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Thugtrio

Big Beluga

u r a fatty
Can you teach me how to Duggy? .-. :3

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So I finally decided to stray away from my Stallish ways and try and build a fairly successful offensive team just to give my storage of teams some diversity. I honestly didn't expect much as I rarely play offense, but this team has served me very well and is one of my favorite's to use atm. It utilizes some uncommon yet very effective Pokemon such as Dugtrio, who the team was based around, and Raikou, which is great for catching people off guard. On top of that, it has a pretty stable 'defensive' backbone that doesn't give up the offensive pressure in Celebi, Heatran, and Zapdos. Because of the offensive nature of the team though, I'm pretty weak to opposing offensive threats such as DD Dragonite if I don't keep the momentum on my side or play stupidly. This is why I've tailored every Pokemon so that it has the least chance possible of letting opposing Mons set up, but I still think the team isn't perfect and could use a tiny bit of adjusting, even if it's just movesets and EVs. So yea please give me any advice you guys can muster up. When rating though, think not only about what I'm weak to on paper, but how a match would really play out. For example, it may seem that I'm SD Lucario weak, as my best actual check to it is Sub Roost Zappy, but honestly where can it set up? The only thing I can think of is choice locked Stone Edge or Pursuit on Dugtrio, when really I'm almost never locked into anything but EQ, making the weakness extremely situational. Just some food for thought.

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Starmie @ Life Orb
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Hydro Pump
- Thunderbolt
- Ice Beam
- Rapid Spin

Probably the best lead for an offensive team, and mine is no exception. The way Starmie puts the opponent on their heels early on with it's coverage, powerful attacks, and ability to keep hazards off the field is invaluable. It's starting to become more common, but surprisingly people don't seem to any more checks to it than they used to, so it's not a big deal. I'm sure you guys know how the set works, so I'll just explain how I personally utilize Starmie. Basically, it's a suicide lead. I stay in on pretty much every lead there is and just try firing off as many attacks as possible, hopefully thoroughly weakening the opponents team or luring in the counters that I need out of the picture for the team to be successful. I do sometimes save Starmie for later in the match as it's amazingly good against Stall when Blissey is trapped and is always good for a late / mid game spin, but this only under certain circumstances.

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Dugtrio (M) @ Choice Band
Trait: Arena Trap
EVs: 252 Atk / 32 SDef / 224 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Earthquake
- Pursuit
- Stone Edge
- Aerial Ace

Oh how I wish Gamefreak would of given Dugtrio a bit more attack, that way I wouldn't have to run ****ing Choice Band, the ultimate momentum killing item. Due to it's inevitably average Attack stat though, CB is a must for always allowing me to KO Shuca Tran and deal as much damage to Tar and Blissey as possible. Anyways, like I said earlier, this team was based around Dugtrio. I've always been fascinated in Duggy's trapping ability and it seemed like a great Mon to abuse in a Tar, Jirachi, and Heatran infested metagame. After choosing Dugtrio, I built the rest of the team around thriving in an environment without those said Mons as well as other easily trapped Pokemon such as Blissey. For the set, it's pretty standard other than Pursuit. I like Pursuit > Sucker Punch for the sole reason of being able to trap fleeing Gengar, who's always a pain no matter what.

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Celebi @ Life Orb
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 192 HP / 216 SAtk / 100 Spd
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- U-turn
- Recover
- Energy Ball
- Psychic

When I chose Dugtrio I knew that it's terrible defensive stats wouldn't allow it to switch into many of the threats I was intending to trap. Due to this, I almost certainly needed a lure + U-turn user, to give Duggy some safe switch-ins. Celebi seemed like the perfect choice as it lures in Blissey and Heatran every time, allowing me to U-turn out on the switch and get a free kill with Duggy. I opted for a variation on the LO set because I wanted to stay true to the offensive theme. I toyed around with the EVs and moveset a lot and this is what I eventually came up with. First of all, I put 100 Spe EVs to ensure that I outspeed Breloom, because if it gets a spore off on me and I'm forced to switch out of my main Celebi counter, things could get bad. After that, I wanted to bolster it's damage output so I used Modest + 216 SpA EVs to get to the jump point. Then I just put the rest of the EVs in HP to make Celebi sort of a bulky sweeper. As for the moveset, U-turn is a given. I originally had Leaf Storm > Energy Ball but I hated how so many things could set up on me after a SpA drop, so EB was chosen to give me a reliable STAB (**** vappy). I've always had good success with Psychic on Celebi so I then just slapped it on and it fits perfectly by not letting Dragonite set up, providing fairly good coverage, catching some common Celebi 'counters' like Nape and Gar off guard, and giving me a second STAB to abuse.

