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Thoughts on the Masters 8/PWC as a whole?

Broseph08

Well-Known Member
Honestly then the best bet would be just go with Lance. At least he has that emotionless stoic thing that people find interesting. He has no personality either but at least that’s his thing which is showing no emotion and he’s been in the anime since OS and actually had a bunch of moments with Ash.

It’s not a big thing but just randomly making Steven the third most powerful and hype around him facing Ash was arbitrary tbh
It was random but I don't remember it being hyped. He was just the first matchup of the tournament for Ash. The equivalent of Titus/Astrid in Kalos or Nando in DP. Also I don't think Steven is really emotionless like Lance was. He's more of the 'cool and collected' type as opposed to being uber serious like Lance was
 

Sham

The Guardian of Ruin and Birth
It was random but I don't remember it being hyped. He was just the first matchup of the tournament for Ash. The equivalent of Titus/Astrid in Kalos or Nando in DP. Also I don't think Steven is really emotionless like Lance was. He's more of the 'cool and collected' type as opposed to being uber serious like Lance was
Actually you’re right. It was mostly the fandom but them adding him onto the “1,2,3” thing along Cynthia was just a thing…I guess.

As far as the other Champions not showing any personality, I’d say Cynthia showed a more stoic take during battling that she didn’t before. She seemed more serious and aloof.
 

Sham

The Guardian of Ruin and Birth
They should’ve properly explained how the rankings go. In some instances we have the anime implying that rankings does equate to strength and other instances—it’s who’s been longer.

Which is it? Lance went from number two, to number 4 yet we still don’t why or have Cynthia and Steven got to their places
 

SerGoldenhandtheJust

Deluded Dreamer
I like to think that Cynthia Steven and Diantha etc didn't participate in the original PWC where Leon first became World Champion by beating Lance. But after he did that, and his legendary status as the unbeatable, they got very interested in surpassing him and entered the tournament, giving us the first Masters 8 which featured all the champions upto that point
Makes it more satisfying to think about
 

AJ97

Well-Known Member
I like to think that Cynthia Steven and Diantha etc didn't participate in the original PWC where Leon first became World Champion by beating Lance. But after he did that, and his legendary status as the unbeatable, they got very interested in surpassing him and entered the tournament, giving us the first Masters 8 which featured all the champions upto that point
Makes it more satisfying to think about
This isn't logical.
Plus, the Champions entering the tournament to "Surpass" Leon doesn't make much sense. It would make more sense for the Champions to enter to get the title of being the strongest trainer in the world.

I mean, Cynthia, Steven and Diantha could easily request an official battle with Leon and challenge him outside the PWC setting if it was just about battling him. Unlike Ash, the former 3 are celebrities and actual Regional champions from credible leagues.

Plus, makes no sense to think that they all started the exact time Ash had. I mean, Ash barely had any roadblocks in the tournament outside of the small struggle after his initial loss against Bea. Cynthia was already in the Master Class even before Ash entered the Hyper Class; based on Volkner's comments post their battle.

Additionally, Leon seemed to know all of their battle styles and have a good idea of how strong the rest of them were.

I think Lance is being necessarily looked down upon. Diantha wasn't necessarily superior to Lance. One crucial reason she came out ahead was that she was able to predict Lance's last strategy. If she hadn't done this, the battle could've gone the other way.

That said, I do agree Lance doesn't seem stronger than Steven or Diantha (And the writers seem to see this as well based on how they allocated the ranks). Maybe Leon defeated Cynthia and Steven in the last PWC? Or perhaps Cynthia defeated Steven and lost to Leon?

I mean, what if this years final tournament had Leon, Cynthia, Steven and Ash in the second block with Iris, Diantha, Lance & lain in the first block?
Even if one of them reached the finals, it doesn't mean that they are necessarily stronger than everyone in the other Block (Or at least until they beat the strongest trainer from their block).
 

jrizza88

Meteorite
After watching the world cup so far, I wish the PWC followed this format where pre knockout rounds (or top 8 given the current format) followed the world cup where you'd have to win a certain amount to guarantee a spot in the top 8 (or top 16 if we got what we wanted including reserves). That way, Ash could have lost one or tied a round in the pre knockouts, we could have saw more elite 4, powerful trainers, reserves, etc. They could have even just had the reserves for the pre-elims and gave us the Journeys team for the top 8 or 16...
 

AuraChannelerChris

Easygoing Luxray.
After watching the world cup so far, I wish the PWC followed this format where pre knockout rounds (or top 8 given the current format) followed the world cup where you'd have to win a certain amount to guarantee a spot in the top 8 (or top 16 if we got what we wanted including reserves).
The anime already did this in Johto.
 
In my opinion, the PWC as a whole was a massive waste of potential. For what should've felt like a celebration of the show's long history and a grand stage for Ash to achieve some of his greatest accomplishments, the execution was absolutely terrible. Off-screened battles, missed chances to pull out ignored or 'jobber' reserves and give them some glory, very little use of past rivals Ash never beat, only one E4 match, complete lack of SwSh characters...honestly, it felt less impactful than a badge quest.

The M8 was slightly better, but it was still far from what it should've been. With the lack of reserves and almost none of Ash's friends in attendance, what should've felt like the culmination of Ash's journey as a battler felt rather weak.
perfect comment, nothing more to say
 

SatoSereFan224888

Well-Known Member
I really hope its legacy is properly continued tho in the future as we have confirmation Ash is continuing
Hope this isn't just swept away and is treated as monumental as the narrative established it to be
I’m afraid the writers will reset Ash again which is stupid. I’d rather have Ash become an adult and be a supporting character instead of the main hero.
 

