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Trade Shop Rule Confusion?

SmeargleRocks

Reputable Trader
I have a few questions,
1. Why is this just being brought up to this extent now?

2. Why are you people who AR clone getting so irritated?

its an AR it will eventually F*** up your game if you abuse it to much or for the wrong cheat or any of that crap, it basically can and in most cases WILL kill your game, I'm with Serebii on getting the AR banned, I hope he can put a stop to it by the end of the year

3. Why over react everyone? There's a reqdin why nintendo never went hey here's an AR go F up your game we don't care, if it was meant to be WHICH IT NEVER WAS AN NEVER WILL BE, then Nintendo would have made it a product themselves, but hey if you made a video game you worked hard on would you give it to a random person and hey here break it or hack it or whatever, yes the games were made on a mass scale, it doesn't mean get 2 games and hack on one or both -_- sheesh even I follow these rules and will always stay at least 50ft away from an AR even when in a store I will
 

Myrrh

Well-Known Member
I have a few questions,
1. Why is this just being brought up to this extent now?

2. Why are you people who AR clone getting so irritated?

its an AR it will eventually F*** up your game if you abuse it to much or for the wrong cheat or any of that crap, it basically can and in most cases WILL kill your game, I'm with Serebii on getting the AR banned, I hope he can put a stop to it by the end of the year

3. Why over react everyone? There's a reqdin why nintendo never went hey here's an AR go F up your game we don't care, if it was meant to be WHICH IT NEVER WAS AN NEVER WILL BE, then Nintendo would have made it a product themselves, but hey if you made a video game you worked hard on would you give it to a random person and hey here break it or hack it or whatever, yes the games were made on a mass scale, it doesn't mean get 2 games and hack on one or both -_- sheesh even I follow these rules and will always stay at least 50ft away from an AR even when in a store I will
1. Because the topic creator brought it up and questioned the leniency of the Trade Forum rules. Seems like it at least.

2. I clone my pokemon with AR because that way I don't lose any of my valuable pokemon when I trade to get new ones. I value competitively viable pokemon (near flawless IVs, Egg moves, etc), and it would be hard to amass a high number of them if the only way I can get different ones is to trade away the ones I have. Many of the trade shops in the trade boards trade to collect similar, hard to get things. Some owners even offer to clone the pokemon of their trade partner, so that they don't lose anything from the trade, both benefit, assuming the trade partner is also okay with cloning.

Do you know for certain that using AR will guarantee to mess up a game sooner or later? Some people like you never touch an AR and also fall victim to a corrupted save file. I know using AR can increase my chances or whatever, and if it does happen, too bad for me. It's cool that you care, but you don't have to.

3. What is a reqdin? Run-on sentence I could not really comprehend, sorry.
 
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bobandbill

Winning Smile
Staff member
Super Mod
Guys, cool it. There's no need for insults or stating 'I hope this site gets hacked'. If you feel inclined to say such things just because of this then you probably should go as we don't need that sort of response here.
AR Cloning isn't considered cheating though. That's what really shows how out-of-tune you are from the trading community. With all my respect, Mr. Merrick, I suggest you appoint a mod who actually knows what they are doing for once (and can put it into action).
He could appoint anyone, but that won't change the fact that Joe doesn't want AR cloning to happen here. So that approach for 'get a better mod' wouldn't change that aspect.

...oh, and I heard through the grapevine what you did to Bond697. He didn't deserve that, he deserves much more than I could ever give. Maybe one day reason will finally be restored here, and people will finally learn to think for themselves.
And things like this have nothing to do with this thread. =| What does what Joe 'apparently did' to some user who currently has no infractions or ban history suggests a) nothing happened, or b) an offsite matter, which is further irrelevant.

Comparing a small decision with enforcing a rule better on a Pokemon forum to the american revolution is quite a new level too.
 

gregjammer

Feather Trainer
Although I dislike using external devices nowadays, I admit that I thought differently back in pokemon R/B/Y days, when I found it harder to capture all species of pokemon, and impossible to get mew and celebi w/o cheating, let alone train my pokemon to max, so I had to then, and now when serebii came along, I learned a lot of things regarding external programs and/or devices:

1. they won't harm your game as long as you know how to use them, and you should only use them for no more than for the purpose of getting values that are important to the competitive world but not obtainable any other way, such as your SID(Secret ID), a pre-level 100 way to determine IVs, among other things that are significant and don't hurt your save file as much, as long as you register what values you get from said actions in one use, as they make rng abuse easier, but can be more risky if you use it too much, or go overboard w/ externals.

