Thoughts on the Upcoming Pokemon Switch Game?

[PrinceOfFacade]

...
I'm out.

You may not be able to see it, but I am laughing so hard right now. lol

 

[WhiteBlair]

Where I was wrong was assuming that the fanbase would behave like smart consumers and look for bang for their buck, that's the way the sales should've turned out if they did. You just don't spend $300 on a console for one game that you're going to play for a week and set down. Likewise you don't spend $60 on a game that has the same amount of content as a F2P mobile game because you can either play the game F2P or buy a $60 game that offers more. It doesn't matter how good the game is, if you're a smart consumer wanting to get maximum entertainment for minimum price, you'd be looking at alternatives. That's the fault in the fanbase's logic and why this is more about the fans making bad decisions instead of me being wrong.

You are wrong.

An objective definition of smart consuming is to not to throw away your money for unnecessary products deemed by yourself. But, the 'unnecessary product' part is entirely subjective. For you, LGPE might be one. For many of us however, it deserve its price. I would choose LGPE any day over ORAS, SM and USUM.

A full $250 for 3DS wasn't spent for XY alone when it was launched. Pokémon justified the price you paid by releasing three more titles after. Don't you think you are underestimating people and putting them in a stupid position when they also clearly bought their Switch having the highly-anticipated Generation 8 games in mind? Your example suits for the customers paying full price for Nintendo Wii U in 2016 to get Pokkén Tournament, knowing the device was in end of its life-cycle and the port to the Switch was inevitable.

 

[Dragalge]

So games in Australia can range anywhere between $10 to $70 more than the US price with no discernable reasoning behind which games become more expensive than others. Nintendo for the most part is consistent but as someone with multiple consoles I don't even bother looking at price tags anymore (unless there's a sale. The same logic applies for sale prices so you can sometimes get $120 games for like $30).



That's like talking about a movie without having seen it...

I do agree with you on the Smash thing, but I don't think it's a good example. Smash 3ds and Smash U are considered 2 completely different games by Nintendo (4 and 5 respectively).



Pfft oh honey... Honey no. When has a shrinking ring ever meant "biggest=best"?

He's not a pot of honey he's Bolt the Cat. This is a pot of honey: https://previews.123rf.com/images/d...t-of-honey-isolated-on-a-white-background.jpg

Don't go calling people honey because pots of honey will not nor will they ever be sentient.

I'll be honest in that the pricing could be lower despite $60 being the price to probably profit the games the most. $40 wouldn't be too bad of a price for a newcomer to try out the franchise. Maybe $30.

 

[Bolt the Cat]

So games in Australia can range anywhere between $10 to $70 more than the US price with no discernable reasoning behind which games become more expensive than others. Nintendo for the most part is consistent but as someone with multiple consoles I don't even bother looking at price tags anymore (unless there's a sale. The same logic applies for sale prices so you can sometimes get $120 games for like $30).

Well that's even more dysfunctional then. The Australian economy clearly has major issues if they're arbitrarily marking up games like that.

That's like talking about a movie without having seen it...

You can do that. Just because you haven't seen it doesn't mean you have nothing to say about it. But either way, talking about a piece of entertainment shouldn't be your primary motivation for consuming it.

You are wrong.

An objective definition of smart consuming is to not to throw away your money for unnecessary products deemed by yourself. But, the 'unnecessary product' part is entirely subjective. For you, LGPE might be one. For many of us however, it deserve its price. I would choose LGPE any day over ORAS, SM and USUM.

A full $250 for 3DS wasn't spent for XY alone when it was launched. Pokémon justified the price you paid by releasing three more titles after. Don't you think you are underestimating people and putting them in a stupid position when they also clearly bought their Switch having the highly-anticipated Generation 8 games in mind? Your example suits for the customers paying full price for Nintendo Wii U in 2016 to get Pokkén Tournament, knowing the device was in end of its life-cycle and the port to the Switch was inevitable.

No, smart consuming is also looking for an appropriate quantity for the price, and quantity is objective. So that aspect of consuming is objectively bad consuming.

 

[Prof. SALTY]

Well that's even more dysfunctional then. The Australian economy clearly has major issues if they're arbitrarily marking up games like that.

I don't disagree. Our economy is absolutely terrible. Everything is more expensive here even when adjusting for conversion rates. But we also get paid a lot so it sort of evens out. I'm living off minimum wage currently and still make ~$1,500 a fortnight. This is getting seriously off topic though.