ShuckFam

Well-Known Member
The PWC could have be used to settle some scores some of us older, pettier fans, wanted to be settled. It would have been nice to see Ash overwhelm Trip in the normal class to show the levels between them, along with Ash's growth. Tobias coming back would have been so cool, too. He would have slotted in nicely as a Project Mew guy, what with him catching so many legends and all.

I would have made Ash fight Alain in the Ultra class and lose (with Ash Greninja), leading to the Greninja/Lucario training arc where the frog passes the torch to his superior ally. Alain then loses to Ash in the M8, with Lucario solo'ing his entire team.
 

vondecayle

Well-Known Member
I’m glad that quite a few pokemon got some much needed screentime. Aurorus, Spiritomb, Cradily and Mr. Rime.
 
I would have made Ash fight Alain in the Ultra class and lose (with Ash Greninja), leading to the Greninja/Lucario training arc where the frog passes the torch to his superior ally. Alain then loses to Ash in the M8, with Lucario solo'ing his entire team.
I don't want to be rude but this is horrible. It is not possible that you talked about this rematch without mentioning that Alain and Serena should have appeared together, like a couple. Also, MCX vs Greninja again sounds silly, Bisharp's revenge is better, with the Steele boy winning, and then, being avenged (Greninja)by Lucario Base who would make a monumental sweep.
 

Ryker101

Well-Known Member
There’s a number of things I’d change whilst still keeping true to the main ideas
- In normal/super class I’d encourage more use of other team members, ie when Ash has those brief battles so everyone else can shine
- I would make Ash vs Marnie a super class battle instead, having those eps happen much earlier. That battle felt smaller in scope and Marnie didn’t seem that impressive compared to other Hyper Class members imo, this also helps me make room for hyper class
- I’d make Ash vs Rinto rematch a 2v2, with Lucario and Farfetchd vs smth like Escavlier and Gallade. I think the 1v1 was too drawn out and I’d remove the weird part with Grookey to make room for Lucario’s battle (but have him job here)
- If possible I’d make Ash vs Iris a 3v3, with them adding Sirfetchd/Excadrill to the mix. The battle would be similar except Excadrill beats Dracovish but loses to Sirfetchd, which Haxorus beats. I’d also make the reunion a 2 parter (and remove one of the fillers) so this ep is just devoted to the battle
- Hyper class lineup: Volkner, Bea, Flint, Alain, Drasna, Raihan, if I had to stick to 5 I’d replace Volkner with Flint since their battles would be similar, structures below
- Ash vs Flint: Pikachu/Dragonite/Lucario vs Infernape/Houndoom/Magmorter, lots of switching again and Ash would win by Pikachu z-move on Infernape
- Alain’s return would also allow us to catch up with him, could be a 2-parter but could squeeze this into one ep (like Ash vs Volkner), structure is Dracovish/Dragonite/Lucario vs Malamar/Chestnaught/Charizard, would be almost raid-battle like with Ash chipping away at Charizard throughout before beating it with Mega Lucario
- Have Sirfetch’d beat Hawlucha against Bea, also not have Lucario take so many hits
- Ash vs Drasna would be a double battle, since that allows Sirfetchd/Dracovish to work together better and allow Ash to win more strategically
- For M8 I would mix reserves for Steven and Cynthia, something like Krookodile/Gengar/Sceptile and Dragonite/Greninja/Snorlax/Sirfefchd/Lucario/Infernape but have Ash take on Leon with Journeys team still, as most climactic fights have Ash use his regional team and the multiple gimmicks was awesome

There’s still a lot to fix but it’s where I’d start atm
 
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SkyBlaze9125

Well-Known Member
I like Lance v Diantha because it the only battle between 2 Champions (experienced).

Not a battle betweeen the protagonist v Champion

Not a battle with the Monarch sweeper

Not a battle between a experienced Champion vs young still have lot of potential Champoion
 

Sham

The Guardian of Ruin and Birth
Now that it’s been officially confirmed, he’s leaving: that has been the most lackluster league in the history of history and I feel like people only defend this because Ash won. Most of the start battles look unplanned, it’s clear the Diantha vs Leon one as well and even things like Lucario vs Garchomp was anti climatic.

It’s clear all of the energy was saved for Ash vs Leon. Animation and presentation aside, it makes the other Champions appearing just like pawns to push Leon vs Ash.

Nobody questioned if either of them were winning the league and you honestly could’ve replaced them with characters of the day and nothing would change. The Champions were brought back as bait and pawns to make this tournament seem more serious than it actually was. Worst of all the baiting wasn’t even nice because the battles they were were not nice even from a writing perspective

Anyways, I’m not really impressed that this was Ash’s final run. I guess it’s good for his fans that he’s became the Monarch but it felt like it was at the most hollow league.
 

Blood Red

【推しの子】
Why were you disappointed? The lack of reserves is one thing but they did everything with Ash they should of here. Ash rematching Alan without Greninja would have been pointless.
The lack of reserves is the main thing here, not to mention the lackluster animation for most of it, the follow-up (i.e. basically nothing), the lack of his friends or even his mother in the stands...I could go on for hours, but I don't have the energy.
 

masdog

What is the airspeed of an unladen Swellow?
Imagine you have the biggest fight in your life, and yet only two friends bothered to come watch. Your own mom doesn't come for it.
I’m not sure what your point is exactly. Olympic athletes don’t have all of their family and friends travel to watch them compete. There are a lot of times where NBC has a live feed from the family and friends watching the competition live on TV.

(And I’m not including the 2020 2021 Tokyo Olympics in that because of COVID travel restrictions…this predates COVID).
 
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