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To Stop Some of the Flaming

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thunderblade12

Well-Known Member
Alright, just for starters, this is not meant to be used as an undeniable source of proof that one saga is better than the other. The only reason I'm posting this is because I constantly hear so much whining about one saga having more filler than another. Usually Sinnoh. This is my way of saying "no sir, you are wrong."

And here it is, undeniable proof compliments of Rocketshipper from Bulbagarden:

Lol, I really have no life for actually making this topic. But I was really interested in quantifiying just how much of every season was filler and how much was plot, and it was fun doing it.

Note that all of these percentages are *approximate*, because I know that we could never get everyone to agree on all the criteria for filler and which episodes are or aren't. With some episodes its obvious, of course, but there are a lot that I think can be argued, even some that I debated with myself over including or not.

the Critera I used to determine plot vs filler was basicly the following. Filler episodes are episodes that do NOT contain at least one of the following things...

-Pokemon captures/releases/evolutions/trades
-events relating to gyms and gym leaders or contests
-scene where a character trains their pokemon to learn a new move or to signifigantly improve themselves in battle, such that the pokemon's progress is visible in later episodes.
-events involving signifigant character development or background information that gets refrenced later
-events the develop the rivalries between the main characters and their respective rivals
-episodes involving events, characters, or locations taken out of the games (this one would probably be the most controversial point)

so here they are.

-Indigo League: 82 episodes total. Approximately 26 fillers. Filler percentage: 32%

List of filler epuisodes
"The Path to the Pokémon League"
"The School of Hard Knocks"
"The Ghost of Maiden's Peak"
"The Flame Pokémon-athon!"
"The Kangaskhan Kid"
"The Bridge Bike Gang"
"Ditto's Mysterious Mansion"
"Dennō Senshi Porigon"
"Pikachu's Goodbye"
"The Battling Eevee Brothers"
"Wake Up Snorlax!"
"Showdown at Dark City"
"A Chansey Operation"
"So Near, Yet So Farfetch'd"
"The Purr-fect Hero"
"The Case of the K-9 Capers!"
"The Ultimate Test"
"Beach Blank-Out Blastoise"
"Clefairy Tales"
"Holiday Hi-Jynx"
Snow Way Out
"The Evolution Solution"
"The Pi-Kahuna"
"Make Room for Gloom"
"The Ancient Puzzle of Pokémopolis"
"Bad to the Bone"

(I struggled on wether or not to consider path to the pokemon league and school of hardknocks as filler. On the one hand, they really *don't* effect that much, but on the other, the AJ episode featured some character growth for Ash, plsu both AJ and Giselle appear in the 2nd opening, so obviously the writers remembered them.)

-Orange League: 36 episodes total. approx. 15 filler episodes. Filler percentage: 42%

List of filler episodes:
"The Crystal Onix"
"In The Pink"
"Shell Shock"
"Stage Fight"
"Bye Bye Psyduck"
"The Joy Of Pokémon"
"A Shipful Of Shivers"
"A Way Off Day Off"
"Wherefore Art Thou, Pokémon?"
"Get Along, Little Pokémon"
"The Mystery Menace"
"Bound For Trouble"
"Pokémon Food Fight"
"The Wacky Watcher"
"The Underground Round Up"

-Johto League. 158 episodes total. Approx. 79 fillers. Filler percentage: 50%

list:
"Roll On, Pokémon!"
"Illusion Confusion!"
"Flower Power"
"Spinarak Attack"
"Snubbull Snobbery"
"The Little Big Horn"
"Once in a Blue Moon"
The Whistle Stop"
"Ignorance is Blissey"
"For Crying Out Loud"
"Tanks a Lot!"
"Grin to Win!"
"Foul Weather Friends"
"The Superhero Secret"
"Mild 'n Wooly"
"Wired For Battle!"
"No Big Woop!"
"Tunnel Vision"
"Hour of the Houndour"
"Love, Totodile Style"
"Forest Grumps"
"The Psychic Sidekicks!"
"The Fortune Hunters"
"Type Casting"
"Fossil Fools"
Carrying On"
"Two Hits and a Miss"
A Hot Water Battle"
"Hook, Line, and Stinker"
"A Better Pill to Swallow"
Mountain Time"
"Wobbu-Palooza"
"Imitation Confrontation"
"The Trouble With Snubbull"
Ariados Amigos"
"Wings 'N' Things"
"The Grass Route"
"The Apple Corp"
"Houndoom's Special Delivery"
"All That Glitters!"
"The Light Fantastic"
"UnBEARable"
"Spring Fever"
"The Stolen Stones!"
"The Dunsparce Deception"
"The Wayward Wobbuffet"
"Sick Daze"
"The Poké-Spokes Person"
The Art Of Pokémon
"The Heartbreak of Brock"
"Doin' What Comes Natu-rally"
"The Big Balloon Blow-Up"
"The Screen Actor's Guilt"
"Right On, Rhydon!"
"The Kecleon Caper"
The Joy of Water Pokémon"
"Got Miltank?"
Fly Me To The Moon"
"Takin' It On The Chinchou"
Mantine Overboard!"
"Plant it Now... Diglett Later"
"Throwing in the Noctowl"
"An EGG-sighting Adventure!"
"Just Waiting On a Friend"
A Tyrogue Full of Trouble"
"Xatu the Future"
"Whichever Way the Wind Blows"
Some Like It Hot!"
"Hocus Pokémon"
"As Clear as Crystal"
"Same Old Song and Dance"
"Enlighten Up!"
Will the Real Oak Please Stand Up?"
"Wish Upon a Star Shape"
"One Trick Phony!"
"I Politoed Ya So!"
"Just Add Water"
"A Crowning Achievement"


