality robots" thing again. Guess what? I think they're robots now with no personalities, programmed to act like brain-dead idiots.

No, I wouldn't. Galactic, Plasma and what little I remember of Aqua/Magma were always focused on taking Pokémon or artefacts that helped their ultimate goal. BW Rocket had frequent two-parters that were just "let's steal those Pokémon for the boss!" There's a reason why JJM didn't get entire arcs dedicated to grabbing stuff for Giovanni pre-BW; it makes awful stories.
Wrong. "Let's grab these Pokemon for the boss!" was only the goal of two out of five of their arcs.

Every appearance in the black uniform era was leading to the skipped Plasma episodes, and they weren't after any Pokemon, they were after the Meteonite. While we may never know the Meteonite's exact purpose, some images have implied that it had the ability to control the weather, which would directly set up Team Rocket's entire BW arc - weather control was their ultimate goal with Operation Tempest.

The Milos Island arc directly set up the Operation Tempest arc by giving them motivation to make their ultimate goal the Kami Trio.

Operation Tempest was built up by Milos Island and indirectly stated that their goal since then was to find how to control the Kami Trio. It did this by saying that the key they 'were looking for' was in Meloetta's song when they discovered it, and Giovanni came in to take the Kami Trio because they were the Pokemon he needed for his ultimate goal. There is literally no technical difference between that and what Team Galactic did.
 

AgentPierce

Mad science FTW!
While we may never know the Meteonite's exact purpose, some images have implied that it had the ability to control the weather, which would directly set up Team Rocket's entire BW arc - weather control was their ultimate goal with Operation Tempest
Also, the name Meteonite is a pun that translates to "Weather Night". So yes, it can control the weather. That was a very consistent element in TR's Unova conquest mission.
 

SlimeStack

Well-Known Member
Serious personality =/= no personality.
BW Rocket having no personality isn't directly linked with them being serious, no, but they definitely had no personality.


Looking over "magenta head"... the solution to her being "out of character" is to make her out of character?

Seriously, I want you to tell me how you reconcile what you want from them with the fact that a brain-dead Coordinator and her brain-dead followers is the farthest thing from what their characters were established as. Takeshi Shudo said once that he wanted the series to appeal to all ages, with Team Rocket being for the older end. Turning them into the most infantile characters on the show wasn't what they were created for.
When did I say anything about being in character? I thought it was pretty clear that I hate BW TR and love DP TR. I don't give a damn if it matches up with Kanto or not.


It's Team Rocket's fault the first Plasma plot is far too dark for the main demographic of the anime, which is younger than that of the games?
Yes, it is. They could have toned down Plasma's plot if it was that risky rather than ignoring them and ruining Rocket.


I'm also guessing you didn't play Black 2 or White 2, because Team Plasma's anime plan is literally identical to it, just without Kyurem.
Maybe Ghetsis and Reshiram did come quite close to the games, but I don't remember Colress mind controlling everything he sees. Team Plasma isn't the subject of this argument anyway.


Wrong. "Let's grab these Pokemon for the boss!" was only the goal of two out of five of their arcs.

Every appearance in the black uniform era was leading to the skipped Plasma episodes, and they weren't after any Pokemon, they were after the Meteonite. While we may never know the Meteonite's exact purpose, some images have implied that it had the ability to control the weather, which would directly set up Team Rocket's entire BW arc - weather control was their ultimate goal with Operation Tempest.

The Milos Island arc directly set up the Operation Tempest arc by giving them motivation to make their ultimate goal the Kami Trio.

Operation Tempest was built up by Milos Island and indirectly stated that their goal since then was to find how to control the Kami Trio. It did this by saying that the key they 'were looking for' was in Meloetta's song when they discovered it, and Giovanni came in to take the Kami Trio because they were the Pokemon he needed for his ultimate goal. There is literally no technical difference between that and what Team Galactic did.
A cancelled arc that was later retconned out of existence and two really bad theft arcs is something that Galactic didn't do.

I can agree on the writers originally having a decent plan, but with 1 arc conclusion never airing and later being retconned out of existence, followed by two bad and irrelevant arcs and then two subpar arcs, it just doesn't feel like it was worth gutting out JJM's personalities.

