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Time for some debates

  • Thread starter Deleted member 384931
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Deleted member 384931

Guest
Well, now we have some free time on our hands, I thought its time to have some debates that bug me.

First one:
Why do people believe XY or SM is better and the other is trash? Please use facts.

Second one:
Who is the strongest rival in raw power?
Who has the most interesting personality? Please use facts

Third one:
Why is Gou a mixed bag for some? Please use facts!

Have fun and stay polite!

KenzeyEevee
 

Dragalge

"Orange" Magical Girl
Well, now we have some free time on our hands, I thought its time to have some debates that bug me.

First one:
Why do people believe XY or SM is better and the other is trash? Please use facts.

Second one:
Who is the strongest rival in raw power?
Who has the most interesting personality? Please use facts

Third one:
Why is Gou a mixed bag for some? Please use facts!

Have fun and stay polite!

KenzeyEevee
*Sees thread that looks like bait for flaming*

Travant’s FEH line: What are you doing, clown?
 
D

Deleted member 384931

Guest
*Sees thread that looks like bait for flaming*

Travant’s FEH line: What are you doing, clown?

No wars. I am tired of XY vs SM and thought this was a good way to discuss that.
 

Captain Jigglypuff

*On Vacation. Go Away!*
I haven’t watched much of XY and none of SM but from what I’ve observed, I think the hate for SM is the drastic shift in art style and it’s more comedic tone. Which is ironic as the OS was heavy on visual jokes and puns especially with episode titles.

The rival I think had the most raw power is Paul. He always talked about how he was much stronger and had a better team and he could actually back it up. He did pretty well in his battle with Cynthia and took awhile before he admitted defeat. His Pokémon did land a few hits on Garchomp and while he wasn’t close to KO it, it did receive quite a bit of damage. Most Champions would obliterate any challengers that made a challenge to battle outside the League in less than three minutes. Lance’s Dragonite would have used Hyper Beam. Steven would have just used Metagross’s Psychic and Hyper Beam. And if Paul challenged Alder, Volcorona would just need a Quiver Dance to boost Fiery Dance and take Paul out with ease. Ash almost defeated Diantha mostly due to Greninja becoming Ash-Greninja and plot armor but under any other circumstance, Gardevoir would have taken out Greninja even without Mega Evolving mainly due to its Fairy type advantage over Dark types. Greninja has no moves to counter Fairy attacks.

I think Go is getting mixed reception right now mainly because he is the one catching all of the Pokémon and there are several episodes focusing on him so early into his series which longtime fans aren’t used to. Misty didn’t get an episode focusing mainly on her until Princess Vs Princess and no Water Flowers of Cerulean City doesn’t count as it was more focused on Ash getting the Cascade Badge. I think over time people will warm up to the idea of a Pokémon series where Ash isn’t the main focus.
 

CMButch

Kanto is love. Kanto is life.
Tired of XY vs SM but posts about XY vs SM XD
1. I don't think SM is trash but OK series. XY is better because of: no bad comedy, battles and travelling like in Naruto and DBZ( Which are the best anime IMO); so XY is more shonen, unlike SM which is more like those Slice of Life anime which are cringe. Pokemon being like DBZ/Naruto > Pokemon to be like Free, Clannad( I just googled those, I mean SM is probably like not those anime but it's more SoL-y). OK SM episodes are that are more shonen and bad ones are more SoL-y.
2. Alain no contest
3. Go is good, IMO.
 

SerGoldenhandtheJust

Deluded Dreamer
1. (Okay this is definitely gonna cause another war)
Honestly when it boils down to it, XY and SM are two really different series in style which came consecutively after each other, and both caused a lot of hype which led to rabid fan discussion
People hate SM coz of the art style change definitely and it's slice of life aspect which may not agree with some. Personally I enjoy the SoL aspect and the family theme, and the series is wholesome for me and fun. And it respected Ash
People hate XY because ash losing the league and releasing greninja which doesn't make any sense story wise and so it felt more like they were baiting and causing hype only to back out on it. Like amour shipping. For some people XY is too shonen and it's fillers are boring. Personally I really enjoyed XY and it's Team flare arc was good and it had great battles and really was a nice series after the disastrous Black and White.

In my opinion, I enjoyed SM more than XY. But I still like both series A LOT. I just wish there wouldn't be toxic fans who would claim XY is god tier and SM is trash and vice versa.

