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Thoughts on the Masters 8/PWC as a whole?

Ryker101

Well-Known Member
There’s a number of things I’d change whilst still keeping true to the main ideas
- In normal/super class I’d encourage more use of other team members, ie when Ash has those brief battles so everyone else can shine
- I would make Ash vs Marnie a super class battle instead, having those eps happen much earlier. That battle felt smaller in scope and Marnie didn’t seem that impressive compared to other Hyper Class members imo, this also helps me make room for hyper class
- I’d make Ash vs Rinto rematch a 2v2, with Lucario and Farfetchd vs smth like Escavlier and Gallade. I think the 1v1 was too drawn out and I’d remove the weird part with Grookey to make room for Lucario’s battle (but have him job here)
- If possible I’d make Ash vs Iris a 3v3, with them adding Sirfetchd/Excadrill to the mix. The battle would be similar except Excadrill beats Dracovish but loses to Sirfetchd, which Haxorus beats. I’d also make the reunion a 2 parter (and remove one of the fillers) so this ep is just devoted to the battle
- Hyper class lineup: Volkner, Bea, Flint, Alain, Drasna, Raihan, if I had to stick to 5 I’d replace Volkner with Flint since their battles would be similar, structures below
- Ash vs Flint: Pikachu/Dragonite/Lucario vs Infernape/Houndoom/Magmorter, lots of switching again and Ash would win by Pikachu z-move on Infernape
- Alain’s return would also allow us to catch up with him, could be a 2-parter but could squeeze this into one ep (like Ash vs Volkner), structure is Dracovish/Dragonite/Lucario vs Malamar/Chestnaught/Charizard, would be almost raid-battle like with Ash chipping away at Charizard throughout before beating it with Mega Lucario
- Have Sirfetch’d beat Hawlucha against Bea, also not have Lucario take so many hits
- Ash vs Drasna would be a double battle, since that allows Sirfetchd/Dracovish to work together better and allow Ash to win more strategically
- For M8 I would mix reserves for Steven and Cynthia, something like Krookodile/Gengar/Sceptile and Dragonite/Greninja/Snorlax/Sirfefchd/Lucario/Infernape but have Ash take on Leon with Journeys team still, as most climactic fights have Ash use his regional team and the multiple gimmicks was awesome

There’s still a lot to fix but it’s where I’d start atm
 
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SkyBlaze9125

Well-Known Member
I like Lance v Diantha because it the only battle between 2 Champions (experienced).

Not a battle betweeen the protagonist v Champion

Not a battle with the Monarch sweeper

Not a battle between a experienced Champion vs young still have lot of potential Champoion
 

Sham

npc
Now that it’s been officially confirmed, he’s leaving: that has been the most lackluster league in the history of history and I feel like people only defend this because Ash won. Most of the start battles look unplanned, it’s clear the Diantha vs Leon one as well and even things like Lucario vs Garchomp was anti climatic.

It’s clear all of the energy was saved for Ash vs Leon. Animation and presentation aside, it makes the other Champions appearing just like pawns to push Leon vs Ash.

Nobody questioned if either of them were winning the league and you honestly could’ve replaced them with characters of the day and nothing would change. The Champions were brought back as bait and pawns to make this tournament seem more serious than it actually was. Worst of all the baiting wasn’t even nice because the battles they were were not nice even from a writing perspective

Anyways, I’m not really impressed that this was Ash’s final run. I guess it’s good for his fans that he’s became the Monarch but it felt like it was at the most hollow league.
 

Blood Red

1996-2023
Why were you disappointed? The lack of reserves is one thing but they did everything with Ash they should of here. Ash rematching Alan without Greninja would have been pointless.
The lack of reserves is the main thing here, not to mention the lackluster animation for most of it, the follow-up (i.e. basically nothing), the lack of his friends or even his mother in the stands...I could go on for hours, but I don't have the energy.
 

masdog

What is the airspeed of an unladen Swellow?
Imagine you have the biggest fight in your life, and yet only two friends bothered to come watch. Your own mom doesn't come for it.
I’m not sure what your point is exactly. Olympic athletes don’t have all of their family and friends travel to watch them compete. There are a lot of times where NBC has a live feed from the family and friends watching the competition live on TV.

