Threat list counters

[blackrose]

This thread can make countering a little bit easier, but you have to take into account different movesets.


Threat List

Azelf - Heatran works quite well. Don't forget Houndoom, the nearly perfect Azelf counter when Hp Fighting is not in use. This applies more to Houndoom since Resttalk Heatran can survive Hp Fightings pretty well anyways.
Breloom - Celebi counters Breloom pretty well, but I guess nothing likes being Leech Seeded.
Celebi - Once again, Heatran is a great Celebi counter. Cresselia completely walls Celebi as long as it has no CM. Houndoom works well against Celebi provided the Celebi is standard spread.
Dragonite - Not really, but whatever counters Chomp counters Dragonite. Basically nothing, but Cresselia, Bulky Gyarados, Suicune, Hippowodon, and Relaxed Bronzongs are good at this. Gliscor can also work as well, but can be 2HKO'ed by CB Adamant Outrage.
Dugtrio - STAB moves can usually 2HKO.
Electivire - (not specs)bulky grounds, (special version) Hippowdon, Donphan, Swampert, Uxie, Cresselia, EQ Bronzong (can counter physical versions)
Gallade - Not much counters Gallade due to it's access to SD, every Status, and Fighting/Dark coverage along with access to Ice Punch and Leaf Blade. Scarf Moltres, Zapdos, and Skarmory are your best bets.
Garchomp - See Dragonite, has no real counters. Cloyster comes close, but loses to ChainChomp. Same with Bronzong.
Gengar - Weavile can work, but Bronzong, Jirachi, Heatran, Spiritomb, etc. are what should be used.
Gyarados - I would remove Breloom because Gyarados can taunt Breloom out of using Spore or Leech Seed. I haven't seen many Stone Edge Brelooms, and Thunderpunch isn't used due to legality issues.
Heatran - Blissey, SpDef Milotic, if heatran has Hp ice then Swampert works
Heracross - Gliscor, Weezing ( with Flamethrower ), Dusknoir ( with Fire punch ), Zapdos (avoid stone edge), Salamence(avoid stone edge), Gyarados(avoid stone edge), Nidoqueen (aerial ace)
Infernape - Vaporeon, Tentacruel. Calm Zapdos does almost as well as Scarf Moltres at countering Infernape.
Physical Versions - Hippowdon, Donphan, Swampert, Dusknoir, Cresselia, Uxie
Mixed Versions - Dragons do good if it lacks HP ice, Gyarados does fine if it lacks T-Punch
Jirachi - garchomp, anything that can take hits and can use EQ.
Kingdra - Are you kidding me?? There is NO way Heatran or any Dragons will like to switch in on Kingdra. A boosted Surf or a Draco Meteor will take care of them easily. Hp Electric Vaporeon does well against Kingdra.
Lucario - Spiritomb (HP fighting)
physical version - Gliscor, Weezing, Hippowdon, Gyarados, Selamence, (if it lacks HP ice)
special version - Zapdos(avoid HP ice), Blisseyphysical version - Gliscor, Weezing, Hippowdon, Gyarados, Selamence, (if it lacks HP ice)
special version - Zapdos(avoid HP ice), NO BLISSEY DOES NOT COUNTER SPECSLUKE WHEN IT IS 2HKOED BY AURA SPHERE.
Machamp - Dusknoir works quite well, it can Wow Machamp assuming that it is No Guard. Either way, Dusknoir is immune to his STAB.
Mamoswine - Bronzong with levitate is the best, Skarmory, Uxie and Cresselia work too.
Metagross - defensive Moltres
Physical Version - Hippowdon, Swampert, Donphan
mixed version - Bronzong, Gliscor
Ninjask - roar away befor it sets up, ice shard
PorygonZ - Blissey, Bronzong (but can't take specs version)
Rhyperior - Hippowdon, Bronzong (resists but can't do much in return), Claydol, defensive Breloom, defensive Celebi, Tangrowth, Torterra, swampert and anything quicker than it that can come in on a powerful Ground or Rock move and scare it off
Roserade - Heatran is immune to Toxic Spikes and in most cases resists all of Roserades moves.
Salamence - Specsmence is countered by Blissey, Mixmence is countered by Heatran, and Bronzong can stop physical Salamence. Although I do agree that Salamence has no real counters. A little Stealth Rocks goes a long way here.
Slaking - Hippowdon, Celebi, Gliscor. Bronzong, Skarmory or anything with protect/ substitue and recovery will work
Sceptile - Celebi, faster pokemon like weavile
Scizor - Moltres, Heatran, etc.
Snorlax - Spiritomb can set up on Snorlax with CM or NP, put non-rest versions out of commision with Wow, and beat him with HP Ftg. This is a little too specific though.
Starmie - Special Defensive CB Tar will survive most Starmie hits as well. Fyi that is 252 Hp /216 Sp. Def/40 Atk with a Careful Nature.
Suicune - Don't forget Vaporeon, who can pHaze and wall Crocune. May lose in a stall war though.
Togekiss - Zapdos, CM Bliss can stand up to this guy pretty well.
Tyranitar - Hitmontop works well here in my experience as long as it carries Intimidate.
Weavile - Bronzong, Metagross, Hiriyama, Forrestress, Hitmontop, mach punch
Yanmega - Resttalk Heatran does best against every version bar Modest Tinted Lens Specsmega. Blissey can wall Yanmega if it doesn't run Reversal, which may not OHKO Blissey anyways.
Zapdos - Tyranitar is very good at this, Magnezone can scare away and Raikou just sets up on it. Of course, Blissey works, but even she can be Pressure Stalled out of Softboiled and/or 2HKOed by Thunderbolt after 3 Metal Sounds unless there is a significant investment of special defense ev's.