(there are some episodes that it really hurts me to include on that list, like "Wired for Battle", since its like one of only three trainer battles Heracross had, and "Hook Line and Sinker" since it focused on Misty.)

Hoenn League. 132 episodes total. Approx. 39 fillers. filelr percentage: 30%

list:
"Taming of the Shroomish"
"You Said a Mouthful!"
"A Bite to Remember"
"Sharpedo Attack!"
"Turning Over a Nuzleaf"
"Ready, Willing and Sableye"
"Having a Wailord of a Time"
"Jump for Joy"
"A Different Kind of Misty!"
"Love at First Flight"
"Let Bagons Be Bagons"
"ZigZag Zangoose"
Maxxed Out!"
"Cheer Pressure"
"Going for a Spinda"
True Blue Swablu"
"Gulpin it Down!"
"Go Go Ludicolo!"
"Whiscash and Ash"
Me, Myself and Time"
"Pearls Are a Spoink's Best Friends!"
"Take This House and Shuppet"
"Lights, Camerupt, Action!"
"Crazy as a Lunatone"
"The Garden of Eatin'"
"A Scare to Remember"
"Judgment Day"
Clamperl of Wisdom"
"The Relicanth Really Can"
"The Evolutionary War"
"Training Wrecks"
Shaking Island Battle! Dojotchi VS Namazun!!)
Where's Armaldo?"
"Claydol Big and Tall"
"Beg, Burrow and Steal"
"Absol-ute Disaster!"
"Do I Hear a Ralts?"
"Showdown at Linoone"
Satoshi and Haruka! Heated Battles in Hoenn!!)
"Island Time"

(yeah, included the recap episode and the skipped episode in that)

Battle Frontier: 61 episodes total. Approx. 18 filler. filler percentage: 30%

list:
"Hooked on Onix"
"Rough, Tough Jigglypuff"
"Sitting Psyduck"
Hail to the Chef"
"Caterpie's Big Dilemma"
"Pasta La Vista"
"Fear Factor Phony"
"On Olden Pond"
"Off the Unbeaten Path!"
"Odd Pokémon Out"
"King and Queen for a Day" b
"Curbing the Crimson Tide"
"Three Jynx and a Baby"
"All That Glitters is not Golden!"
"Aipom and Circumstance"
"Strategy Tomorrow - Comedy Tonight!"
"Duels of the Jungle"
"Pinch Healing!"

Shinou League: 191 episodes. Approx. 34 fillers. filler percentage: 18%
list:
"Ya See We Want an Evolution!"
"Faced With Steelix Determination!"
"Cooking up a Sweet Story!"
"Drifloon on the Wind!"
"The Champ Twins!"
"Steamboat Willies"
"The Electrike Company"
Malice in Wonderland!"
(Satoshi and Hikari! Head for a New Adventure!!)
"The Keystone Pops!"
Bibarel Gnaws Best!"
"Nosing 'Round the Mountain"
"Luxray Vision"
"Sleight of Sand"
"The Bells Are Singing!"
"Arriving in Style!"
"Doc Brock!"
"Get Your Rotom Running!"
"Leading A Stray!"
"Cheers on Castaways Isle!"
"Hold the Phione!"
"Stealing the Conversation!"
"The Drifting Snorunt!"
(Mysterious Creatures: Pocket Monsters!)
"Beating the Bustle and Hustle!"
"Three Sides to Every Story"
"A Faux Oak Finish!"
Where No Togepi Has Gone Before!"
"Try for the Family Stone!"
"Sticking With Who You Know!"
"The Treasure Is All Mine!"
"Regaining the Home Advantage!"
(Metamon - Transformation Battle! Which One is the Real One!?)
(Goodbye Team Rocket! Love of Nyarth!?)

hahah. no wonder DP is the best season ever. Anyway, comments, discussion, opinions?