2. Alain but Paul and Gladion were more interesting imo.

3. Some people who are toxic Ash fans believe Go is stealing spotlight from him ignoring the fact that this series is focused on BOTH of them and that Go hasn't been stealing more time. Also his goal for some doesn't agree to their taste. Personally I love Go, he's unique and he's flawed which is a good thing coz he gets development. He is fun to see and his chemistry with Ash is amazing. And they have been improving on how to handle his goal which I hope they carry on.
 

Decidueye23

Well-Known Member
1. I do prefer XY and XYZ over SM but i lioe both the series. I liked XY for the pokemon it had, the animation and battles were excellently done. Even though ash had only 5 pokemon on his hand for the majority of the time, his team didnt feel lacking because there were evolutions and teacm changes. SM on the other hand, changed the story by reducing the number of battles by making other characters take on the trials instead of ash. The pacing of the show was not that great IMO with practically no impactful team change after litten evolves till he catches meltan. ( yeah poipole was there, but maybe because i am used to playing the games so much that any non battling pokemon dont seem to add much). Also the suppoeting characters could have gotten some more episodes to improve their teams, since all their league battles barring kiawes felt like a joke. In a span of 3 epispdes in the end the team changes majorly making it a powerhouse. I would have liked to see a more gradual journey. I however like the character arcs in SM more, they were much more fleshed out.

2. Pure strenght i think alain, and paul would come a close second. Alains mega charizard was a BEAST. It was teying to hold its own against a 50%Zygarde so i d say alain.

3.i dont dislike gou. I dont love him but he is a fairly decent character. His goal on the other hand is kinda monotonous and boring because all he does is see a pokemon and catch it. Like someone mentioned would be nice if he tried different methods to catch like baiting with poffins, pokeblock or go to some place sepcifically. I just feel that he needs some more definining facts before i love pokemon catching.
 

k6666

Pikachu Fan
1. Because they both different genre one shonen the other is Slice of life, it just matter to what preference you like? I like SM because i myself love comedy and SoL genre
2 Alain, his Charizard just so strong and his fight style is just more brute force to show his raw power
3. I just indifferent with go, i like his character and his flaw but his goal is just bland , boring and ambiguous like Pokemon master is, like how catching every Pokemon get you to mew???
 
I usually don't reply to threads like these but the question "Who is the strongest rival in raw power?" is a bit vague. Are we only talking about Ash's rivals? One more thing, are we talking about their current strengths? Since Alain is no longer using the Mega-Stone I don't think he is that strong.
 

Sword master zacian

Well-Known Member
Both are great but ash in kalos is better than ash in alola he is more confident and cool guy in kalos and kinda dumb and little kid(f*** iris get out of here) in alola
But the growth in alola is literally seen from a small childish behaviour to a strong chamion
 

nickdt

Well-Known Member
1. Both are great, but i prefer the lighthearted Sun and Moon anime compared to the darker storyline of XY. Ash-Greninja also didn't help with that.
2. Imo, the strongest Rival in raw power is Paul. All his Pokemon are powerful in their own way, while Alains Pokemon have disappointed against Ash (We can't really judge the rest of the Kalos league, since we didn't saw Alains full battles), except for Bisharp and Charizard. Yes, Metagross fought against Remo, but we don't actually know if he got any wins in that battle and considering Alain doesn't use Mega Evolution anymore, Paul is way stronger than him (And i am gonna make a bold claim, but i think even Sawyer is stronger than Alain at the moment).
 

TheWanderingMist

Paladin of the Snow Queen
1. Don't care.

2. Alain, easily. Perhaps overly focused on Charizard, but the rest of his team stood its ground against Ash's fairly well.

Most interesting personality goes to Gary because, well, he's Gary.

EDIT: I will not discuss the many, many, many problems with Chimchar's OT.

3. Mixed bag? I've only seen liking him or murderous hatred. I've yet to see anyone be wishy-washy about him.
 
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Mythical-Moonlight

I just ran, I ran all Night and Day ~
Well, now we have some free time on our hands, I thought its time to have some debates that bug me.

First one:
Why do people believe XY or SM is better and the other is trash? Please use facts.

Second one:
Who is the strongest rival in raw power?
Who has the most interesting personality? Please use facts

Third one:
Why is Gou a mixed bag for some? Please use facts!

Have fun and stay polite!

KenzeyEevee

1 A.) People hate X&Y because Ash became Boring, Alain beat him in the League, Ash-Greninja was an ***pul, Releasing Greninja (it's not even entirely clear if Ash released it or not) and Serena's character is primarly centered around her crush on Ash which is bad for the show's female lead.