2. It's the risky part that could make some threads moot per rules, like, for example, the shiny trading thread, as it will be harder to find and trade shinies without a way to get SID for calculating shininess, or at least until a legitimate method is found that does not involve actual game connection on your part. Nevertheless, the respectful action to serebii's rule would be to deal with it, and if you do clone, do so somewhere else, and not here in a forum that doesn't condone illegitimate things that are unnecessary to make pokemon stronger, such as giving anything provided by the game alone a steroid in the form of a code, even if it has its uses, such as SID determination...

3. I believe that A/R cloning is taboo in my book, just like serebii, but that doesn't mean I don't accept a/r clones from others, but rather, as long the actual pokemon isn't tampered with before cloning, and as long as it is within legal parameters other than the fact it's a device-created clone, I'm ok with it, but that doesn't mean I'll actually do it myself anytime soon, as it's, as said, taboo...

^ I recognize there are other sites to suit my rng wants, in case the mods decide to ban rng trading in the near-term, if only due to the fact SID is needed for shiny abuse. I don't know about normal pokes and whether they are in the same boat as shinies, but whatever outcome they lay down, I adapt to it, with no intent, inner self or outside self, to conspire and/or commit anything that breaks the rules, and I don't complain about mod rulings, either... They have their reasons, and I respect no matter how they rule, and I urge all of you to do the same, reminding yourself that if you act any other way than kindness, you're only making sppf an uncomfortable place to interact in... There is a time and place for such immoral temptations(such as pickiness involving unintentional and harmful elements that involve a game, threats to not visit a forum again if the mods don't agree with you, among other things that are disrespectful to the things provided by a privilege like membership to a good forum like this one), and this is not the place for such things...
 
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Serebii

And, as if by magic, the webmaster appeared...
Staff member
Admin
Now this is insulting to me. How can you say you're involved in the Trading Community?
The blacklist says hi. It's been a day now since anyone has posted a response.
Starting here, a thread is still being bumped. OP is clearly away, yet it's not closed yet.
How about this, can you give me an example that shows you are involved?


AR Cloning isn't considered cheating though. That's what really shows how out-of-tune you are from the trading community. With all my respect, Mr. Merrick, I suggest you appoint a mod who actually knows what they are doing for once (and can put it into action).

The only mod I really respect, admire, and can call a true trader here is SkittyOnWailord, and they may not have any respect for me after this post. They are involved in their TCG community and actually help in their Tech Help forum. They refrained from posting in a blacklist case because they felt they had some bias towards one of the traders. They actually made an effort to trade with me, even though we had polar-opposite timezones. They respond to people's requests to change a shop title or close a thread within a day. It is something you don't normally see in the trading community. If anyone may deserve a promotion, let it be them. They are the true mod.

Obviously, no one's going to respect me for actually giving my opinion. Everyone seems to be a mindless robot, and half those don't even trade regularly. It seems so unfair that one idea brought up by one person who isn't a regular trader can affect the entire community that has been trading for years. There's a reason the English colonies broke from Britain. They didn't get representation for their laws / taxation. I feel I am a colonist now, and I have no representation, and an overpowering empire is laying a huge tax on me. If I could rebel, I would. But right now it's more like peaceful demonstration, because that's the most I can do.

...oh, and I heard through the grapevine what you did to Bond697. He didn't deserve that, he deserves much more than I could ever give. Maybe one day reason will finally be restored here, and people will finally learn to think for themselves.
How about creating and constantly maintaining a massive website and community with non stop information and a free place to do this.

The fact is, while you may not consider AR Cloning cheating, The Pokémon Company does and so does almost everyone. It doesn't show me being "out-of-tune". If everyone was looting stores and I decided to stay home, would that mean I am out of touch?

