Thoughts on the Upcoming Pokemon Switch Game?

[Minedreigon]

Can we stop acting like catching in this game is even remotely as difficult or tedious as in previous installments as a way of trying to make that one Gym requirement sound more ridiculous than it actually is?

No. Subjectivity is a thing. I genuinely think it’s tedious to go around a route and lob pokéballs at things just to progress, grinding my story progress to a halt just because a certain gym wasn’t happy with my dex completion. A fault doesn’t not exist because you said so.

Because I have two badges and already enough captures to cover that Gym. I’m usually a person who catches literally just my team and HM slaves when needed, and yet I have fifty five already.

Good for you in that that’s how you are liking to play this game. It’s not for everyone though.

The game is designed to function around quick, easy captures thanks to the Go mechanic - that’s part of the contextual buy-in of playing this game in the first place, and it’s baked in more thoroughly than any other game in the past. I don’t love it being a requirement, but in this game, it’s so minor that I almost feel people who are that bothered by it aren’t getting the most out of the game anyway

For the billionth time, a lot of us feel like that takes away from the open ended nature of Pokémon. We shouldn’t have to play in a very particular way to enjoy ourselves, because that isn’t something the other main series games did.

With the advent of Quick Balls, capturing Pokémon has always been quick and easy, that isn’t new to this game. It doesn’t make capturing Pokémon in large numbers any less tedious.

- to not have plenty of captures by then means you’re either rushing through it or intentionally avoiding wild encounters to artificially inflate the difficulty because you weren’t going to be satisfied with the game’s difficulty in the first place and on some level already knew that. I can’t honestly explain it any other way.

Or you just don’t like to play that way. Simple as that. It’s not invalid just because it’s not how you’re playing.

 

[Bguy7]

Again, the EXP Share has never been unbalanced. Seriously, how could you possibly complain about something that was optional? Don't like it? Don't use it. Problem solved.

I'm not complaining about something that was optional. I'm saying that if the EXP. Share, as it were in X/Y and Sun/Moon was never able to be turned off, then it would be unbalanced. Which, to my knowledge, seemed to be the case here. This isn't about what used to be, this is about what it is now. And all I have to go off of for what it is now, is what it used to be, minus the ability to turn it off.

As for your three criteria for Let's GO, the second has already been confirmed, forever ago. They said during E3 that trainer battles will give less EXP.

I did not know that.

Just to be clear though, do you mean less experience compared to catching in this game, or less experience compared to trainer battles in previous games? I meant when compared to trainer battles from previous games.

As for the third criterion, non-battling pokemon have always received less EXP.

I meant even less than before.

I honestly do not understand your issue, here. I've had to grind to level up my pokemon twice, because the EXP Share in Let's GO wasn't up to par. For real, I think you're just looking for something to be upset about. This game isn't nearly as easy as people claimed it would be. Hell, it feels like your average Pokémon game.

Trust me, I am not looking for something to be upset about. Surely you remember that I was one of the people defending this game before, and have been mostly positive towards it. I have no reason to nitpick complaints. I'm not some random hater who needs an excuse to bash the games, as I truly want to enjoy them. I'm not complaining that the game is too easy, as I am still too early on in it to make that claim. I am simply worried of what the forced EXP. Share means for later in the game.

And if what you say is true, and I won't be over-leveled if I don't do lots of catching, then I am quite happy with that, as I plan on playing this game the same way I would any other Pokémon game, and mostly only catching the Pokémon I use on my team until I beat the game (at least as much as the game allows me to).

 

[Minedreigon]

I honestly do not understand your issue, here. I've had to grind to level up my pokemon twice, because the EXP Share in Let's GO wasn't up to par.

Isn’t this a bad thing? Just wondering. Because I think the EXP Share negating grinding in Gen 6 and 7 is basically the best thing about those games gameplay wise. Grinding only adds tedium as opposed to genuine difficulty. I like the satisfaction of proving Cynthia is a joke by sweeping her team with a Lv 53 Gliscor, not with a Lv 100 one.

 

[Wulava]

A dedicated HELP THREAD has been created for your general questions about the game.