You can do that. Just because you haven't seen it doesn't mean you have nothing to say about it. But either way, talking about a piece of entertainment shouldn't be your primary motivation for consuming it.

It's not the primary motivation, but it is important to me. I personally don't think a person's opinion holds any weight if they haven't consumed the media they're trying to discuss. That's just... I dunno, fake I guess? I can't really think of a word right now but if I think of a better one I'll edit it in.

 

[Bolt the Cat]

It's not the primary motivation, but it is important to me. I personally don't think a person's opinion holds any weight if they haven't consumed the media they're trying to discuss. That's just... I dunno, fake I guess? I can't really think of a word right now but if I think of a better one I'll edit it in.

Not really. You need to be able to form an opinion on the media before deciding you want to consume it in the first place, so saying a person's opinion doesn't hold weight is faulty.

 

[BCVM22]

I'll be honest in that the pricing could be lower despite $60 being the price to probably profit the games the most. $40 wouldn't be too bad of a price for a newcomer to try out the franchise. Maybe $30.

I too would love to pay less money for entertainment I enjoy. But there was never a point at which this was remotely any kind of realistic possibility.

 

[Prof. SALTY]

Not really. You need to be able to form an opinion on the media before deciding you want to consume it in the first place, so saying a person's opinion doesn't hold weight is faulty.

I very much disagree. Wanting to watch the movie/play the game is not the issue at hand. You can choose to watch or play whatever you want, however if you want to talk about the movie or game in any detail and want to state your opinion on it, you need to experience it.

 

[Minedreigon]

To put this into perspective, I think £45 is a ridiculous price for HGSS. That’s how much I see every copy of HGSS go for preowned. And I wouldn’t think they’re worth that if they were new games, despite the fact that HGSS are jam packed with content. So you maybe can see why I think £50 for these stripped down titles is absolutely ridiculous.

The whole notion of “that’s how much switch games cost” just has to end when there’s so clearly variation in price in console titles for literally every console.

 

[Prof. SALTY]

To put this into perspective, I think £45 is a ridiculous price for HGSS. That’s how much I see every copy of HGSS go for preowned. And I wouldn’t think they’re worth that if they were new games, despite the fact that HGSS are jam packed with content. So you maybe can see why I think £50 for these stripped down titles is absolutely ridiculous.

The whole notion of “that’s how much switch games cost” just has to end when there’s so clearly variation in price in console titles for literally every console.

Maybe that's because you're stingy

 

[BCVM22]

To put this into perspective, I think £45 is a ridiculous price for HGSS. That’s how much I see every copy of HGSS go for preowned. And I wouldn’t think they’re worth that if they were new games, despite the fact that HGSS are jam packed with content. So you maybe can see why I think £50 for these stripped down titles is absolutely ridiculous.

For some reason, you're using secondary market prices to try and make your point. You say you see preowned copies of HG/SS selling for £45? That equates to about $58 in American dollars (which I'll use going forward so as to better illustrate my point). A $58 price tag for HG/SS is ridiculous, I agree, as those titles retailed for $40 when they were new. If you were to come across a used copy of LGP/E for $87 (the same markup - 45% over original retail price), that would similarly be ridiculous. Hunt on Amazon Marketplace or eBay for used copies of other titles from previous generations and you'll find similarly ridiculous asking prices for older games.

But none of those prices are what the games retail(ed) for. HG/SS cost $40, as all 3DS titles of any note did when they were new. LGP/E cost $60, as all major Switch, PS4 and Xbox One do in their current new release state. So to say "£45 is a ridiculous price for HGSS" is completely true, but it's also a misleading statement, because that was never the retail price. No one involved in making the game ever asked you to spend £45 on it.

Which brings us to our final point, which is that...

The whole notion of “that’s how much switch games cost” just has to end when there’s so clearly variation in price in console titles for literally every console.

...no, there isn't. $60 is the standard price for any major release on any of the three consoles right now. There's no variation to be had at retail. Secondhand prices are set by individual sellers or by secondhand businesses like GameStop, and for which there is no standard at all. So to say "$60 is how much Switch games cost" is a flat truth absent any flex or variation for any major release.

 

[WhiteBlair]

No, smart consuming is also looking for an appropriate quantity for the price, and quantity is objective. So that aspect of consuming is objectively bad consuming.