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Heatran (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Flash Fire
EVs: 248 HP / 48 SAtk / 208 SDef / 4 Spd
Mild Nature (+SAtk, -Def)
- Stealth Rock
- Fire Blast
- Earth Power
- Explosion

Main defensive pivot for the team and it also happens to be the team's SR user, which is always welcome. This, along with Zapdos and Celebi, allows me to actually fall back and soak up some hits in case I lose momentum some how. Because it sort of acts as a utility counter for the team, the spread is kinda weird. I use Mild + 48 SpA to make sure Fire Blast always KOs Gengar after LO recoil as well as give Heatran more of an offensive presense overall. The 248 HP + 208 SpD lets me tank a Focus Blast from the previously mentioned Gengar even after SR on top of making Tran the pivot / utility counter that I mentioned before. A random 4 EVs were thrown into Speed to outrun other zero speed Heatran's to the EP. Fire Blast, Earth Power, and Stealth Rock are as standard as it gets for Heatran, so I won't bother explaining those. Explosion has been extremely useful by making it very hard for opposing Mons like Dragonite to set up on me. It also gives me yet another free switch-in for Starmie, Dugtrio and Celebi. I have been considering Shuca + WoW > Lefties + Explosion, but I think that'd make me terribly Lum Dragonite weak.

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Zapdos @ Leftovers
Trait: Pressure
EVs: 248 HP / 44 Def / 216 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Substitute
- Roost
- Toxic
- Thunderbolt

Meant to be the perfect offensive partner for Raikou, who I chose to abuse the absence of Tar, Bliss and Heatran. Due to both Zappy and Raikou sharing the same STAB, they often times lure in the same counters / checks. I like to use this to my advantage by having Zappy lure in Swampert, Tyranitar, and Blissey, all who I can severely cripple by stalling them out with Toxic, Sub and Roost. Not to mention that Zapdos easily switches into the Ground moves aimed at Raikou. With Zappy's ability to continually spread Toxic, Raikou can spend it's time boosting and subbing while opposing counters slowly whither away from Toxic damage. Not much else I can say about this guy, Sub Roost Zapdos has been one of my favorite sets for a while becuase it absolutely dismantles teams that aren't prepared for it. Best Mon to use against noobs who don't know what they're doing as they're usually never prepared for it and Sub / Roost allow you to by pass untimely hax that they seem to always get.

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Raikou @ Leftovers
Trait: Pressure
EVs: 128 HP / 68 Def / 60 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Substitute
- Calm Mind
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Ice]

And here's the Pokemon that the team is trying to set up. Most teams that utilize Sub Kou try to support it with Toxic Spikes, and although they do work really when abusing Substitute, I can't think of any possible way to fit them onto the team and with Duggy trapping everything in sight, there's really no need for them. Like I said before, once Zapdos and Dugtrio have done their job, not many teams are geared for taking this thing on. Subsitute protects it from status and allows me to scout the numerous switches that Raikou forces. From there, I can start boosting my SpA and SpD with Calm Mind, making me increasingly more powerful and eventually making by Subs unbreakable to special attackers. Thunderbolt + HP ice provide the best possible coverage for 2 attacking slots and they're really all I need taking into account that this is team is a total dick to Swampert. Although the process of using Raikou is fairly simple, the EVs that I use to make Raikou a threat are anything but simple. 128 HP means that after a CM, Bulky Celebi can never break my Sub with Grass Knot. 68 Def combined with those EVs make my Subs bulky enough to always withstand a Jolly Choice Scarf Flygon's U-turn. Max Speed so that I can tie with Starmie, Azelf and other Raikou and the last EVs were thrown into SpA to give Raikou a bit of offensive presence right off the bat.


Overall, an extremely fun team to use. I thoroughly enjoyed making it and urge all of you guys to try it out, as when played right, it can dismantle even some of the most well built teams. Thanks for reading, and remember, I can use all the help I can get, so please rate!
 