 

[Cradily17]

Hmmm... Interesting. It seems that even Joe thinks LGPE are deeply flawed games, and he defended them a lot before they were released.

 

[VoltTacklingPika]

He's not wrong. The execution of the new capture mechanics are a mixed bag at best, and that's a huge flaw given that a large portion of your time will be spent capturing Pokemon.

I'm in a similar position to him. I've enjoyed playing Let's Go Eevee a lot so far, but even when I judge its own merits and remove the context of it being a "main" game, it still has some deep flaws that hold it back from being an outstanding entry in the series. On the brighter sides, a lot of these flaws are mechanical and somewhat excusable given it's the first time they've developed for the Switch. I'm sure with time and experience they can make improvements.

 

[lemoncatpower]

Hmmm... Interesting. It seems that even Joe thinks LGPE are deeply flawed games, and he defended them a lot before they were released.

Honestly his opinions are just the opinions of any other hard-core pokemon gamer. Im finding it a blast to play through if you're not expecting anything over and above and you allow for some inperfect parts due to it being a new style.

 

[Storm the Lycanroc]

As I see it the first Pokemon games released on any system are a proof of concept. Compare XY to USUM on the 3DS, over the years they managed to improve on things. At this point who knows what PK19 will improve upon?

 

[PrinceOfFacade]

Isn’t this a bad thing? Just wondering. Because I think the EXP Share negating grinding in Gen 6 and 7 is basically the best thing about those games gameplay wise. Grinding only adds tedium as opposed to genuine difficulty. I like the satisfaction of proving Cynthia is a joke by sweeping her team with a Lv 53 Gliscor, not with a Lv 100 one.

To each their own, but I prefer a challenge when I play.

I hate having a team that is too strong. Whenever I train, I intentionally keep certain stats of my pokemon low (the stat depending on the pokemon), so as to provide them with weaknesses and force me to play more strategically. This is why I am so glad Natures returned. They are, to me, the best mechanic the series ever received. They alone help make the game more difficult, at least in the general story (I don't hunt for natures).

 

[Ignition]

So we're still using the "It's not a bad way to play because that's what I'm personally ok with it" as an argument?


They really tried making the Legendary battles hard. Key word here is try

 

[Sαpphire]

No. Subjectivity is a thing. I genuinely think it’s tedious to go around a route and lob pokéballs at things just to progress, grinding my story progress to a halt just because a certain gym wasn’t happy with my dex completion. A fault doesn’t not exist because you said so.

Good for you in that that’s how you are liking to play this game. It’s not for everyone though.

For the billionth time, a lot of us feel like that takes away from the open ended nature of Pokémon. We shouldn’t have to play in a very particular way to enjoy ourselves, because that isn’t something the other main series games did.

With the advent of Quick Balls, capturing Pokémon has always been quick and easy, that isn’t new to this game. It doesn’t make capturing Pokémon in large numbers any less tedious.

Or you just don’t like to play that way. Simple as that. It’s not invalid just because it’s not how you’re playing.

All I’m getting out of this is that the people who aren’t enjoying the game due to the capture mechanics are the people who very clearly hated the idea from the start, months ago when it was revealed. The only difference is that now, you have to catch a few to finish the game.

Playing these games like they’re the old games is approaching them with the wrong mental context. It’s one thing to have a discussion about the series having previously been more open-ended, but in this specific case, it’s a matter of either a failure to fully embrace that context shift, or that you were never going to like this game anyway, as a direct result of these changes. Is it a good thing that the game limits your number of possible approaches? No, it’s not, I won’t pretend it is. Is it a game-breaking, miserable experience to catch that many over the course of the many hours you play? Not really. There’s plenty of reasons in-game to catch more, some of which have higher thresholds way before - granted they’re optional, but they’re clearly meant to incentivize adjusting to this way of playing.

So we're still using the "It's not a bad way to play because that's what I'm personally ok with it" as an argument?

We could turn that right back around though, dude; not personally liking a way to play doesn’t make it a bad way to play, inherently or objectively or what have you.

