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Trade Shop Rule Confusion?

bobandbill

Winning Smile
Staff member
Super Mod
...isn't that mini modding? Just saying.
No. It would be if they went in threads (such as ones which offered AR cloning) saying 'you should remove it as that's breaking the rules'/'inb4 lock', etc, ie acting like they are trying to enforce the rules. Here it was raising a concern, not telling off other people (hence the phrase minimod).
Don't get me wrong, I totally understand this. And don't be sorry some of us are leaving, that's very insulting to me personally as well.
Well, if me saying sorry that this decision doesn't work out for people is insulting then idk what isn't that could be said wouldn't be classified as insulting.
Here in America, we like to use things called "Analogies", and please tell me if you don't know what that is, because I am honest-to-goodness not sure if you do. You've pointed that out in me before, and I just need that clarified before I make my next one. Thanks.
And here in Australia we know what analogies are. I'd appreciate if you don't try to talk me as an idiot, while saying at the same time 'I hate looking like a jerk'. Because even if you are being sincere with that statement I am frankly not seeing it.

My issue with that statement was that I find it quite extreme to compare this to a whole revolution. You know, where people got killed in the process. The ramifications of this decision of Joe's, viewed as right or wrong, is nothing remotely close to consequences of people having a revolution (death, new country, etc). Last time you compared the case to a murder as well, which again is quite the distance in using that as analogy to someone on a pokemon forum or game.

Sooo... here's an interesting tangent. Bobandbill may get a little wigged out as I use another "strange comparison" so you may want to avoid this one. =|
Actually, now that I read this part I can see you don't have any intention to debate this in a sensible manner. If you continue acting like this it'll be a bigger infraction next time. Others have managed to post without resulting to insults after my warning post the previous page, so you should be able to as well.

As such, the rest of your post will get a response once you drop the attitude.
 

Candy Coated Gengar

Well-Known Member
As such, the rest of your post will get a response once you drop the attitude.
Is it alright if I ask the question then?

Cloning in-game is mechanically exactly the same as using an external device when you get down to the bare bones. The main difference being that, as of now, the former requires a good chunk of disposable income and the latter doesn't. Why is one "alright" and the other not? As I mentioned earlier, it just feels like an exercise in semantics.

Unless, again, there's a cloning method other than the 2 DS one mentioned that exists for Gen V.
 

NoToRiousBrawL

Stones of Baked Clay
Guys? Why do you keep overdoing it again and again? Serebii spoke and said cloing via AR is no longer allowed ,which means you shouldn't make a big meal out of it considering the fact that he owns the site ,and by extension he makes the rules.

Bob the thing is most people in here normally trade lots of Pokemon ,and in order to bill-gate their inventory they must keep a copy of their Pokes ,that's all.

In short, Please refrain from whining about the man's word ,simply because he spoke.
 

bobandbill

Winning Smile
Staff member
Super Mod
Is it alright if I ask the question then?

Cloning in-game is mechanically exactly the same as using an external device when you get down to the bare bones. The main difference being that, as of now, the former requires a good chunk of disposable income and the latter doesn't. Why is one "alright" and the other not? As I mentioned earlier, it just feels like an exercise in semantics.

Unless, again, there's a cloning method other than the 2 DS one mentioned that exists for Gen V.
I do not know of other cloning methods that work in gen five, although there are a number for gen 4 so there's that option (I'm aware it's not the current gen and all, but nonetheless worth a mention. =p Plus there's every chance gen 5 will end sooner rather than later too).

I believe Joe prefers just banning methods involving external devices/programs as they are not in any way made or supported (in fact as mentioned they void the warranty) by Game Freak/the Pokemon Company. There lies the difference, even if the end result in many cases is the same (I think one way results in a ribbon on the Pokemon?) By doing that I doubt he's saying 'if you want to clone you should buy another DS' - he just hates what he feels are cheating programs/devices.

Again, do note this is me speaking for him, although I think he's say at least something similar to the above.
 

Candy Coated Gengar

Well-Known Member
I do not know of other cloning methods that work in gen five, although there are a number for gen 4 so there's that option (I'm aware it's not the current gen and all, but nonetheless worth a mention. =p Plus there's every chance gen 5 will end sooner rather than later too).
Well, with a remake of Ruby and Sapphire most likely on the way, I think we still have a few years left in Gen V.

Regardless, while "allowed" cloning methods still exist in Gen IV, you can't port Pokemon from Gen V backwards, so it's kind of useless unless you're dealing specifically in Pokemon from that older Generation.

I believe Joe prefers just banning methods involving external devices/programs as they are not in any way made or supported (in fact as mentioned they void the warranty) by Game Freak/the Pokemon Company. There lies the difference, even if the end result in many cases is the same (I think one way results in a ribbon on the Pokemon?) By doing that I doubt he's saying 'if you want to clone you should buy another DS' - he just hates what he feels are cheating programs/devices.
Well:

1. AR cloning doesn't put any ribbons on a Pokemon that it didn't already have, unless you go in and actually hack it. As far as I'm aware at least.

2. Nintendo/Gamefreak also doesn't advocate or support glitch exploits. I'm at the moment trying to get a copy of their official tournament rules, but I suspect that being found with glitch cloned Pokemon is grounds for banning just like using an external device is.