if you know the best counters for these threat please post

 

[Black Murder Heavangelon]

I know a few that counters some of them, but it'd help if you put these in abc order.

 

[Kebilito]

Tyranitar can be countered by Bulk Up Machamp.

 

[Deathconsciousness]

this is something many people need help with, like me.
What are the best pokemon to counter major OU threats.


Threat List

Tyranitar - Hippowdon is the most solid counter to the all Physical version as it resists Rock STAB doesn't take too much from Crunch due to huge defence and HP and has Slack Off, but anything that resists both it's STAB attacks and don't take too much from Earthquake do an ample job - Machamp, Hariyama, Steelix, Donphan, Tangrowth (due to sheer walling and Grass STAB) Lucario (in the right situation), Magnezone (same again), Fighting/Ground/VERY bulky waters. As far as mixed sets go, Hariyama is the best counter. Blocking Rock, Dark, Ice and Fire attacks, MASSIVE HP to help block attacks, and with a huge attack, it leaves more EVs spare to dump in defences.

Rhyperior - Hippowdon again being a decent counter, though he will not like CB STAB Earthquakes, Bronzong as he resists Ground and Rock (though can't do much in return), Claydol (lol), defencive Breloom, defencive Celebi, Tangrowth, Torterra, and anything quicker than it that can come in on a powerful Ground or Rock move and scare it off (like Swampert coming in on a Rock attack for example).

Gyarados - Celebi is the best counter. Tangrowth, defencive Breloom, Suicune, Slowbro, (with HP Electric), Cresselia, and anything that resists it's Water STAB that isn't weak to whatever other attack(s) it carries.

Infernape - Starmie, Gyarados (Thunderpunch-less versions), Salamence [+ Dragonite] (HP Ice-less versions), Cresselia, Hippowdon (all physical versions), Dusknoir (kind of when it has Earthquake and Shadow Sneak), Shuckle in a Sandstorm, SDef based Armaldo in a Sandstorm.

there are the first few, cannot be bothered to post any more.

 

[blackrose]

anyone else know more good counters for these pkmn?

 

[CAY]

Humm....... well, i dont think theres a counter for everything, The metagame is always changing, lets take Lucarios example, 1 month ago there was only Specs version, and Swords Dance version, Swords Dance being the most common one, so hey everyone was sure they get Gliscor in their team, because it was the "Perfect counter" and guess what, 1 month after, SDLuke is probably the second most dangerous sweeper, Garchomp being the first, why, what happened to Gliscor... i´ll tell you, HP ice, among with some Evs nailed him, half the pokemon players relied on Gliscor to counter Luke, but, humm, batty was being OHKOd by HP ice, and then Luke could sweep freely, the batty isnt too handsome now lolz,

this happens for the following "Threads" as well as others, they are constantly changing, they have insane stat boosting moves, great resistances, abilities, and stats:

-Garchomp
-Lucario
-Salamence
-Tyranitar
-Dragonite
-Infernape
-Mamoswine
-Metagross

These in special, have wide moovepools, great base stats, and their weaknesses can be covered easily, someone said Bulk Up Machamp and even Magnezone can counter Tyranitar, leta get some calcs:

CBTyranitar´s Stone Edge, on max HP and Def Machamp does between 40 and 47% damage, paired with SS which negates leftovers, and Stealth rock damage, means theres a high chance Machamp will be 2HKOd, besides, Tyranitar probably wont stay in, it will come back later, and guess what, your "Counter" cant take another hit.