(And I’m not including the 2020 2021 Tokyo Olympics in that because of COVID travel restrictions…this predates COVID).
 

Blood Red

1996-2023
I’m not sure what your point is exactly. Olympic athletes don’t have all of their family and friends travel to watch them compete. There are a lot of times where NBC has a live feed from the family and friends watching the competition live on TV.

(And I’m not including the 2020 2021 Tokyo Olympics in that because of COVID travel restrictions…this predates COVID).
This isn't the real world though, you understand that right? Travel is so cheap that a couple kids can travel halfway 'round the world for some ice cream, and character motivations and schedules are completely up to the people actually writing the show.

I get that real world obligations are a thing, but...this isn't the real world.
 

masdog

What is the airspeed of an unladen Swellow?
This isn't the real world though, you understand that right?
I get that real world obligations are a thing, but...this isn't the real world.
Yes, I do understand that.

I just feel its a really weird argument to make, like they're almost looking for things to complain about.
 

Blood Red

1996-2023
Yes, I do understand that.

I just feel its a really weird argument to make, like they're almost looking for things to complain about.
I personally think it's a pretty valid complaint tbh, the show could've done a lot more to give Ash's big moment a bit more...gravitas, shall we say.
 

Broseph08

Well-Known Member
Last battle became even better to me now that Ash is gone honestly. I still dislike Leon's ace being a Charizard of all things but I can't deny that the final clash of a 25 year running anime coming down to the two most iconic Pokemon in the franchise isn't fitting
 

TheNewGuy

Well-Known Member
I'm even more satisfied with this now I know he's done. The Leon fight was the perfect climax to Ash's story and Ash/Cynthia is at minimum top 5 for the show. It remains the only league to deliver two top-tier battles unless you count the Alain fight in Kalos.

Hindsight is also helping to mend the irritation of the waits - the breaks and recaps - and focus only on the episodes themselves.
 

masdog

What is the airspeed of an unladen Swellow?
I personally think it's a pretty valid complaint tbh, the show could've done a lot more to give Ash's big moment a bit more...gravitas, shall we say.
I agree that there should have been something to give the moment more gravitas. With the way the M8 was executed, I don't think having everyone there to cheer Ash on would make it better, though, because it would be too crowded to give everyone meaningful interactions on screen.

And yeah, my use of real-world logic doesn't really fit here.
 

mockingjay

swift and lol
The cameos were cool but the characters seemed so OOC and half baked, Ash's development was non-existent throughout. Take away the championships which was always part of Ash's endgame and this would have been a pretty average series.
 

Phreack

ph334r me!...Please?
I don't care about anything but the fact my boy is finally a recognized World Champion. I'm reviving this dormant account after 6 years since the last venting revival just to celebrate now.
 

SerGoldenhandtheJust

Deluded Dreamer
I absolutely agree that the PWC could have been more epic but also I'm really at a loss how people think this is the worst league lol
Not even close imo, only Sinnoh league clears it easily, with Johto and Alola league a great contender imo

While yeah the animation was ROUGH and Leon's battle pre Ash were meh, I really enjoyed it ESP Ash vs Cynthia and Leon
Knowing it was THE final battle, Ash vs Leon is enhanced so much for me man. It was perfect, Pikachu vs Charizard as the final battle for Ash's career fits
 

masdog

What is the airspeed of an unladen Swellow?
Applying real world logic to a show that defies even its own rules is...something.
And yeah, my use of real-world logic doesn't really fit here.
In hindsight, using real world logic to explain why Ash didn't have a huge cheering section is a lot more sane than the discussion that tries to use real world genetics to prove that Ash and <insert Pokegirl here> are Ryko's parents.
 
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