Edit: Removed "Air Time" from the johto list, since it fits with my 6th criteria (the radio station in Goldenrod was a game event). removed "Oh Do You Know the Poffin Plan!", from DP's list, because its the episode where Hikari learned to make Poffin, a skill she uses the rest of the series.

Edit: made changes based on some comments.

Edit: added "The Treasure Is All Mine!" to the DP filler list. Even though it makes refences back to "Holy Matrimony", I think in the end it didn't really change anything, either for the characters or in how the audience views the characters.

What's my point? I see a lot of people on here (RickHoenn) stating their opinion as irrefutable facts and playing a numbers game by bringing up total number of fillers. Well here you have it, a list of fillers of each and every saga and percentages of the saga it takes up. Take it as you will.

And don't even bring up "ohh that was boring" or "this was stupid." That's all a matter of perception and opinion. Many people find Sinnoh's subplots boring, does that make it true? No. Not for everyone. Just as myself and others disliking many aspects of Kanto don't make it fact.


This is not meant to spur arguments. It's meant to be a peacemaking thread and an appreciation thread for each saga and their individual content. If you don't like a saga, simply talk about the others. What can be done to create the "perfect" saga for you?


Truth be told, the perfect saga for me would be a combination of my favorite and least favorite saga. Sinnoh and Kanto. Bring in characters like Paul (secondary characters) and have constant character interactions among them and the main group, have all of the characters and their pokemon get some development, epic battles, a filler saga following the region, and meeting somewhere in the middle with their episode count (around 120.)

I guess what I'm trying to say is, can't we all just get over ourselves? It's a damn children's cartoon for god sakes.


And please, when constructing your "perfect saga" try not to say things like "bring Misty back", "bring Dawn back", or "let Ash use only his reserves." This is just for terms of pacing and storyline, not bias for certain characters.
 
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Aquadon

TCG Trainer
I feel like this should be a stickied "Generic Guide to Fillers", as it would make things a little simpler. I'm on board with you though; there's too much complaining about nothing.
 

playerking

Sick of dealing with idiots.
The treasure is all mine wasn't a filler by the way it gave more insight to james. And sleight of sand had more development to pachurisu maybe.
 
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Ash-kid

Ash-kid
For me a perfect saga would be Sinnoh and Hoenn. One, a long league with more battles and rounds, more episodes for the pokemon. Sinnoh, more new moves (which made many eps to not be fillers), more rivals, and a Grand Festival. The problem in both of these sagas is that gaps between every gym are different, I'd want to see in something in the middle, 10-15 episodes.
 

Janovy

Banned
In my opinion, I feel like the so-far aired episodes of Best Wishes are a nice combo of Sinnoh and Kanto. Let's see, so far we got only one filler, we get a nice throwback to Kanto as well as Ash getting all three starters and the bird. Important characters appearing earlier reminds me on Sinnoh which makes me think we might get many of these episodes.

I dunno whether I'll like this in future episodes, but I like it so far. One of the great things Sinnoh introduced were arcs, but seeing how they're rushing by I doubt we'll get some of those very soon. If they can pull it off, Kanto + Sinnoh mix might actually work out. I only hope they give Iris something more as she's done nothing so far. Nice interactions she had with Ash, that I have to admit - but she's gotta have that Kibago for something!
 

playerking

Sick of dealing with idiots.
We haven't had a filler yet. Also ash might not get all three starters but yeah i feel like it's kanto and sinnoh.
 

Janovy

Banned
It's sad but somehow i feel this topic is meant to bash Kanto and Jotho and glorify Shinon
Wow, and you can tell all that from only one quote? No one needs the topic, it's a fact that Sinnoh was better than the previous sagas, exactly how Hoenn was better then previous sagas. Writers have greatly improved from the old days, just now it seems like they're trying to spice up things by adding a little bit of early Kanto in Best Wishes.
 

An00bis

Wicked Witch
There's no clearcut definition of what a Filler is nor will there ever be a universally acceptable one. All we have now is what people view and believe is an important or non-important episode. Some people are only in it for the Gym Battles (seriously) and view everything that isn't a Gym or League Battle as a Filler . Other people believe character development episodes are not Filler because they contribute to the growth of a character; a rarity in an anime where relatively everything else stays the same. Then there were the handful of users who thought Contests were Filler. To be technical Contests could be considered Filler depending on what you value. If you're only interested in Ash's journey anyone else's progress can be seen as a hindrance.

The writers can sometimes be really sneaky with how events play out, too. Their favorite trick which we've seen a lot in Sinnoh and once already in BW3 is writing out a Filler Episode but including something relevant like a Capture, Evolution, or New Attack at the end so people will think it's a " Non-Filler ".

Personally I believe everyone should just shut their traps and watch every single episode regardless of how much they think it'll blow. By watching the worst of the worst you'll come to appreciate everything else all the more.