Magnezone, i cant think of a way magnezone can even 3HKO Tyranitar, with the Sand Storm boosting his already high Special Defence, and Tyranitar usually having Focus punch or Fire Blast, in case its a DD version, he will be faster for sure and EQ will KO Magnezone.

So theres no thing such as 100% safe Counter, unlss you know at least the 4 moves, your opponents "threat" packs, you cant be sure of what pokemon you want to switch in, i´ll leave some pokemon that are usually counters, but as i said, they may fail if you didnt guessed right your opponents moveset.

Azelf - Blissey, Safest counter, unless Azelf Explodes or You let it Nasty Plot, it wont take down Bliss

Breloom - Anything that resists its STAB moves and has something super effective against, lets say Weezing, Uxie, Cresselia obviously you need to avoid the Spore.

Celebi - Well, humm, Celebi is usually a wall / Tank, but in case you want the safe KO, Choice Band Tyranitar with Pursuit, or Heracross with Megahorn / Pursuit will work, though, any Bug move will cause masive damage, lets say the popular U-Turn.

Dragonite - No real counter, but anything faster with an Ice move will usually make it to switch, or get KOd

Dugtrio - Dugtrio is too Fragile to take any attack, usually anything Stabed or Super effective is more than enough to 2HKO

Electivire - Bulky Grounds in case its not a Specs / Special version, Hippowdon, Donphan and Swampert work really good, Uxie and Cress work too.

Gallade - Gengar is usually the easiest counter, though, avoid Thunder wave, and Choice Banded Shadow Sneak

Garchomp - No Real Counter, bulky pokemon with an ice attack, should survive one hit, and posibly KO, if not, you´ll need a revenge killer, Cresselia, Swampert, Hippowdon, Gliscor and Donphan, usually can take a hit, and do great damage with Ice Beam, Avalanche, Ice Fang and Ice Shard respectively

Gengar - anything faster and with decent attack will most likely KO, for a safe KO anything faster and with pursuit will work, Weavile, Heracross work good.

Gyarados - Celebi is the best counter. Tangrowth, Suicune, Slowbro, (with HP Electric), Cresselia, Vaporeon (HP Electric).

Heatran - Blissey works good, as long as you avoid Explosion and Metal Sound, if Heatran is using HP Ice Swampert works good.

Heracross - Gliscor, Weezing ( with Flamethrower ), Dusknoir ( with Fire punch ) and Zapdos, Salamence, Gyarados Work Good, Though the last three need to avoid Stone Edge.


Infernape - Starmie, Gyarados (Thunderpunch-less versions), Salamence (HP Ice-less versions), dragonite(HP Ice-less versions), Cresselia, Hippowdon (all physical versions), Dusknoir (kind of when it has Earthquake and Shadow Sneak), Shuckle in a Sandstorm, SDef based Armaldo in a Sandstorm.

Well this is what i mean lol, unless you have at least an idea of what kind of Infernape it is, you can counter it:

Physical Versions - Hippowdon, Donphan, Swampert, Dusknoir, Cresselia, Uxie do fine.

Mixed Versions - Dragons do good if it lacks HP ice, Gyarados does fine if it lacks T-Punch.


Jirachi - Since its more of Tank / Wall, anything that can take a hit good enough, most likely Zen Headbutt / Thunder, and gets Earthquake works, the most common being Garchomp.

Kingdra - Blissey, Bronzong and Vaporeon can take the hits fine, once rain is over, anything with choice specs or band and a strong enough move will most likely 2HKO, any Dragon attack will KO most likely though, things like Heatran (Dragon Pulse), Dragonite/Garchomp (Outrage/Dragon Claw) and Specsmence wont have trouble KOing.