Quantity can't always be considered under objective term. If you can afford the price, it is down to the quality of the product you look for which is entirely subjective. If TPCi and Nintendo put a quarterly-goal to achieve a specific quantity of LGPE to be sold at the end of Q4 (Nov-Dec.) and achieved it, now that is objective.

You deem LGPE as an upgraded model of mobile game graphics to Switch and since you have your opinion set on that one, it is pointless to talk about the measures of quality and quantity. Even if they were announced for $50, you weren't going to pay for it. Economically, it was just impossible for these titles to be released for a market price of $35-40.

Selling 3M units in 3 days is objectively an achievement expressed by Reggie Fils-Aime. If you are a fan of the franchise; loved the graphics and the content, the price is justifiable compared to the other Switch titles thus you make a decision with your wallet whether you'd like to afford it or not. And, that is subjective: Your opinion and your decision. Expecting a full-HD main-series of Pokémon game at the cost of $30-40 is so abstract.

 

[BCVM22]

Even if they were announced for $50, you weren't going to pay for it. Economically, it was just impossible for these titles to be released for a market price of $35-40.

This can’t be said enough.

I would never provide the slightest bit of commentary on anyone’s individual financial situation. We all need to eat and have a roof over our head, and video games are expensive. I would never make light of anyone who chooses a load of groceries over buying a Pokémon game. With that being said, LGP/E are Switch titles, which retail for $60 American, just as previous entries in the franchise have retailed for $30/$40 American, identical in price to contemporary titles for their respective systems. There was never any version of reality that would have had LGP/E retail for any price less than $60, just as there was never any version of reality that would have US/UM retail for less than $40 or Emerald for less than $30 and so on.

That reality makes the price point little more than a false line in the sand for people for whom it was never actually a matter of money and who were never going to do anything but shun these games. The ostensible intent is to claim “I would buy these games, if they retailed for a different price,” knowing that the latter was never going to happen. “I would buy the games, but only under false conditions that I know full well don’t and won’t exist.”

If the impossible did happen and the games did retail for a lower price point, it would have been some other reason for discarding the games. It’s a hollow excuse that I guess to some just sounds better than some version of “I strongly dislike these games and have no intention of ever playing them.”

 

[Prof. SALTY]

The reason Pokemon games are rarely seen under a certain amount even secondhand is due to Nintendo's price lock. Games are locked to a specific minimum which causes people on ebay to misread this as mrket value making them more expensive. Strangely, this doesn't apply to the Japanese copies. I have a number of Japanese pokemon games I bought while living over there for way below the English secondhand price.

So if you want HGSS cheaper, learn Japanese.

 

[Ducolamia]

I think using the HGSS games are a bit misleading to use as evidence when it comes to console prices. We have to remember that originally every copy of HGSS came with a Pokewalker. Which, of course is going to jack up it's price. It was a standard feature( or gimmick) for the game for a long time and I remember that it didn't go away until the 3ds section of stores started to become more popular. You're better off buying it used and getting the game case separate. Buying a full price HGSS game is expensive, but I understand it was more of a special case because it came with an item. It's like including the pokeball plus with lgpe as the standard full price when in reality you can buy the game without it. While with HGSS you couldn't for a long time.

I think people are really overthinking the price here. LGPE is $60 because the game is a console game which is more expensive to make. Its like saying Wii games should be less expensive than the DS games that came out at the time because you don't like the price jump. It's really just standard industry practice at this point.

I highly suggest to wait for a price drop if you don't like the price. At this point it's probably the only way to be satisfied.

 

[Kein]

You can rent the game from Flexshopper for $3 a week. You probably aren't going to play it for over 3 weeks if you're on the fence, so it's a very good deal.

HGSS did cost $40 originally with the Pokewalker included, but the Poke Ball Plus can be used for Go and they've said it will be used for future games. It's also better than the Pokewalker for training (in a rather cheap way), so I can sort of see why so many people bought it. I mean I don't, but I can respect it.

 

[Bolt the Cat]

But none of those prices are what the games retail(ed) for. HG/SS cost $40, as all 3DS titles of any note did when they were new. LGP/E cost $60, as all major Switch, PS4 and Xbox One do in their current new release state. So to say "£45 is a ridiculous price for HGSS" is completely true, but it's also a misleading statement, because that was never the retail price. No one involved in making the game ever asked you to spend £45 on it.

Which brings us to our final point, which is that...