—-

And that’s the thing to both of you, subjectivity goes both ways; I can’t invalidate your lack of enjoyment, and I have to acknowledge it as real and equal to the rest of us. You can’t ignore, though, that it seems the majority of players are having fun and enjoying them far more than expected.

I argue more out of a desire to get people to see what I see in the games and to try to help them enjoy it a little more. I don’t want a Pokémon game that current fans can’t enjoy, so I’d like to actually understand whether it’s an issue with a game, a disconnect between the game and some play styles, or something else, and right now it sounds like the second one.

It’s fine if not everyone likes them, but the more, the better. I want people to get good things out of this game, even if they don’t love it and think it’s perfect - not for them to spend $60 and countless hours on something they don’t enjoy anyway, you know?

 

[Ignition]

We could turn that right back around though, dude; not personally liking a way to play doesn’t make it a bad way to play, inherently or objectively or what have you.

—-

And that’s the thing to both of you, subjectivity goes both ways; I can’t invalidate your lack of enjoyment, and I have to acknowledge it as real and equal to the rest of us. You can’t ignore, though, that it seems the majority of players are having fun and enjoying them far more than expected.

I argue more out of a desire to get people to see what I see in the games and to try to help them enjoy it a little more. I don’t want a Pokémon game that current fans can’t enjoy, so I’d like to actually understand whether it’s an issue with a game, a disconnect between the game and some play styles, or something else, and right now it sounds like the second one.

It’s fine if not everyone likes them, but the more, the better. I want people to get good things out of this game, even if they don’t love it and think it’s perfect - not for them to spend $60 and countless hours on something they don’t enjoy anyway, you know?

Woah you're like the new generation incarnation of Einstein. Such a revolutionary idea has never been thought of

Seriously though, I understand that. Your style of playing the game shouldn't be used as an objective way to look at the game. I'm not going to pretend that the majority thinks this is an abomination: I get that. My 2 cents would never get in the way of the general consensus (not that I'd care to but that's besides the point). I've accepted in mid September that the game was not for me but I still had fun with this as a game to play with someone from the current generation of fans. It's nowhere near my ideal Pokémon experience but I did enjoy it as an actual experience.

 

[Bolt the Cat]

As I see it the first Pokemon games released on any system are a proof of concept. Compare XY to USUM on the 3DS, over the years they managed to improve on things. At this point who knows what PK19 will improve upon?

Improve what? Maybe for DP to BW2, but XY to USUM feels relatively stagnant. Also, even as a proof of concept, the first generation game still feels like a significant improvement over the game before it due to them taking advantage of the new hardware improvements and features, LGPE doesn't even do that much. The graphics look about the same as the 3DS games and there's really not much taking advantage of the Switch's improvements (you have co-op and that's pretty much it). Maybe 2019 will do more seeing as it'll be a new generation, but I'm not really seeing the steady improvement in this series. This series feels like it's been stuck in a rut since XY.

 

[PrinceOfFacade]

Hmmm... Interesting. It seems that even Joe thinks LGPE are deeply flawed games, and he defended them a lot before they were released.

The only real flaw in the game is the capture system, which is obscene. Not even Pokémon GO is this bad.

However, this one flaw does not make the entire game one of the most flawed in the series. As usual, Joe is blowing things out of proportion.

 

[Satoshi & Touko]

The only real flaw in the game is the capture system, which is obscene. Not even Pokémon GO is this bad.

However, this one flaw does not make the entire game one of the most flawed in the series. As usual, Joe is blowing things out of proportion.

The trainer customization in this game is an uber flaw as well.

No hat removal
No way to change hairstyle or color
No way to change your eye color
The outfits (despite some looking okay) are more like costumes
Outfits are all pretty much handed to you instead of purchasable from shops.

On the subject though of one of the most flawed games in the series, I can’t really judge since I’m not even buying them.

 

[Bolt the Cat]

The only real flaw in the game is the capture system, which is obscene. Not even Pokémon GO is this bad.

However, this one flaw does not make the entire game one of the most flawed in the series. As usual, Joe is blowing things out of proportion.