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I wrote a big long rate but it got deleted so heres the short version:

1) Very Lucario weak. It can set up on Dugtrio (rarely) and survive a Thunderbolt with enough HP left over for five attacks. It can also 2HKO your whole team without Swords Dancing so be aware of that.

2) LO Gyarados weak. It OHKOs your entire team barring Celebi who needs to stay above 70% or else +1 Stone Edge OHKOs after rocks. Not that Celebi KOs back.

3) HP Ice Shaymin weak, but they aren't too common so its ok (most run HP fire I thought)

4) Weak to a ton of stuff if Dugtrio dies and several things are guaranteed at least one kill before being revenged.

Otherwise really solid. I'll try to help more when I'm less annoyed at Serebii for deleting my post!
 

TheAwesomeOne

Well-Known Member
You are very Ice weak. and you can't just rely on Heatran to take them out.
Dragon Pokémon can force a lot of switches, which means more DD time, and they will just EQ Heatran to death, and go on to sweep the rest of you team.
I would say put an Electivire on the team, it works well in conjunction with Starmie, its diverse move pool can help it sweep, especially after a Motor Drive boost or two.
If used right, it can cut the amount of weaknesses in half, well not halving them, but countering them.
It can also take on the stuff Blue Harvest talked about, if used correctly.
Maybe swap Raikou for it.
 
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krizcillz

Well-Known Member
Dugtrio isn't really great for killing, have you considered him as a lead?

Dugtrio @Focus Sash
252 speed, 252 def
Screech
Swagger
Dig
SR

He already out speeds many leads, so the def is just to try and resist the odd hit past confusion. Dig is to hide, not to attack. Most leads don't have EQ so by the time they switch it will be too late. SR is to set something up.
 

TheAwesomeOne

Well-Known Member
Dig and two-turn moves are never wanted in Competitive Battling.
He will get killed set up on, Earthquake is better, if you want to hide, switch out to another Pokémon.
 
Dig and two-turn moves are never wanted in Competitive Battling.
He will get killed set up on, Earthquake is better, if you want to hide, switch out to another Pokémon.

BounceGyara!

Pretty good team here Shane, but you're quite weak to LOShaymin that carry HP Ice, which has become common due to the omnipresence of Dragonite in Gen 4 OU. Nothing on the team can take two consecutive hits from Shaymin after Stealth Rocks and Dugtrio only manages 41.5% - 49.1% with Choice Banded Aerial Ace, so it can't revenge kill it either. To remedy this I suggest replacing Starmie with this Skarmory set.

Skarmory@Lefties
Careful | Keen Eye | 252 HP / 164 Sp Def / 92 Spe
Brave Bird | Roost | Spikes | Taunt

This set helps by giving you a decent switch in to LOShaymin and scare it away with a Brave Bird, plus it allows you to set up Spikes which helps wear down things like Blissey and Tyranitar even more that stop Raikou from pulling off its sweep.

That's all I have time for for now, but overall this is still a good team and it's nice to see you stray away from your usual teams.

PS You're NPCelebi weak. :p
 

krizcillz

Well-Known Member
Dig and two-turn moves are never wanted in Competitive Battling.
He will get killed set up on, Earthquake is better, if you want to hide, switch out to another Pokémon.

It's not for killing, it's for stalling.
 

123fakestreet

Metalopolis King
Dugtrio isn't really great for killing, have you considered him as a lead?

Dugtrio @Focus Sash
252 speed, 252 def
Screech
Swagger
Dig
SR

He already out speeds many leads, so the def is just to try and resist the odd hit past confusion. Dig is to hide, not to attack. Most leads don't have EQ so by the time they switch it will be too late. SR is to set something up.

I'm on holiday so why am I arguing?.......

His team is entirely based around using dugtrio to remove any threats his team lures in so he can sweep. It's an ingenious plan btw and I hope to create a similar tactic for myself.

Lead dugtrio is not good because it is slower than all suicide leads and cannot do much damage. It does have a 'niche' in sucker punch but it cannot do much as a lead.

Dugtrio @ Focus sash
Nature: Jolly
Ability: Arena trap
EVs: 252 attk / 252 spe / 4 hp
Moves:
-Stealth rock
-Earthquake
-Sucker punch
-Taunt (If he gets it) / Rock slide

That's the best lead dugtrio can pull off, it's still not worth it, this was utterly pointless anyway because it's a dugtrio based threat removal team.