Lucario - No safe counter unless you know move set, Gliscor, Weezing and Hippowdon work for Physical versions that lack HP ice, Gyarados and Salamence work too, For Special versions, Zapdos, and Blissey work fine, though Zapdos needs to avoid Specs HP Ice

Machamp - Celebi, Cresselia, Slowbro/Slowking, Work fine, Hippowdon and Donphan can take some hits fine, but since they lack resistance to dynamic punch, continuos attacks + confusion may bring them down.

Mamoswine - Bronzong with levitate is by far the best counter, Skarmory and Uxie/Cresselia work good too.

Metagross - Hippowdon, Swampert, and Donphan work somehow for physical versions, Mixed Version is kinda hard to switch in, but Bronzong and Gliscor work fine.

Ninjask - just Roar it away before it set ups.

PorygonZ - Blissey Bronzong take it as nothing, though Bronzong cant take on Specs Versions.

Rhyperior - Hippowdon, Bronzong (resists but can't do much in return), Claydol, defencive Breloom, defencive Celebi, Tangrowth, Torterra, swampert and anything quicker than it that can come in on a powerful Ground or Rock move and scare it off
Roserade - Blissey

Salamence - Unless you know move set, theres no real counter nor safe switch in.

Slaking - Something with protect/substitute or a recovery move will shut it off, Hippowdon, Celebi and Gliscor, can take hits somehow fine, and recover the damage.

I`ll get onto the last ones later, of course my counters are somewhat incolmplete and is not a full analisis, its just some intro lol, onto pokemon that can take some hits and counter usual movesets.

 

[Danbaru's]

I started writing this comprehensive around a month ago, but abandoned it because I didn't think people actually needed it. I'll post the first few pages here and see what everyone thinks.

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Two months ago or so, some random person said that it was impossible to counter all OU threats. As true as that may be, there’s no excuse for not being able to counter the prominent threats in OU. Most people here can’t even beat Heatran. I’m all for Serebii’s CRMT to step it up a notch, but stupidity is in the way of that. This guide includes all (well, most because I may have missed out some) counters to the threats you will see in OU, and also what doesn’t counter these threats. Smogon analyses has a little of this but there’s no doubt they’ve missed out some key issues. This, I hope, helps you to see what your team can or cannot do, and as such adjust it accordingly. I have also included the necessary details and calculations for your reference, just to save you all some time. From now onward, I don’t think there should be anymore excuses for having crap/ non-outstanding teams.

The technical definition of a counter can be found in Exiled Sicilian’s guide.

I have listed the threats in alphabetical order but I think we’ll go over a little of the basics.

Choiced Pokemon and Switch-Ins

Everyone knows Choiced Pokemon can be beat out by prediction. As long as your team has the appropriate resists for the threats main STAB move(s), and preferably something that can take the last few moves well, you can easily keep said threat at bay provided you have adequate support i.e. Wish. Say for example that I don’t have a solid Heracross counter in my team, but if this team consists of Pokemon that will draw Close Combat from a Heracross and I incidentally have a Ghost, e.g. even one as frail as Gengar, some Sandstorm and some entry hazards such as Toxic Spikes, that CBHeracross won’t be much of a threat. It will have to switch out due to the fact that it cannot touch my Gengar while it is locked into Close Combat. Combine that with gradual damage, the Heracross won’t survive for more than, say four turns. Even if your opponent wises up after the first or second time your Gengar switches in, the damage it has accumulated is too much for it to keep going. No one is going to predict a Ghost switch in the very first time unless you’ve been very unsubtle, hence the use of Choice prediction. That Heracross will at most kill one member of your team then it will die. This is not what I would call much of a threat.

Another example is when my team can be beat by every one of Heatran’s moves, even my Blissey, because that Heatran has Explosion. But wait! I have a Heatran myself! This Heatran can easily take Fire Blast and Explosion (and HP [Ice], while we’re at it). Sure it loses to Earth Power, but no opponent is going to use it for the on-off chance that you have a Heatran. Your opponent isn’t God. He doesn’t know what your team is, unless you’ve once again been very unsubtle or he/ she has seen it before. Therefore you can easily switch in Heatran to take these hits or force your opponent’s out. As long as your team doesn’t beg for Earth Powers, SpecsHeatran is more or less removed as a threat.