Eh, not really. Bad controls can really make a game unplayable and that's something a lot of gamers tend to have a major issue with. There's a reason why Nintendo is the only company to still use motion controls that much whereas Microsoft and Sony have abandoned the Move and Kinect altogether. If they're really as bad as Joe says, I can see a lot of gamers getting frustrated with the capture system and putting the game down.

 

[Dragalge]

Improve what? Maybe for DP to BW2, but XY to USUM feels relatively stagnant. Also, even as a proof of concept, the first generation game still feels like a significant improvement over the game before it due to them taking advantage of the new hardware improvements and features, LGPE doesn't even do that much. The graphics look about the same as the 3DS games and there's really not much taking advantage of the Switch's improvements (you have co-op and that's pretty much it). Maybe 2019 will do more seeing as it'll be a new generation, but I'm not really seeing the steady improvement in this series. This series feels like it's been stuck in a rut since XY.

I just with LGPE's graphics didn't look like ORAS but in HD. Like I think they're pretty but they can do at least a bit more.

And yeah you want your motion controls to be precise as possible. Motion controls not being implemented well is not blowing things out of proportion!

 

[Bolt the Cat]

The trainer customization in this game is an uber flaw as well.

No hat removal
No way to change hairstyle or color
No way to change your eye color
The outfits (despite some looking okay) are more like costumes
Outfits are all pretty much handed to you instead of purchasable from shops.

On the subject though of one of the most flawed games in the series, I can’t really judge since I’m not even buying them.

Now that actually is blowing things out of proportion. Trainer customization is an extra, it's not something essential to playing and enjoying the game. It's disappointing, yes, but you can still actually play the game without being able to dress up your character the way you want. Compare that to the motion control issues, where if the motion controls are so bad that you can't catch Pokemon, it completely ruins the entire experience. Considering you need to catch Pokemon to build your team and now to even level up, it's crucial that that part of the gameplay works correctly.

 

[PrinceOfFacade]

The trainer customization in this game is an uber flaw as well.

No hat removal
No way to change hairstyle or color
No way to change your eye color
The outfits (despite some looking okay) are more like costumes
Outfits are all pretty much handed to you instead of purchasable from shops.

On the subject though of one of the most flawed games in the series, I can’t really judge since I’m not even buying them.

The customization is not a flaw; it's just a downgrade, and a reasonable one.

Remember, flaws are objective, not subjective. The catching system is actually flawed because the mechanic is not consistent with its criteria for success. That is an issue within the programming, and is thus a flaw.

The customization is minimal because the game was never really meant have it in the first place, as the game is meant to be as close to Yellow as possible. I was actually surprised to see trainer customization, as I did not expect it.

Eh, not really. Bad controls can really make a game unplayable and that's something a lot of gamers tend to have a major issue with. There's a reason why Nintendo is the only company to still use motion controls that much whereas Microsoft and Sony have abandoned the Move and Kinect altogether. If they're really as bad as Joe says, I can see a lot of gamers getting frustrated with the capture system and putting the game down.

The capture system is indeed annoying as all hell, and the unequal distribution of berries to PokéBalls does not help. Still, the game itself is still a delight.

I don't think the capture system is enough to make most players throw the game away, especially those who will be catching consistently (the more you catch, the easier it gets). However, I do hope this issue is fixed for the next Let's GO game, because a repetitive issue of that magnitude is likely to deter me.

 

[Sαpphire]

Eh, not really. Bad controls can really make a game unplayable and that's something a lot of gamers tend to have a major issue with. There's a reason why Nintendo is the only company to still use motion controls that much whereas Microsoft and Sony have abandoned the Move and Kinect altogether. If they're really as bad as Joe says, I can see a lot of gamers getting frustrated with the capture system and putting the game down.

They’re not all that bad in my experience - not ideal at all, though. The worst is playing with a single joy-con; it’s awkward and never seems to throw where the controller moves. Playing with the Pokeball Plus is a lot easier and smoother somehow, though you’ll need a few minutes to adjust to the small size. Playing handheld is a breeze and way easier, even when you have to move a little. Just my assessment, but they’re not a disaster - I feel like the controls need some tweaking in an update though, to make them more fluid and precise. It’s an execution issue - not that the idea in the first place is the perfect either.