I can't really say much and I wish I could, I'll have to do some calcs with celebi spreads and I'll look for another one if there is one :)
 

krizcillz

Well-Known Member
Dugtrio still doesn't work as a threat remover as he doesn't have enough damage to kill anything or def to take hits. IMO he'll work better as a lead than in metagame, but in either case it's still not going to work well.
 

TheAwesomeOne

Well-Known Member
Yes I know, I was countering krizkills point :)
Oh, sorry.
LOL.

Dugtrio still doesn't work as a threat remover as he doesn't have enough damage to kill anything or def to take hits. IMO he'll work better as a lead than in metagame, but in either case it's still not going to work well.

So we all are trying to say that Dugtrio is outclassed by other Pokémon.
End of argument.
 
Dugtrio still doesn't work as a threat remover as he doesn't have enough damage to kill anything or def to take hits. IMO he'll work better as a lead than in metagame, but in either case it's still not going to work well.

Wait so you're telling me that I should lead with Dugtrio and take him entirely out of the metagame?

brilliant.jpg
 

Big Beluga

u r a fatty
Thanks for all the rates guys, they're all greatly appreciated.

I wrote a big long rate but it got deleted so heres the short version:

1) Very Lucario weak. It can set up on Dugtrio (rarely) and survive a Thunderbolt with enough HP left over for five attacks. It can also 2HKO your whole team without Swords Dancing so be aware of that.

2) LO Gyarados weak. It OHKOs your entire team barring Celebi who needs to stay above 70% or else +1 Stone Edge OHKOs after rocks. Not that Celebi KOs back.

3) HP Ice Shaymin weak, but they aren't too common so its ok (most run HP fire I thought)

4) Weak to a ton of stuff if Dugtrio dies and several things are guaranteed at least one kill before being revenged.

Otherwise really solid. I'll try to help more when I'm less annoyed at Serebii for deleting my post!
You're right about all of them. Luckily, I've been fortunate enough to be facing them in good conditions or not facing them at all (in the case of LO Gyara). If any of them get a free switch-in though, I can't do much but sac a Mon and try to regain the momentum with all the speed on the team. The only solution I can think of atm is simply giving Zapdos a bulkier spread, which kinda helps with Gyara and Luke.

You are very Ice weak. and you can't just rely on Heatran to take them out.
Dragon Pokémon can force a lot of switches, which means more DD time, and they will just EQ Heatran to death, and go on to sweep the rest of you team.
I would say put an Electivire on the team, it works well in conjunction with Starmie, its diverse move pool can help it sweep, especially after a Motor Drive boost or two.
If used right, it can cut the amount of weaknesses in half, well not halving them, but countering them.
It can also take on the stuff Blue Harvest talked about, if used correctly.
Maybe swap Raikou for it.
First of all, I have 2 Ice resists and 1/3 of my ice weaks (Dugtrio) can't even take resisted attacks, so I won't count him, meaning it sorta balances out, but I will admit 3 Ice weaks is a lot. Secondly, and more importantly, don't go by type weaknesses when rating or when building teams for yourself. This is one of the points that differentiates sub par players to good players. Good teams are built by countering certain threats and sets, not trying to patch up weaknesses to certain moves (although sometimes, under special conditions like Mono type teams, this is needed). Because of this, I don't don't look at what types I'm weak to, but rather what exact Mons I'm weak to. Finally, Electivire is pretty bad in general, I don't know how it fixes a DD Nite weakness, and I'm almost always better off switching Dugtrio into Electric attacks as it can actually trap ****.

Dugtrio isn't really great for killing, have you considered him as a lead?

Dugtrio @Focus Sash
252 speed, 252 def
Screech
Swagger
Dig
SR

He already out speeds many leads, so the def is just to try and resist the odd hit past confusion. Dig is to hide, not to attack. Most leads don't have EQ so by the time they switch it will be too late. SR is to set something up.
Don't really know what you mean by it's not good at killing stuff, but ok. Thanks for the suggestion, but Duggy is a terrible lead and Starmie is just amazing, simple as that.
BounceGyara!