The staff do know what they're doing. While it isn't instantaneous for them to act, which is nigh-on impossible. They try to help wherever possible. Having trades with others does not mean that they are more involved.

Fact. If you get caught having used Action Replay when at an official event, you will get banned from them. It is cheating. While you may try to justify it yourself, you cannot change the facts.

I understand that this may upset you, but cheating is cheating. It'll not be possible with Generation VI which indicates that it is not something doable in-game and therefore, by manipulating it, it is cheating.

Cheating refers to an immoral way of achieving a goal. It is generally used for the breaking of rules to gain advantage in a competitive situation
Also, what did I do to Bond697? We speak regularly and he helped discover some Black 2 & White 2 mechanics which he then immediately shared with me
 

SmeargleRocks

Reputable Trader
I believe he was trying to say "reason".
Bingo
Although I dislike using external devices nowadays, I admit that I thought differently back in pokemon R/B/Y days, when I found it harder to capture all species of pokemon, and impossible to get mew and celebi w/o cheating, let alone train my pokemon to max, so I had to then, and now when serebii came along, I learned a lot of things regarding external programs and/or devices:

1. they won't harm your game as long as you know how to use them, and you should only use them for no more than for the purpose of getting values that are important to the competitive world but not obtainable any other way, such as your SID(Secret ID), a pre-level 100 way to determine IVs, among other things that are significant and don't hurt your save file as much, as long as you register what values you get from said actions in one use, as they make rng abuse easier, but can be more risky if you use it too much, or go overboard w/ externals.

2. It's the risky part that could make some threads moot per rules, like, for example, the shiny trading thread, as it will be harder to find and trade shinies without a way to get SID for calculating shininess, or at least until a legitimate method is found that does not involve actual game connection on your part. Nevertheless, the respectful action to serebii's rule would be to deal with it, and if you do clone, do so somewhere else, and not here in a forum that doesn't condone illegitimate things that are unnecessary to make pokemon stronger, such as giving anything provided by the game alone a steroid in the form of a code, even if it its uses, such as SID determination...

3. I believe that A/R cloning is taboo in my book, just like serebii, but that doesn't mean I don't accept a/r clones from others, but rather, as long the actual pokemon isn't tampered with before cloning, and as long as it is within legal parameters other than the fact it's a device-created clone, I'm ok with it, but that doesn't mean I'll actually do it myself anytime soon, as it's, as said, taboo...

^ I recognize there are other sites to suit my rng wants, in case the mods decide to ban rng trading in the near-term, if only due to the fact SID is needed for shiny abuse. I don't know about normal pokes and whether they are in the same boat as shinies, but whatever outcome they lay down, I adapt to it, with no intent, inner self or outside self, to conspire and/or commit anything that breaks the rules, and I don't complain about mod rulings, either... They have their reasons, and I respect no matter how they rule, and I urge all of you to do the same, reminding yourself that if you act any other way than kindness, you're only making sppf an uncomfortable place to interact in... There is a time and place for such immoral temptations(such as pickiness involving unintentional and harmful elements that involve a game, threats to not visit a forum again if the mods don't agree with you, among other things that are disrespectful to the things provided by a privilege like membership to a good forum like this one), and this is not the place for such things...
Yeah you pretty much share the same views I do, I don't mind a pokemon as long as its legit and NOT tampered with, but yes 100% otherwise it IS TABOO!!! And I don't approve of any other cheat code, but yes even that in my opinion is and always will be TABOO
 
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Honestly, the only time I ever cheat in a Pokemon game is using Visual Boy Advance.

Why can't people just accept the fact that they got caught using cheating devices? You're not going to be banned, just stop cloning/hacking. Simple.
 

Myrrh

Well-Known Member
Honestly, the only time I ever cheat in a Pokemon game is using Visual Boy Advance.

Why can't people just accept the fact that they got caught using cheating devices? You're not going to be banned, just stop cloning/hacking. Simple.
Nobody here exactly got caught using cheating devices. And they aren't going to stop, some members really are being driven to go elsewhere due to this. You just don't understand why this is a big deal to them, the people who are upset with this development.
 

Ninjames

NOT JACK WILSHIRE
Honestly, the only time I ever cheat in a Pokemon game is using Visual Boy Advance.