1 B.) People hate S&M because of the complete opposite Genre Shift from X&Y, The weird Art Style, the Goofy facial expressions, Ash's Rowlet didn't Evolve, Guzma and Plumeria didn't show up until the tail end of the series, and possibly the biggest one is they entirely changed Lusamine's character and turned her into a sweet loving mother therefore completely screwed up the Darker story of dealing with Parental Abuse from the games.

2.) The strongest was Alain but the most interesting was probably Paul. I don't like him that much but none of Ash's other Rivals got as much development as him

3.) Gou is a mixed bag for some because some people think he's just Boring I guess. (Amusingly enough some of the same people are wishing that Koharu would take his place despite her being even more of a boring character lol)
 

Tabasco Boshi

★★★★★
1. People who believe you can't like or dislike both or that you immediately dislike the other because you like one are just stupid. They both are different and have their ups and downs. I like XY for certain things and I like SM for others. But I wouldn't even say the combination of the two would make the perfect series because I don't think they are polar opposites. It's not that hard to understand.

2. Paul. Alain's only memorable Pokémon is Charizard so I refuse to take him seriously. He was awfully written as a rival.

3. The problem with Gou is that his whole goal goes against the spirit of an anime that has been airing for over two decades. If he wasn't introduced in episode 1000+ but in a brand new series in another universe, people would probably care more about him. It doesn't help that he's with Ash, a perfectly established character that can easily carry the show. Even in episodes like 22, where he has the main focus, Ash has the most important line when he asks Go if he talked with Raboot. Also the double protagonists thing is a bluff. They could say it 4000 times and nobody would believe Gou has the same status as Ash. The series started to get interesting as soon as Ash started doing something.
 

blizzardblaze

Comp. Battler Who loves The Anime
1. Personally, I enjoyed XY, and although I liked Ash in this series because he was inspiring to others, and encouraged their growth(kinda like Yusei from YGO 5D's), but I also really hate some of the beginning episodes of SM even though they gave some good world building, it really felt as if the writers didn't know what to do with the characters at first because of the large cast? Either way, both of them have their flaws and strengths. I also like how SM is willing to tackle some sensitive topics such as death and being able to move on, in a way that doesn't really feel forced and really makes you care
People just have different opinions and tastes. That's all. Some are way too toxic and willing to push the other series down the other people's throats because they think that series is the best.

2. Paul. Easily Paul. Paul is the complete antithesis of Ash and pushed him in such a way that no other character in the show has before, by challenging almost every part of Ash's beliefs about what it means to be a Pokemon Trainer and how you should train your Pokemon. It was also nice to see how both of them, at the end of their rivalry, ended up learning a valuable lesson - people using different ways can still achieve the same results, even if you don't necessarily agree with them, and you should learn to accept those differences.
Alain's Charizard is so overpowered, and although he was one of the biggest reasons for Ash and Greninja working on developing their bond and the Ash-Greninja form, it just felt kind of pointless to introduce him as a rival to Ash, especially so late into the series. It would have actually been a lot better if he was introduced more early on in the series and been given more time to develop, but then again...
The rest of his team is kind of really EH. Unfezant was surprisingly strong for it's species, considering what Ash's and Skyla's Unfezant are capable of doing...Bisharp and Metagross are probably the strongest Pokemon on Alain's team besides Charizard, the rest are just there.

3. Go is someone who kind of represents a part of the fanbase, the people who got into the franchise through Pokemon Go and whose only interests are in catching Pokemon, and aren't really interested in trying the other parts of Pokemon out, like Mystery Dungeon, the main series, or the show. His philosophy goes along the lines of most of the Pokemon that he catches are just numbers to fill up for that Pokedex, and he doesn't even try to build bonds with most of them, excluding Raboot, since that's all they really are for him. Although with the current influence of Ash that he has on him, I'm pretty sure that he's going to start to change, and become more open and willing to try out the other aspects of Pokemon. Who knows, maybe he'll try out Pokemon Showcases or Performances one day
Oh yeah, I forgot to mention. He was a big jerk to Raboot, the only Pokemon he's bothered to make a bond with, by telling it as a Scorbunny that "he shouldn't try to do new things and give up"
 