What can be done to create the "perfect" saga for you?

Isn't that what the " If You Were in Charge of the Anime " Thread is for?
 

playerking

Sick of dealing with idiots.
Yeah thanks thunder some are definitely debateable like snow way out and such others
 

Devastator2000

Are you high...?
Thunder has earned a cookie.
In my opinion, I don't give a crap about fillers, I just watch, enjoy, get cranky, chuck the remote at the TV screen, then Enjoy the show again, then Get bored and post here.
 

streetlightdsb

Uni hiatus
Good thread. I've been wanting to do something like this for a while, but I just don't have the time. Is Rocketshipper your username on Bulbagarden or just someone you know?

Anyway, people need to stop denouncing sagas as full of fillers really. You can't expect Pokemon to not have fillers in it. It's just that some have more than others and you have to deal with them.

I'm quite sure that a few people will come along and still claim that there are more fillers than on this list but good effort at trying to keep the peace thunder. :)
 

~-Overheat-~

Black/White!
In my opinion, Sinnoh's pacing wasnt that bad, and i did not miss any comic aspect from Kanto. Sinnoh seemed more serious, darker at the same time, child-friendly. I do NOT want Pokemon to be a comedy show....

I like how B/W is fast paced, but there is a certain limit. Right now, it seems too fast. I hope it has about 150 episodes, not 80 like Kanto or something....
 

thunderblade12

Well-Known Member
It's sad but somehow i feel this topic is meant to bash Kanto and Jotho and glorify Shinon

I don't know what the intent of the original poster was, but for this thread the only part that matters are the actual lists.

Just something I stumbled upon on Bulbagarden forums. I copy/pasted this here to break delusions about Kanto and Hoenn being filler-free. As the list shows, it's not true.And I know some fillers are good, but if you take Claydol, Big and Tall or The Ancient Puzzle of Pokemopolis off of the list, you might as well take The Keystone Pops, Where No Togepi Has Gone Before, Wobbu-Palooza or any other episode people perceive as "good" off the list as well.


Is Rocketshipper your username on Bulbagarden or just someone you know?

Nah I don't have a Bulbagarden account, I just lurked on there to find some summarizes for the upcoming episodes and found that.
 
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Kaika

Haters gonna hate
Sorry, I'm also getting the "trying to glorify Sinnoh" vibe from this thread. I honestly think despite people who complain about Sinnoh there seems to be for every person who complains about it a person who thinks Sinnoh is the best saga thus far.

Really, you like what you like and you don't what you don't. You don't have to use facts made up or otherwise over something like filler to try and make your opinion sound like a fact and then force it on people. I loved the early seasons, and didn't like the ones that came later which is generally the opposite of popular opinion on this forum. I liked Ash having all three starters, the fillers, and the "pity badges". (if you're wondering why: The starters are usually the best handled of his pokemon and have a lot of personality and screen time, I found the fillers entertaining, and the "pity badges" to be more creative then just straight battling). I don't go around saying "kanto is the best" though, so it gets really annoying to say things like "Sinnoh is the best saga ever." because it has less fillers, has arcs, etc.

Even if what you point out is true, it's still your opinion that it's "the best".
Just be aware of what you like and don't, what what you like and stop whining about what you don't. It's really not that hard of a concept and makes browsing these forums much more enjoyable. In my opinion all of these sagas are equal to each other, they are just different (different strokes for different folks) and it's the fans who like to say "x saga is better then x because of x".

This isn't directed specifically at you, but rather all people who like to pit sagas against each other and tout their opinion around like it's some sort of fact.

TL;DR:
I don't see why people care so much about these things>.>

Just watch the episodes and shut up!

This.
 
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Antiyonder

Overlord
I have to say that The Ultimate Test's status is debatable. On the one hand, the episode doesn't include a capture, involve winning a Gym Battle or introducing a reoccuring character.

But it is one of the episodes including Todd in the line up, thus you can't really air it anywhere else.

Regardless, the only problem with Johto's filler is that most of it stemmed using the whole "Ash and Company help an insecure trainer" too much.

There are quite a bit of fillers that don't follow the formula completely or at all:
- "Wake Up Snorlax!"
- "A Chansey Operation"
- "The Case of the K-9 Capers!"
- "The Champ Twins!"
- "Malice in Wonderland"
 
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Koh

Tamer
Even if this were to calm down the flaming of sagas, there's still the matter of the flaming of Satoshi's team. I mean seriously, it's like the folks here are yelling IN YOUR EAR. For god's sake, just chill out, and watch the damn series!
 

playerking

Sick of dealing with idiots.
The champ twins showed ash and dawn in a battle together and they had a fight then they resolved their isshu's (Pun intended) but it might be debatable.
 
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