Why can't people just accept the fact that they got caught using cheating devices? You're not going to be banned, just stop cloning/hacking. Simple.
Honestly, you're talking as if we've been running some sort of secret Action Replay black market on the trade boards. Nobody 'got caught using cheating devices' and nobody did anything 'behind the moderators backs'. You haven't enlightened the moderators about Action Replay cloning with this thread, you've just spurned them to actually do something about it.
 

dewey911p

primus inter pares
Honestly, the only time I ever cheat in a Pokemon game is using Visual Boy Advance.
That's funny, you seem to be on a self-righteous crusade to stop a mundane everyday occurrence that made many people happy while trading, yet have no issue using pirated software downloaded for free off the internet at the expense of hard working game programmers and others from Nintendo's staff. Fun fact, AR is external hardware that augments the game (a really useful tool to some, a cheap trick to others, or a hacking tool to those with pernicious intentions) but VBA and ROMs are pirated software that are, in accordance with international copyright law as well as U.S copyright law here in the states, illegal. You complain people are using cheating devices for cloning, well cloning is a useful aspect of game play that allows everyone to get something they didn't have while losing nothing. On the other hand, VBA and the ROMs they run are harmful to real life people and just plain illegal. Serebii may not like AR or other things brought up thus far, but I'm sure his stance towards VBA and ROMs would be vehemently more opposed.

Why can't people just accept the fact that they got caught using cheating devices? You're not going to be banned, just stop cloning/hacking. Simple.
No one was "caught" that's the thing. This was something that was going on in the open, for years and no one said anything, no one complained, and many happy trades occurred. It was an accepted part of the trading community and everyone knew it was going on and people either accepted the clones or stated that they did not want clones. When I opened my trade shop here I even put in plain unambiguous wording that I clone via AR, just in case someone didn't like that. As per trade forum rules the mods read this (I assume) and my shop was approved with no issues at all. I had a shop for several months all the while clearly stating for the world to see that I cloned via AR, and no one said anything. I traded with people who do not like clones, and out of respect for their desire to not have clones I made sure to RNG them a new pokemon each and every time. No one was doing anything illegal, this wasn't a clandestine activity, it was done openly and without issue and we even respected each others differing view points. That is why many people are unhappy with the turn of events.

Taking Rayce's comparison to the American Revolution, the issue isn't the rule, the issue is that the rule is now being enforced after being ignored for so long. Everyone knew the rule of not mentioning the cheating devices and everyone knew not to hack, cheat, scam, or do any other nefarious deed here, and everyone followed those rules and respected them. The mention of the AR was not to say "Hey, we are cheating, deal with it" it was to let people know with clarity what we were doing so if they didn't like it they could avoid that shop, or try to work something else out. There was never any cheating going on, no one was ever scammed, and no one was ever hurt. To the contrary, many people benefited from the cloning and were able to enjoy the games more. This was never a secret, this was blatantly obvious and intentionally transparent. Thus it is a little surprising to the trading community that this is even an issue as it was apparent to everybody all along.

Of course if Serebii wants to enforce the rules in such a way now that is his call ultimately. I can understand the desire to keep the forums clean of hacks and try to prevent others from ripping people off. I may not agree with the hard line approach personally, but that isn't my call to make. Personally I think the cloning improved the overall community and was a great way for people to help other people out. AromaFlora use to give out free pokemon to people all the time when she was active and I doubt she could have been so generous if she wasn't cloning (pure speculation on my part and since I believe she is busy with College and real life I doubt she will be around to clarify). Member who have been around awhile usually offer cloning services so people who are just starting out can get clones back of their pokemon so they can keep trading.

Any way, Serebii's decision seems to be clear either way.

Still though, your hypocrisy is quite amusing, complaining that people are cloning and strutting around here like a self-righteous savior of the dignity of the forums while playing pirated software in violation of U.S and international law ... Some people these days, I swear.
 