This is followed up by one last principle, whether or not a threat can switch in easily. The aforementioned Heatran will also find it difficult to find gaps to switch in if each of my Pokemon have a threatening move, notably Earthquake/ Hydro Pump. If my team needs assurance against Garchomp, then having threatening moves on my Pokemon such as HP [Ice]/ Ice Beam/ Dragon Claw will deter it from switching in or performing a sweep. Whether or not a Pokemon poses a large threat is also affected by its ability to switch in safely, so if it cannot switch in without possibly sustaining heavy damage, you’re mostly safe against it.

Stat-ups Switch-ins

Starmie can counter Swords Dance versions of Garchomp because it can switch in on the boost, outspeed it and kill with Ice Beam. Basically all Pokemon employing stat-ups can be beat this way. So technically, you could switch an Infernape in on a DDTar and outspeed it while threatening with Close Combat and call this a counter, but it’s definitely risky.

Now that these issues are done and over with, I’ll get this guide started in alphabetical order.

Aerodactyl

Aerodactyl@Choice Band
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 4 HP/ 252 Atk/ 252 Spd
-Stone Edge
-Earthquake
-Ice Fang/ Crunch/ Fire Fang/ Double-Edge/ Pursuit/ Aerial Ace
-Ice Fang/ Crunch/ Fire Fang/ Double-Edge/ Pursuit/ Aerial Ace

Adamant CBAerodactyl is the only relatively fearsome variant.

Hippowdon is your first counter, taking only a maximum of 31% from CB Ice Fang.

Relaxed Bronzong with 176 Def EVs takes 41% at most from CB Fire Fang and can OHKO with Gyro Ball. Sassy ones with only 80 Def EVs, however, take 49% at most from Fire Fang and while can technically counter Aerodactyl, is a little shaky because it will not be easy to heal Bronzong for later use if it has like 10% HP left.

244 HP/ 12 Def Adamant Rhyperior is also shaky because it can take as much as 51% from CB Earthquake, but it can easily take anything else (CB Ice Fang only does 28%) and KO back with Stone Edge. 252 HP/ 216 Def Impish Rhyperior only takes 39% from CB Earthquake and is thus very safe.

Impish 76 HP/ 252 Def Hariyama takes only 40% at most from Earthquake and can hurt Aerodactyl a lot in return, though the occasional Aerial Ace, rare as they are, will hurt.

Impish 252 HP/ 176 Def Machamp takes 43% at most from Earthquake and is similar to Hariyama.

Hitmontop can take a lot with Intimidate but needs Stone Edge to do significant damage.

Sandslash takes up to 40% from Ice Fang but can only 2HKO with Stone Edge.

Donphan takes 34% from CB Ice Fang, but cannot 2HKO with Ice Shard unless with Stealth Rock support, which isn’t even guaranteed. It is therefore advised to always take ~40 Atk EVs on Donphan which can even help against Garchomp.

Swampert takes 43% at most from Earthquake and can safely OHKO with Hydro Pump as long as it has around 56 SAtk EVs, Relaxed.

Suicune takes 44% at most from CB Stone Edge, but cannot OHKO with Surf assuming 0 SAtk EVs unless Aerodactyl has already taken ~20% damage.

Weezing is not such a good counter because it is at risk of being 2HKO’d by CB Stone Edge, though can take anything else and safely 2HKO with Thunderbolt without EV investment.

Forretress takes 45% maximum from Stone Edge but will take as much as 67% from a Fire Fang, or even worse, be OHKO’d by a Fire Blast, but it can at least safely OHKO with Gyro Ball.

Regirock takes 55% at most from a CB Earthquake but can shrug off any other moves and OHKO with Stone Edge.

Gliscor takes as much as 73% from Ice Fang, while CB Stone Edge does 49% maximum and will not even 2HKO with Ice Fang unless with Stealth Rock support, which isn’t guaranteed either and is thus a bad counter.

Slowbro can take as much as 50% damage from CB Crunch while cannot guarantee a OHKO with Surf unless with residual damage.

Claydol takes as much as 65% from CB Crunch and cannot effectively kill Aerodactyl in return.

Milotic is wasted as a physical wall and is therefore not recommended.

Cresselia will take up to 51% from CB Crunch (though no more than 40% from other moves) while Ice Beam will not guarantee a 2HKO without Stealth Rock support.

Impish Dusknoir takes as much as 73% from Crunch while Thunderpunch only manages a 2HKO in return.