Pretty good team here Shane, but you're quite weak to LOShaymin that carry HP Ice, which has become common due to the omnipresence of Dragonite in Gen 4 OU. Nothing on the team can take two consecutive hits from Shaymin after Stealth Rocks and Dugtrio only manages 41.5% - 49.1% with Choice Banded Aerial Ace, so it can't revenge kill it either. To remedy this I suggest replacing Starmie with this Skarmory set.

Skarmory@Lefties
Careful | Keen Eye | 252 HP / 164 Sp Def / 92 Spe
Brave Bird | Roost | Spikes | Taunt

This set helps by giving you a decent switch in to LOShaymin and scare it away with a Brave Bird, plus it allows you to set up Spikes which helps wear down things like Blissey and Tyranitar even more that stop Raikou from pulling off its sweep.

That's all I have time for for now, but overall this is still a good team and it's nice to see you stray away from your usual teams.

PS You're NPCelebi weak. :p

Lol thanks for the rate Doc. Spikes support would be great for the team, and as I'm sure you know, Skarm is one of my favorite Mons to use. Sadly though, Starmie and Skarm perform 2 totally different roles. If I traded out Star and put in Skarm, I'd lose a great momentum getter at the beginning of the match, which almost always starts my opponent off on the wrong foot. Secondly, Starmie keeps entry hazards off the field which can be really problematic for Raikou, Heatran, Celebi and Zapdos. I do want to find a better check to Shaymin though, I'm gonna keep looking, I just don't think Skarm is the best overall answer.

Also, I think this is the one team of mine that actually wouldn't get swept by NP Celebi rofl. I'm sure you'll find some other random NP Mon to sweep me with though.

Dugtrio still doesn't work as a threat remover as he doesn't have enough damage to kill anything or def to take hits. IMO he'll work better as a lead than in metagame, but in either case it's still not going to work well.

Dugtrio may not have the best attack stat in the world, but it works pretty well for what I need it to do, especially with CB. All I need it to do is trap Heatran, Tyranitar, and Blissey and I usually have the game won from there. Duggy OHKOs Tran even through Shuca, OHKOs DD / ScarfTar, and 2HKOs Bliss while all it can do is Seismic Toss, which is a 2HKO. Taking this into consideration, Dugtrio works great as a threat remover as long as you surround it with Pokemon that take advantage of those threats I mentioned being removed.

I'd also like to address the people saying that Dugtrio is outclassed. Dugtrio is probably one of the least outclassed Mons in the game lol. This is because of it's unique ability, Arena Trap, making any non flyers / levitators unable to switch. No other legal pokemon in 4th gen, besides Trapinch who's shitty speed cripples it to no end, can do this, meaning it can't possibly be outclassed. For something to be outclassed, something else has to be better than it at a specific job. Well, nothing else can do Duggy's job, so it can't be outclassed lol. Just pointing that out.
 

garchompmaster29

Xatu>Espeon
i would put sucker punch over aerial ace, and @krillcillz dugtrio isn't usually used for his glorious attack stat, his ability is the only reason he is used AT ALL. he would be so bad it would be unspeakable if not for that ability.


P.S.

one time i ran a troll dugtrio on my lucario-based team (one that evolved around removing lukes threats so he could sweep).

it was a life orb mixed dugtrio with earthquake, hp ice, pursuit, and suckerP. the evs were taylored so that trio could one-shot gliscor with no spD investment.
 

Big Beluga

u r a fatty
Modest + 252 SpA LO Dugtrio does 87% - 102.8% to Gliscor with HP Ice, meaning that's the only way possible to one shot Glisc. This is a lot of wasted potential just to take out Gliscor.
 

garchompmaster29

Xatu>Espeon
well, gliscor is the probably the largest lucario threat out there, and it has surprise factor. also, i meant to say that it was a cspecs trio (yes i run c-specs with a mixed set.)
of course, that trio was really only for trolling and a few laughs.
 

Big Beluga

u r a fatty
Ok, I think I've finally found a way to make this team not weak to so many threats. I'm now using SR Bronzong > Heatran and Sub Roost Moltres > Zapdos. This is the whole team now...

• LO Starmie
• CB Dugtrio
• Bronzong (SR, EQ, Explosion, Gyro Ball / Payback)
• LO Celebi
• Moltres (Sub, Roost, Toxic, Flamethrower)
• Sub CM Raikou

You guys think the changes work well?
 
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