Candy Coated Gengar

Well-Known Member
I know my opinion means jack squat since I'm not a big regular or anyone important, but I will say that discovering this discussion is going on has made me decide to leave. I joined Serebii because I felt like it was a website who's trading community I could trust. It wasn't the visually unappealing and verbally daunting juggernaut that Smogon is and it was one of the only major Pokemon communities I was aware of. So when I discovered that my favorite Pokemon ever had an event version, it was here that I knew I could come to in my attempt to gain one.

But getting on to the trading scene is hard. People are only ever interested in events, shiny's and flawless IV pokemon. Who cares if you have a regular Mewtwo or Dialga or Zekrom or your level 100 Blastoise? No. They want the hardest to obtain Pokemon out there and it's only with them that they're willing to sit down at the table and deal with. So for someone like me, who's never chained his generation games together and really only got hard core interested back in his games with Generation V, there was only one chance for me to actually approach my goal and that was through cloning. And even then, I only got lucky. The only event I had to my name was Keldeo, a Pokemon that was handed out in the bushels to any Tom, Dick and Harry who showed up at a Gamestop. It wasn't a highly sought after event and practically everyone who was anyone in the trading community (i.e. the shops) had the exact same one I did. But again, I got lucky and managed to get the Dream World Arceus, which started my collection to where it is now.

I have a dedicated cloner, same one Smeargle uses, but I don't know how he does it. From what I read though, with Generation V having no real usable "legal" cloning methods, that probably means that I can't offer anything but my original Keldeo, my Dream World Arceus and maybe that Shiny Yanma I have (I'll need to dig through my messages to see if it was cloned). Everything else I can offer are clones and I cannot guarantee that they weren't made with an AR, because I don't know from whence they came originally.

So that means I have nothing of value to offer, I can't open a trading shop and I'll never get the Gengar that I've been working so hard towards. And that only disheartens me.

This is Serebii's site, so it's his rules to make and I know I'll just get flamed at and a finger wagged in my face (because that's what certain users have been doing to people who disagree with them), but the events in this thread have effectively neutered my hopes and dreams. I don't want to go to Smogon and I don't trust anywhere else.

If Skitty or Bob are reading this thread still by the by, I'm dropping my case against Gandaf. There's no real point in pursuing justice in that regards any longer, especially since I can't definitively say he did anything wrong any longer.
 

Nutter t.KK

can Mega Evolve!
Ok, on this topic you've got who pays for the website and forum. So If he says the Use of AR is banned that is the price playing on his lawn.

Anyway, I'm a not a competitive mod nor am I a wifi mod, but GPD and Newbie forums being the most "newbies" post. I will often shut thread if they're wanting or offering trades mainly because GPD and Newbie forums aren't the place to trades. If they Mention ARs, I mention that AR discussion is banned.

When Bobandbill posted this in the Staff forum, my reaction was "Don't we already do this?"

I am a TF2 fan and I hate to say it they're are cheaters in that game. Not the very top, as they're the "refs" are standing behind you at LANs. Plus your screen may be shown to an audience (like in this fail.))

Can you tell me what is wrong with this image: http://i.imgur.com/pTXZb.jpg That is external "Device" working with TF2. This allows the player able to see where people are. Valve's "anti-cheat" system doesn't detect this type of system. As it's only shown on your screen, but it's usually an instant team dismissal offence at LAN. The Data that is being shown is normally send to your PC but are used to control stuff That info being presented there can alter an players actions, for example I can see (possibly) an enemy Medic.. while it is not clear in that shot.. as the scout is standing "nearer" and covering the medic's info, but I'd have to say he's a 100% health. (The info is I know the person plays Medic and the weapon info Say ****medigun, and only he would carry one. ) The info also tells me the Solly named Luffymix is "buffed" while the other Solly has taken a hit. For a Demoman, this info can let you hide in areas where you can't be seen but allows you see when you should trigger your traps during the match. Well, let just say being banned from the league and being dropped down to bottom Division hurts your chance to get a flight across the Atlantic and the explode yourself in front of Audience in a final. (That video I linked was i46 final and I was off Camera, and he flew over to the UK to play that match!)

Actually I typed most of this out then discovered that I couldn't really link it in here..
 

Candy Coated Gengar

Well-Known Member
Nutter, to be honest, your TF2 anecdote is kind of a strawman. Just because both an AR and your thing are external devices doesn't mean they affect gameplay in the same fashion and is really just comparing apples to oranges on the grounds they're both fruits.