Vaporeon takes up to 60% from Stone Edge, though around 56 SAtk EVs guarantees a OHKO with Surf.

Aerodactyl with Sandstorm support will often be tricky, due to having an impressive SDef stat of 279.

Overall, you can expect STAB Stone Edge, Earthquake, Crunch, Fire Fang and Ice Fang to be Aerodactyl’s main attacks, occasionally mixing in Pursuit and Aerial Ace.

Aerodactyl is not very menacing and should not be much of a problem; very few people use it, anyway.



Alakazam

Alakazam@Choice Specs/ Choice Scarf
Nature: Timid/ Modest
EVs: 4 HP/ 252 Spd/ 252 SAtk
-Psychic
-Shadow Ball/ Focus Blast
-Energy Ball/ Focus Blast/ HP [Fighting]
-HP [Ice]/ HP [Fire]/ Trick

Most Alakazams will be Timid Choice Specs, while very rarely you might see Scarf versions.

Careful/ Sassy 252 HP/ 176 SDef Spiritomb is your best counter, taking only 38% from Specs Energy Ball and being able to beat Alakazam with Sucker Punch, Pursuit or Shadow Ball. Pursuit will OHKO on a switch and still beats Alakazam even if it stays in, whereas the other moves have no trouble killing.

Smogon also lists Sableye as a counter, but honestly no one uses Sableye, not even in UU.

Sassy Bronzong can take everything aside from HP [Fire] which does up to 57%, but Bronzong can easily OHKO with Gyro Ball.

Sassy 236 HP/ 216 SDef Celebi and 204 HP/ 52 SDef Bold Cresselia take up to 70% and 57% from Specs Shadow Ball respectively, though they can take anything else bar HP [Fire] for Celebi, then proceed to wear Alakazam down while using Recover and Moonlight. Careful 252 HP/ 176 SDefDusknoir takes 67% from Shadow Ball, while Shadow Sneak does not come close to a OHKO.

Focus Blast will do up to 48% to 148 HP/ 108 SDef Blissey, which allows Blissey to stall it with Softboiled. 204 HP/ 216 SDef Snorlax takes 63% from Focus Blast, but is safe from HP [Fighting] and can beat Alakazam with Crunch/ Return.

Alakazam will normally use STAB Psychic, Focus Blast, Shadow Ball, Energy Ball and HP [Ice] as its main attacking moves, occasionally adding HP [Fire] and HP [Fighting]. Fortunately, it does not have enough move slots, which is why you will often see one without Focus Blast or Shadow Ball, either of one gives you a large opening.

Revenge killing by Pursuit is the best answer. Weavile is ideal due to its superior speed, but Tyranitar, Houndoom, Metagross, etc. can also do the same if Alakazam is stuck to an ineffective move.

Trick is a large problem for many counters. This is just something you really need to be wary of.

Alakazam is menacing at late-game, but is very rarely seen. Despite that, you should at least have something to deal with it if you see one.



Azelf

Azelf@Life Orb/ Leftovers
Nature: Timid
EVs: 4 HP/ 252 Spd/ 252 SAtk
-Nasty Plot
-Psychic
-Grass Knot/ HP [Ground]/ HP [Fighting]/ Explosion
-Flamethrower/ HP [Fighting]/ Explosion

Is what you can expect from most Azelf. Very few will go Specs/ Scarf, which aren’t as big a threat as Nasty Plot, anyway.

Blissey can counter Azelf fine if it takes Life Orb, due to +6 Psychic dealing at most 90% to 148 HP/ 108 SDef Blissey. Leftovers can be problematic, because Blissey will fail to 3HKO with Seismic Toss and Azelf can hit Blissey with two +6 Psychics, which do up to 69% each. Either case, Thunder Wave or Sing can shut Azelf down as a sweeping threat, allowing it to be beat easily.

Sassy/ Careful 252 HP/ 176 SDef Spiritomb takes at most 74% from +2 Flamethrower, while can strike first with Sucker Punch which 2HKOs. It can also use Pursuit which deals good damage to a fleeing Azelf.

Snorlax can 2HKO Azelf with Crunch/ Return, while taking up to 58% from +2 Psychic, making it an effective counter.

204 HP/ 52 SDef Bold Cresselia’s Ice Beam does 29% at best to Azelf, while Azelf can Nasty Plot up to OHKO Cresselia with Flamethrower. As such, Cresselia cannot beat Azelf outright, but can slow it down by Thunder Wave.