...no, there isn't. $60 is the standard price for any major release on any of the three consoles right now. There's no variation to be had at retail. Secondhand prices are set by individual sellers or by secondhand businesses like GameStop, and for which there is no standard at all. So to say "$60 is how much Switch games cost" is a flat truth absent any flex or variation for any major release.

False. While many Switch games are $60, not all of them are. Captain Toad and Sonic Forces were both $40. So that's not an ironclad rule, there's definitely exceptions.

But if you're so insistent on sticking with the $60 price point, there's an alternative solution here, just include more content. The price itself isn't the problem. It's bang for the buck. You don't see people complaining about a game like BotW or Mario Odyssey being $60 because those actually have enough polish and substance to justify the price. LGPE, not so much. To put it in terms of the metaphor Hayashida used in that Super Mario 3D Land interview I cited a few pages back, the issue is that Game Freak is selling a hamburger game at a Manchu Han price. It shouldn't be hard to see why people are complaining about that.

Quantity can't always be considered under objective term. If you can afford the price, it is down to the quality of the product you look for which is entirely subjective. If TPCi and Nintendo put a quarterly-goal to achieve a specific quantity of LGPE to be sold at the end of Q4 (Nov-Dec.) and achieved it, now that is objective.

No, quantity is always objective. Quantity is a concrete measurement of a particular trait, it's not up to personal taste.

You deem LGPE as an upgraded model of mobile game graphics to Switch and since you have your opinion set on that one, it is pointless to talk about the measures of quality and quantity.

Also not an opinion, as the graphics are largely similar to 3DS games and the content is FAR inferior to other console games.

Even if they were announced for $50, you weren't going to pay for it.

Because $50 isn't much of a discount in the first place. Sell it for $20-$40 and then we'll talk.

Economically, it was just impossible for these titles to be released for a market price of $35-40.

And you know this how?

 

[Sαpphire]

Not sure I’ll be able to accomplish much where so many others have tried, but whatever, here we go.

False. While many Switch games are $60, not all of them are. Captain Toad and Sonic Forces were both $40. So that's not an ironclad rule, there's definitely exceptions.

But if you're so insistent on sticking with the $60 price point, there's an alternative solution here, just include more content. The price itself isn't the problem. It's bang for the buck. You don't see people complaining about a game like BotW or Mario Odyssey being $60 because those actually have enough polish and substance to justify the price. LGPE, not so much. To put it in terms of the metaphor Hayashida used in that Super Mario 3D Land interview I cited a few pages back, the issue is that Game Freak is selling a hamburger game at a Manchu Han price. It shouldn't be hard to see why people are complaining about that.

Captain Toad and Sonic Forces are not in this franchise. Captain Toad was quite literally a four year old port. Captain Toad and Sonic Forces sold significantly less even at such prices. Clearly, they’re not comparable.

BOTW and Odyssey, arguably, have different quantities and qualities of content from each other, depending on perspective. To many - most, in fact, if that’s not been clear to you for dozens of post - find LGPE to have a quantity and quality of content that justifies the same dollar value.

What you think of these things doesn’t matter; it’s what the largest number of consumers think that matters. You’re attempting to make your opinion an objective standard. It’s not one.

No, quantity is always objective. Quantity is a concrete measurement of a particular trait, it's not up to personal taste.

No. The quantity of content in this franchise depends heavily on repetition and the amount of it an individual consumer can or will take part in. But by all means, please provide measurements and quantify the content in this game compared to others - I’m eager to see such numbers.

Also not an opinion, as the graphics are largely similar to 3DS games and the content is FAR inferior to other console games.

Uh... yes, this is an opinion. None of what you have just said is objective.

Because $50 isn't much of a discount in the first place. Sell it for $20-$40 and then we'll talk.

These were never going to be less than the price of literally any game in the series, and were never going to be the price of games on a seven year old handheld-only console. You know this. We all know this. It has always been known.

And you know this how?

Logic and reason.

 

[Prof. SALTY]

False. While many Switch games are $60, not all of them are. Captain Toad and Sonic Forces were both $40. So that's not an ironclad rule, there's definitely exceptions.

FUN FACT! Sonic Forces was originally selling for $69.95 here. Still less than LGPE, but only by $10.

Also not an opinion, as the graphics are largely similar to 3DS games and the content is FAR inferior to other console games.

It astounds me that you think those graphics could be even close to replicated on a 3DS...

 

[PrinceOfFacade]

Uh... yes, this is an opinion. None of what you have just said is objective.

You'd think this would be well understood by now.