Edit:

I'm also now of the opinion that Serebii should just ban cloning entirely. If the whole reason behind this is to go along with Nintendo/Gamefreak's wishes and to protect their interests, then there is no logical reason to keep cloning as an acceptable practice. As the game generations go on cloning has become more difficult to pull off and the act of "legitimate" cloning has almost always been through a glitch. I think it's quite apparent that cloning is something that Nintendo/Gamefreak does not wish to be going on with its games.

So why stop with AR Cloning?
 
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bobandbill

Winning Smile
Staff member
Super Mod
Honestly, you're talking as if we've been running some sort of secret Action Replay black market on the trade boards. Nobody 'got caught using cheating devices' and nobody did anything 'behind the moderators backs'. You haven't enlightened the moderators about Action Replay cloning with this thread, you've just spurned them to actually do something about it.
Indeed, it's more a 'hey guys this rule isn't really being enforced here for whatever reason', and Joe decided he'd like it enforced as stated, so that's what's going to happen. It hasn't been cheating to the level of say the blacklist thread as intended, nor a hidden thing behind our backs or anything.

I'm sorry to hear about some people going to leave over this. Joe's site Joe's rules though, and that's just something people are going to have to deal with every now and again. Can't please everyone, other related cliches, etc. At least some later posts since mine yesterday have been made without any insults at others, or strange comparisons, accusing people of 'doing things' to users who have nothing to do with this with no basis behind said claims (really, what?) and statements like 'I hope this place gets hacked' which are just frankly childish and unnecessary even if the decision disappoints you. So thanks to those not doing that at any rate.

Announcement's going up soon about it.

I'm also now of the opinion that Serebii should just ban cloning entirely. If the whole reason behind this is to go along with Nintendo/Gamefreak's wishes and to protect their interests, then there is no logical reason to keep cloning as an acceptable practice. As the game generations go on cloning has become more difficult to pull off and the act of "legitimate" cloning has almost always been through a glitch. I think it's quite apparent that cloning is something that Nintendo/Gamefreak does not wish to be going on with its games.

So why stop with AR Cloning?
I suppose in part if it's say due to a glitch then it doesn't lie in any of these:
If it goes beyond the developer's intent for the game and so is using an outside programme (PokéGen/Sav), outside hardware (Action Replay), outside site (PokéCheck, various DNS things) or manipulates the game beyond the intended parameters of the game (RNG Abuse) then we do not allow it.
Glitches are part of the game and require no external programs/hardware other than legal ones (ie the game and a DS of some sort). And there's also issues with traceability/checking (as mentioned before as well, for trade mods the best that can be really done is acting on mentions of it; proving something was cloned with an AR, etc is not that easy/possible I imagine, but nonetheless if it can be told it's going to be acted upon).

Of course, up to Joe but he already stated the above, so.
 
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Candy Coated Gengar

Well-Known Member
I suppose in part if it's say due to a glitch then it doesn't lie in any of these:
Glitches are part of the game and require no external programs/hardware other than legal ones (ie the game and a DS of some sort). And there's also issues with traceability/checking (as mentioned before as well, for trade mods the best that can be really done is acting on mentions of it; proving something was cloned with an AR, etc is not that easy/possible I imagine, but nonetheless if it can be told it's going to be acted upon).

Of course, up to Joe but he already stated the above, so.
I just don't see the distinction as being anything but an exercise in semantics. I mean, you yourself showed disdain over the idea of folks getting a net gain through cloning instead of losing something in a trade for something they saw as equal value.

Nintendo/Gamefreak and more than a quite of other users of various statuses here on Serebii seem to be of the mindset that Pokemon should be unique and there should be an opportunity cost in their trading. I don't see why this shouldn't just be enforced in full.
 

joepotatoe

Dunsparce MasterRace
Ah, I'm not liking this :C

If you think AR cloning is bad, cool, but think deeply, Is it really harmful at all?
If even after thoroughly thinking about it you think it's somehow harmful, think this: "why do we use cars?" why indeed, they destroy the planet's atmosphere, so why?