Houndoom is awesome because it takes 40% at most from +2 Grass Knot and can threaten with Dark Pulse. Pursuit OHKO’s all the time on the switch if Houndoom has 32 Atk EVs, a neutral nature and Life Orb. HP [Fighting] on Azelf, however, will OHKO Houndoom.

A 4 HP/ 0 SDef Modest Heatran will take up to 64% from +2 Life Orb Psychic, though if it is Scarfed, it can outspeed and OHKO with Fire Blast 99% of the time. It takes little to nothing from the other moves bar HP [Fighting]/ [Ground], though.

Careful Dusknoir will take as much as 92% from +2 Life Orb Psychic, though will 2HKO with Shadow Sneak half of the time thanks to Life Orb damage. Leftovers Azelf, however, can only be beat by adequate support.

Being a Psychic type, Azelf can also be beat by Pursuit users. As with any fast sweeper, Azelf’s usefulness drops rapidly if it is paralyzed. Overall, being much sturdier than its BL counterpart Alakazam means that your moves actually have to hit it hard to successfully counter it, due to it being able to Nasty Plot.

Countering Azelf is assuming you switch on the turn it uses Nasty Plot.

Azelf is very formidable, due to having Nasty Plot and a very high speed stat. One wrong move can give it the turn it needs to Nasty Plot up its SAtk stat even higher.

Breloom

Breloom@Toxic Orb
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 44 HP/ 252 Atk/ 212 Spd
-Focus Punch/ Mach Punch/ Sky Uppercut
-Seed Bomb/ Leech Seed
-Spore
-Substitute/ Stone Edge

This is most of the Breloom you will encounter. Occasionally you may face Impish variants, Choice Band or Swords Dance variants.

Bold Cresselia can take Spore with Stalk, while Seed Bomb can do no more than 24%. Psychic with 0 SAtk EVs already comes close to a guaranteed OHKO, while Ice Beam can 2HKO on the 44 HP variants. Leech Seed can be disastrous, but you should be able to KO it in time.

252 HP/ 216 Def Zapdos can also take Spore with Stalk,

-------

It's probably not needed, but I thought I might as well post it.

And I vouch for this thread to be closed. Honestly, you can just find this on Smogon/ common sense.

 

[CAY]

Wow, your Post kinda owned mine lolz, great work there, seems like you had been saving it for some time haha, also, seems you explained a lot better than me, and that is really helpful, and really true, though smogon only gets like OU sets, thats mainly every set you´ll find.

 

[blackrose]

ok thanks for this, could you put it into an easier format to read nextime like
pokemon name - counters for that pokemon(maybe a short analysis).


also danbaru that is very nice, if you want i can add it in, like at the bottom i will have a more in depth section, pm me what you think.

 

[Danbaru's]

Like I said before, I'm posting the above wall of text to let some people I know what I've thought about doing and whether or not it's a good idea to keep on doing it. I don't intend to contribute to this thread. I hope I don't come off as harsh, but what you can find in this thread is basically stuff you can find on Smogon. If not, it is still common sense, which is why I think of this thread as somewhat unnecessary. The thought is appreciated, though.

 

[frigotyiuw]

Snorlax can be countered by CB Hera/machamp/gallade with close combat.

 

[Deathconsciousness]

no it cannot, as all of those will love STAB'd Normal attacks doing up to half their health.

I would suggest not posting if you don't understand what a counter is.

 

[frigotyiuw]

I am aware of what a counter is. Those pokemon I listed would survive if they are switched in - which is what a counter does. They can then should be able to one hit or do massive damage to a standard Curse Snorlax with the preformentioned Close Combat.

Maybe you're not as knowledgable as you think you are, maybe not, I don't really care. Seems like what you said explained the first part of what a counter does, successfully switch in and not getting one hit killed in the process.

I will now make sure I haven't got this wrong before I post it and run it by a definition of counter that I should be able to find in these forums.

A counter is a Pokemon that can easily switch into a threat and knock it out, the keyword being switch... So when making a counter for a Pokemon make sure you can actually switch into it.

Fair enough, right?