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mehmeh1

Not thinking twice!
Easy:
1) Pretty much opposite styles, so many people who are really into one will most likely not like the other one
2) Raw Power: Alain, he's the only non-champion who has defeated an elite 4 on-screen, though if we're only talking about the region-spanning rivals (I don't count Alain as one), I'd probably say Sawyer, as he has a mega and he tends to use a lot of analysis and tactics into his battles, giving end of XY Ash a run for his money (though I'd say vs Alain Ash is a bit stronger than vs Sawyer Ash due to Pikachu's performance)
Personality: Ok, this one's actually pretty hard, but I'm between Sawyer, and Paul. The latter because of him being Ash's opposite and pretty much a competitive player, leading to some of the best character dynamics in the whole pokemon anime. Meanwhile, Sawyer gave us something more unique for Ash, with him not being the underdog for once, but a mentor. I liked how we flat out saw him bawl lamenting his loss to Ash on the semis, which we don't tend to see much and adds a tone of realism into the league. I'll give an honorable mention to Trip of all people due to his motivation from Alder (who didn't even actually remember him) and being more of a really cocky beginner who got validated due to an accident, not to mention that he keeps recordings of his losses to actually learn from them, which I found pretty interesting. Sadly none of these factors got really utilized to their full potential, leaving us with a lame mess.
3) Pokemon Go in general is a very controversial game among the more hardcore fanbase, so of course a character based on said game would be controvesial
 
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Spider-Phoenix

#ChespinGang
Well said about Sawyer. He might not be who I consider the best rival - I'd give the place to Paul - but he's certainly one of my favorites. Ikue Ohtani did a spetacular job voicing him. Guess she just had to jump at the opportunity of doing something in the show besides saying Pikachu in all different forms possible and imaginable.

Actually, I feel that whenever I see her non-Pokémon roles but with Sawyer even more haha

As for everything else

1) As for SM first impression was negative but after the premiere showed it wouldn't be the train wreck I thought it'd, I've warmed to it. It has some good episodes, characters and moments. Still prefer XY overall but SM is decent.

2) Paul is the strongest overall since unlike Alain he doesn't focus on a specific pokémon nor on a specific tatic (mega evolution and the Blast Burn meme)

3) I'm biased as Go was the kind of character I've wanted in the show for years. From way back when I saw a picture of GS player character in a game magazine during the late 90's-early 2000 Pokémon fad.

I think what might annoy some people is how the writting handles his goal clash with some of the things the anime have been doing since... Forever. Unlike PoGo - and the main games that people often forget - the anime always kind of made a point that each capture had some meaning or at least a dedicated episode for either the attempt to capture something, how the pokémon is a good fit for a certain character OR how the pokémon that's to be caught relates to the trainer growth.

Go's "gotta catch'em all" is unusual for the show but I don't mind since a) in a way it's kind of unique since we've never get it, despite the various times Ash shouted he'd get lots of them (most of the time he didn't) and b) it doesn't really conflict with the show and just features an aspect that's one of the core of the series so I'm ok with it.

Also, I feel like the show appears to be making it a plot point that Go needs to learn how to connect with people. And he's making some progress like when he got Cubone with bonding skill or the most recent episode showing how much he loves his Raboot.
 

Zoruagible

Lover of underrated characters
1. Both have faults and some good. Neither live up to AG and DP though, far from it.
2. Paul for every category

3. The problem with Gou is that his whole goal goes against the spirit of an anime that has been airing for over two decades. If he wasn't introduced in episode 1000+ but in a brand new series in another universe, people would probably care more about him. It doesn't help that he's with Ash, a perfectly established character that can easily carry the show. Even in episodes like 22, where he has the main focus, Ash has the most important line when he asks Go if he talked with Raboot. Also the double protagonists thing is a bluff. They could say it 4000 times and nobody would believe Gou has the same status as Ash. The series started to get interesting as soon as Ash started doing something.

^
Him tossing pokeballs left and right completely goes against everything the anime's stood for, very few captures were done that way in the past. Majority had Ash or one of the various companions bond with a Pokemon, then catch it. Making you care for the capture and happy to see it, Go catching random crap every damn episode is the opposite of that. Why should I care for something I won't see much of or won't get fleshed out?
And it doesn't help that his fans can't just accept the fact people hate him, you don't see us Team Rocket fans lunging at the constant "No TR, yay!" posts that most of the time are completely uncalled for as they've been absent for several episodes in some cases that happens. Being hostile towards people who dislike a character is only going to increase that level of hatred

Oh yeah, and GO... he's literally a incarnate version of it. GO's controversial so it only fits that a character whose based on it will be as well.

The whole "I wanna catch them all!" goal would work better if say the series had a complete reboot and it was literally just Kanto, they could space out the captures and make his goal more interesting. Plus the catching sprees *shudder*, I thought the show was aimed for kids? What's with giving him 8 Pokemon in one episode?! They're 'blink and you miss it' too, uh huh... wasn't a reason the BF got cut from the games because of kids having "short attention spans"? lol He needs more episodes like Cubone
 
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