Cars are an essential mean of transportation, and everyday life would be limited to things that are near you, the government knows they're harmful, but even THEY use them.

Cloning is the "car" of serebii trade community, RNGing is HARD, and beyond many people, and those who can do it put tons of effort into it.
Without cloning trading would be limited to an incredibly small amount of people, and really, wouldn't be as enjoyable.
Imagine, you get your first shiny, and you want more, do you know what it feels to part ways with it?

Serebii is a community, say, a virtual country. You, the president, want to abolish cars, because it seems like clearly the moral thing to do, but, think of us, of your people, what will we do without cars,
what will you establish we can use INSTEAD of cars, since we obviously live without them?

If you can propose an alternative, I'm sure all of the serebii community will wholeheartedly follow it, it must however, be of equal practical use as AR cloning; since simply saying: "stop using cars, it's healthier to run all over the city" is rather childish and will bring about nothing but hate and trouble for you and the community
 
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Candy Coated Gengar

Well-Known Member
Ah, I'm not liking this :C

If you think AR cloning is bad, cool, but think deeply, Is it really harmful at all?
If even after thoroughly thinking about it you think it's somehow harmful, think this: "why do we use cars?" why indeed, they destroy the planet's atmosphere, so why?

Cars are an essential mean of transportation, and everyday life would be limited to things that are near you, the government knows they're harmful, but even THEY use them.

Cloning is the "car" of serebii trade community, RNGing is HARD, and beyond many people, and those who can do it put tons of effort into it.
Without cloning trading would be limited to an incredibly small amount of people, and really, wouldn't be as enjoyable.
Imagine, you get your first shiny, and you want more, do you know what it feels to part ways with it?

Serebii is a community, say, a virtual country. You, the president, want to abolish cars, because it seems like clearly the moral thing to do, but, think of us, of your people, what will we do without cars,
what will you establish we can use INSTEAD of cars, since we obviously live without them?

If you can propose an alternative, I'm sure all of the serebii community will wholeheartedly follow it, it must however, be of equal practical use as AR cloning.

The bottom line is that an AR is an external device not made by Nintendo/Gamefreak or advocated by them. This makes using one cheating/hacking which is "bad wrong".

And as of Gen V, there's apparently only one, very expensive and difficult way to clone. This means that cloning as a whole is something that should not be the normal way trading is done in this community, from what I've grasped thus far from reading this thread.
 

bobandbill

Winning Smile
Staff member
Super Mod
I just don't see the distinction as being anything but an exercise in semantics. I mean, you yourself showed disdain over the idea of folks getting a net gain through cloning instead of losing something in a trade for something they saw as equal value.
Disdain? Nah, just a bit of surprise really (and also at 'I can't do this so not staying on this site at all'). I don't do trades atm (did ages back, maybe would get into it sometime?) but I'm not one who cares if a user clones or not after a trade and not one that wouldn't not trade just because I can't clone via AR. Mind you I guess I'm not in the norm with some other things too (e.g. 'no retrading pokes afterwards' clauses, as I'm not too protective of any pokes that may have once belonged to me; when I first heard of such a thing I know I raised an eyebrow at it. But that's not for here!)
 

Candy Coated Gengar

Well-Known Member
Disdain? Nah, just a bit of surprise really (and also at 'I can't do this so not staying on this site at all'). I don't do trades atm (did ages back, maybe would get into it sometime?) but I'm not one who cares if a user clones or not after a trade and not one that wouldn't not trade just because I can't clone via AR. Mind you I guess I'm not in the norm with some other things too (e.g. 'no retrading pokes afterwards' clauses, as I'm not too protective of any pokes that may have once belonged to me; when I first heard of such a thing I know I raised an eyebrow at it. But that's not for here!)
Well, what I see the larger issue at hand being is the fact that, excluding AR and porting earlier Gen Pokemon, this site requires you to have shelled out somewhere between two hundred and five hundred American to be able to legitimately trade clones on here.

Which is why I personally feel like cloning should just be put to bed entirely, because who has the money to do it on Serebii?

Unless there's a Gen V cloning method other than 2 DSes that I've missed in here somewhere.
 
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