 

[Cerulean21]

Going through the list it seems you missed some important ones:

- IMO the best counter to Gyrados is Starmie (if not, it should at least get a mention), TB Uxie (preferably with SleepTalk) also beats the Sea Monster soundly
- The best counter to Heatran is a Special Defencively oriented Milotic
- Good Weavile Counters include defencive Hariyama (preferably with Thick Fat), Forretress and MachPunch Hitmontop, Infernape might also work to a degree, Bronzong easily survives his attacks and has Gyro Ball to kill it, it is also not going past Metagross
- Togekiss gets countered by Zapdos as the Thunderbird resists Air Slash as well as Aura Sphere
- Weavile is the best counter to Starmie. He will always survive a Surf or Thunderbolt off the standard SpinStar and whilst being faster has Night Slash for an OHKO or Pursuit if it's fleeing.
- Leech Seed Celebi works well against Suicune. Gyarados seems a bit of a novelty, but good Special Defence and physical attacks (as Cunes SpDef gets boosted by CM) let him counter it pretty soundly, beware of Roar though. Blissey with Toxic beats all Suicunes without Rest and Lapras can Roar him out and will take almost no damage (immunity to Surf and 4x Resistance to Ice Beam) even if cune has 6 CM under his butt.
- Ninjask falls to anything with Ice Shard
- Azelf (especially those with Explosion over NP) get walled by Spiritomb (immunity to Psychic, Explosion and the rare HP [Fighting]) thanks to his great Special Defence. He also has Shadow Ball, Shadow Sneak, Pursuit and Sucker Punch to kill the floating Pixi easily
- Oh and Blissey will make most forms of Gengar run.
- Nidoqueen with Aerial Ace works well against Heracross thanks to resistances to both Stab Moves as well as Stone Edge. Can't switch in repeatedly though especially if Toxic Spikes are down...
- a bulky Spiritomb with HP [Fighting] counters any form of Lucario thanks to immunity to Close Combat/Aura Sphere and Extremespeed
- Moltres basically resists Scizors entire movepool and has flamethrower.
- A roosting, defencively oriented Moltres can also safely counter any form of Metagross that lacks Stone Edge thanks to resistance to Meteor Mash and immunity to EQ. Beware of Thunderpunch though

 

[Annhialator Zero]

I am aware of what a counter is. Those pokemon I listed would survive if they are switched in - which is what a counter does. They can then should be able to one hit or do massive damage to a standard Curse Snorlax with the preformentioned Close Combat.

Maybe you're not as knowledgable as you think you are, maybe not, I don't really care. Seems like what you said explained the first part of what a counter does, successfully switch in and not getting one hit killed in the process.

I will now make sure I haven't got this wrong before I post it and run it by a definition of counter that I should be able to find in these forums.

Fair enough, right?

They will not counter. Snorlax's Return, assuming it is Adamant with 252 Atk EVs and Leftovers, does 68.87% - 81.13% to Hera; Gallade takes 79.52% - 93.52% and Machamp takes 51.56% - 60.42% (Note, all damage assumes defensive spreads as listed by Smogon because that's what your opponent will probably be using).

With no Lefties, this is a 2HKO. Yes, you survive and scare Snorlax off, but when Lax comes back in, and you have to switch to them again, they will faint. If you were relying on them as your sole Snorlax counter, you are screwed.

In the case of Gallade and Hera, the two will be so damaged that switching into ANYTHING will probably kill them, and with SR, Spikes and Sandstorm being so common, they will die very quickly, meaning they can't fulfill other roles they would.

In short: NOT A COUNTER.

EDIT: A counter is a Pokemon that can easily switch into a threat and knock it out, the keyword being switch... So when making a counter for a Pokemon make sure you can actually switch into it.

You quoted that yourself, yet now I bold the phrase easily, it makes you look bad, doesn't it?

 

[blackrose]

thanks, i will add all your siggestions tmw.

 

[o.0 death bow ck 0.o]

Subseed Sceptile's counter is any poke that is faster than it eg. Aerodactyl, Crobat, Jolteon and Weavile are somewhat good counters

 

[Annhialator Zero]

Sceptile is also beaten badly by Celebi who can't be seeded and takes lol% from HP [Ice].

 

[Blue Ace]

I dont see the point to this thread, some sets have certain counters while others dont, so its pretty pointless to discuss, besides if you really want to know then just go through Smogons analysis page as said before

http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/

 

[Mr. Mudkip]

Weavile gets owned by Mach Punch.