Let's not forget that almost all of their filler appearances were bad too. I liked Scare in the Litwik Mansion for some reason, which is kind of ironic because JJM's souls were quite literally drained out of them in that episode.
 

The Great Butler

Hush, keep it down
Haunter227: Mainly, the image in the bottom left of this scan, which appears to show the Meteonite generating a storm. There is also the pun AgentPierce mentioned.

When did I say anything about being in character? I thought it was pretty clear that I hate BW TR and love DP TR. I don't give a damn if it matches up with Kanto or not.
'I don't care what their actual characters are, I want them this way!'

Have to admire your honesty, but you just lost all credibility.
 

AgentPierce

Mad science FTW!
which appears to show the Meteonite generating a storm. There is also the pun AgentPierce mentioned.
It's not just a storm, there's an erupting volcano and an earthquake that seems to segway into a flood toward the city (yeah, easy to see why this got pulled from the air, huh?)
 

SlimeStack

Well-Known Member
Haunter227: Mainly, the image in the bottom left of this scan, which appears to show the Meteonite generating a storm. There is also the pun AgentPierce mentioned.



'I don't care what their actual characters are, I want them this way!'

Have to admire your honesty, but you just lost all credibility.

So it's fine for Best Wishes to change them but not AG/DP?

Change is not the issue here, if they change in XY I'm all for it. I just don't want them to be boring. In DA, they're acting like DP, which is better than BW so I'm happy. If they reverted to OS or turned into something new I'd be happy with that too.
 
Last edited:

Rohanator

Well-Known Member
So it's fine for Best Wishes to change them but not AG/DP?

Change is not the issue here, if they change in XY I'm all for it. I just don't want them to be boring. In DA, they're acting like DP, which is better than BW so I'm happy. If they reverted to OS or turned into something new I'd be happy with that too.
What is boring though? Honestly, in BW you would at least be sort of guessing what they're doing and will they even be in an episode(well, at least I was until I started following spoilers like voice cast lists, kinda wish I hadn't lol) whereas before you'd know they're in every episode, you know they'll do something incredibly stupid and the only exceptions would be episodes that focused on their characters which were good, but too rare to justify all the bullsh*t in between. I mean if you enjoy their "comedy" then by all means. I'm quite happy that even in DA Team Rocket hasn't appeared in every episode. Gives some slim hope.
 

SlimeStack

Well-Known Member
What is boring though? Honestly, in BW you would at least be sort of guessing what they're doing and will they even be in an episode(well, at least I was until I started following spoilers like voice cast lists, kinda wish I hadn't lol) whereas before you'd know they're in every episode, you know they'll do something incredibly stupid and the only exceptions would be episodes that focused on their characters which were good, but too rare to justify all the bullsh*t in between. I mean if you enjoy their "comedy" then by all means. I'm quite happy that even in DA Team Rocket hasn't appeared in every episode. Gives some slim hope.
They're boring in that they carry out their missions like robots. They show absolutely no emotion. Nothing seems to annoy them, make them happy, make them sad, etc. We learn nothing of what they like or dislike, they never seem to disagree on anything. Nothing interests them other than their main goal. It's just mission mission mission. When it came to battles they'd either win or retreat, no sign of any frustration or satisfaction from them. The biggest glimmer of personality in the entire series is probably James showing kindness to Yamask. I seriously can't think of any other examples.

In terms of the actual plot I will admit I was intrigued by the Meteonite build up once they stopped with their strange lifeless blast off-less version of their traditional Ash-stalking business. I wasn't really pleased with anything else they did though.
 

The Great Butler

Hush, keep it down
They're boring in that they carry out their missions like robots. They show absolutely no emotion. Nothing seems to annoy them, make them happy, make them sad, etc. We learn nothing of what they like or dislike, they never seem to disagree on anything. Nothing interests them other than their main goal. It's just mission mission mission. When it came to battles they'd either win or retreat, no sign of any frustration or satisfaction from them. The biggest glimmer of personality in the entire series is probably James showing kindness to Yamask. I seriously can't think of any other examples.
If you didn't see any happiness, frustration or anything else, it's because you're choosing to ignore it. It was there, you just didn't like the way it was delivered.
 

SlimeStack

Well-Known Member
If you didn't see any happiness, frustration or anything else, it's because you're choosing to ignore it. It was there, you just didn't like the way it was delivered.
You've listed a couple of bare facts in between the telling me my opinion is somehow wrong or just flat out ignoring my posts, but you've yet to give a single example of how BW Team Rocket was so great. In fact I think I've given more positive examples than you have, which says something.
 

The Great Butler

Hush, keep it down
You've listed a couple of bare facts in between the telling me my opinion is somehow wrong or just flat out ignoring my posts, but you've yet to give a single example of how BW Team Rocket was so great. In fact I think I've given more positive examples than you have, which says something.
Happiness: Seen when Giovanni praised them in early BW, even when he didn't directly tell them himself.

Sadness: When Matori told them Giovanni couldn't give them any more assignments.

Frustration: When they practically got into a shouting match witn Dr. Zager as the Battle Subway mission unraveled.

I don't know what to call it, but there is also the three of them throwing away Operation Tempest purely to save Giovanni when everything went bad at the end.

BW Team Rocket was better for the show because they contributed actual stories throughout the series and were not used as a crutch for lazy writing. What examples have you provided for why AG/DP/Da! Team Rocket, who contribute nothing but infantile humor, are so great, besides 'screw the fact they were meant to be threatening, I know better!'?
 

SlimeStack

Well-Known Member
Happiness: Seen when Giovanni praised them in early BW, even when he didn't directly tell them himself.

Sadness: When Matori told them Giovanni couldn't give them any more assignments.

Frustration: When they practically got into a shouting match witn Dr. Zager as the Battle Subway mission unraveled.

I don't know what to call it, but there is also the three of them throwing away Operation Tempest purely to save Giovanni when everything went bad at the end.

BW Team Rocket was better for the show because they contributed actual stories throughout the series and were not used as a crutch for lazy writing. What examples have you provided for why AG/DP/Da! Team Rocket, who contribute nothing but infantile humor, are so great, besides 'screw the fact they were meant to be threatening, I know better!'?
Those are some pretty good examples. Strange how two of them happen to be from the exact same episode I pointed out with James recruiting Yamask (if I'm remembering right). They did actually seem a bit more relaxed during the middle of season 1, but they were also mostly absent so it's difficult to appreciate it.

Seems we've fulfilled the requirement for any Internet argument: we're talking about different things. My opinion is almost purely regarding Team Rocket's personalities and that BW's Rocket stories weren't entertaining enough to justify the change. I don't think I need to provide any examples on that; annoying or not, pre-BW TR were definitely much more emotive with constant squabbles and they have moments of intense happiness like when Jessie won ribbons, and lots of sadness when they released their Pokémon etc. I prefer them when they're loud and vibrant which has hopefully come across by now.

I think I did say at some point in this topic that their screen time was an issue pre-BW, and I don't know whether DA03 is good or not but it seems they're still willing to reduce their screen time to some degree right now, which is a good thing. Extremely boring COTD stories that use Team Rocket purely as inspiration to solve the problem and blast them off within the space of 20 seconds is bad too, and I remember listing Light of the Floccesy Ranch as being a recent example of this.

So...their personalities is what I'm happy to see, not the traditional way of using them. If they ever go the contest route again it'd be great to see Jessie go on training/rivalry arcs during the stretches where Team Rocket don't actively do their thing. I wouldn't really mind them doing the whole 2-parter mission things either, just as long as the XY Team gets a full story out and Rocket's stories aren't as bland as the Subway arc.
 
I don't know what to call it, but there is also the three of them throwing away Operation Tempest purely to save Giovanni when everything went bad at the end.
Humility?
I'm not sure. I think it's an emotion.
 

Haunter ゴースト

Well-Known Member
Ah, I remember that scan.

I never thought about it but I suppose you could actually be right that TR's goal was to control the weather overall in BW the Kami Trio being connected to it all. Interesting, i'm still waiting for the day where we get confirmation of what was originally going to happen in the TR vs TP two-parter and whatever followed.
 

The Great Butler

Hush, keep it down
Wow, um... today they didn't even contribute a Pikachu-catching plot to the episode. They literally did absolutely nothing but show up to act stupid.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top