3. He may not be actively saying it, but since owning 2 DSes and two copies of the game is the only way to "legitimately" clone in Gen V, then that's what he's reducing the community to needing to do. Which, as I said, is his perogative and his right, but once the crack down on cloning occurs, I just wonder how small the community will shrink when RNGing becomes the only feasible way to keep operating at the same levels and efficiency as before (discluding those shops and folks who stockpiled large amounts of tradable Pokes that can be legitimately traded here before this thread).

Again, do note this is me speaking for him, although I think he's say at least something similar to the above.
Oh, I'm fully aware. I hope he'll weigh in on this further if he gets a chance; I honestly don't see why to stop with one exploit method and not the other when they're both "illegal" in Nintendo/Gamefreak's eyes. I mean, just because you have upwards of $500+ to throw at creating and trading pixels for non-monetary rewards and status doesn't make it more morally right.
 

Dangertrout

Well-Known Member
guys, just let it go. He made a decision, deal with it. If it means you're going to trade somewhere else, go for it. It's not the end of the world. There's more to serebii than the trade forums, so your leaving is not going to hurt the community that badly.
as for "I honestly don't see why to stop with one exploit method and not the other when they're both "illegal" in Nintendo/Gamefreak's eyes." he was likely trying to find middle ground on the situation and leave a method of cloning open to you guys so you wouldn't be completely stuck, instead of going with the "all or nothing" approach.
 

Candy Coated Gengar

Well-Known Member
as for "I honestly don't see why to stop with one exploit method and not the other when they're both "illegal" in Nintendo/Gamefreak's eyes." he was likely trying to find middle ground on the situation and leave a method of cloning open to you guys so you wouldn't be completely stuck, instead of going with the "all or nothing" approach.
Which is why I'm trying to point out that's it's not really a middle ground or an option when you're basically required to have deep pockets to make it work. It's more fair, at least in my opinion, to "all or nothing" it instead of hanging a faux carrot and stick.
 

Dangertrout

Well-Known Member
Which is why I'm trying to point out that's it's not really a middle ground or an option when you're basically required to have deep pockets to make it work. It's more fair, at least in my opinion, to "all or nothing" it instead of hanging a faux carrot and stick.
so you're pushing to have everything banned because you have no friends who could loan you a DS on occasion? wait, why is this even an issue? just go to a different forum that allows AR cloning to trade and be done with it. there's so many to choose from! it's not like you have to completely leave serebii just because you can't clone here. it only affects your presence in the trade forum.
 

Candy Coated Gengar

Well-Known Member
so you're pushing to have everything banned because you have no friends who could loan you a DS on occasion? wait, why is this even an issue? just go to a different forum that allows AR cloning to trade and be done with it. there's so many to choose from! it's not like you have to completely leave serebii just because you can't clone here. it only affects your presence in the trade forum.
Please don't strawman.

I'm not a cloner, nor did I ever use or own an AR. Nor am I trying to get "everything banned".

And as I had mentioned before, I was only originally on here because of the trade forum. I have absolutely not a single interest in the rest of this site outside of it.
 
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Dangertrout

Well-Known Member
Please don't strawman.

I'm not a cloner, nor did I ever use or own an AR.

And as I had mentioned before, I was only originally on here because of the trade forum.
I'm not, I'm trying to understand why you're so adamant on the issue. Even more so now if it doesn't impact you in any way since you don't clone or use an AR.
 

Candy Coated Gengar

Well-Known Member
I'm not, I'm trying to understand why you're so adamant on the issue. Even more so now if it doesn't impact you in any way since you don't clone or use an AR.
But I did use a cloner, which was the backbone of my trading here. I outlined a lot of this in my first post on here, which I believe was on page 5.

I'm adamant because I feel, personally, that this has become a matter of semantics. There is no logical reason to not ban cloning outright when the reasoning for banning the use of AR cloning holds just as truly to cloning period.

Edit:

And I feel it is silly to expect people to shell out close to half a grand to keep cloning.

Edit Edit:

And to also clear something up right now, I do personally own 3 DSes and a copy each of Black and of White. I do not know the cloning method, but that is besides the point.
 
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Dangertrout

Well-Known Member
But I did use a cloner, which was the backbone of my trading here. I outlined a lot of this in my first post on here, which I believe was on page 5.

I'm adamant because I feel, personally, that this has become a matter of semantics. There is no logical reason to not ban cloning outright when the reasoning for banning the use of AR cloning holds just as truly to cloning period.
ah, I must have missed that post. fair enough. as for the semantics discussion, I'm taking this to VM. I think we're unduly confusing the issue for the moment. :p
 

Ilane

Legend Medal Hunter
Has this been resolved?

I don't AR Clone...I custom RNG, but I'm curious as to the outcome of this.
 
Since AR cloning ban is now enforced, what will happen to the Event trading thread since the ribboned events require an AR as the ribbon blocks them from the GTS for possibly using the GTS cloning glitch?
 

Myrrh

Well-Known Member
Since AR cloning ban is now enforced, what will happen to the Event trading thread since the ribboned events require an AR as the ribbon blocks them from the GTS for possibly using the GTS cloning glitch?
....Events can still be traded, just that people are going to have to be willing to trade away what they have and not clone an extra so that they don't lose it.
 

Ulicies

Mild Monk
Honestly, I wouldn't mind banning all hacked/glitched/cloned Pokemon from the community, because cloning your Pokemon completely negates the entire point of a "trade." Cloning your Pokemon turns the Pokemon itself into a currency as if we're buying and selling, and I don't think GameFreak envisioned that for their communities.
 

Ginji

<-most recent shiny
....Events can still be traded, just that people are going to have to be willing to trade away what they have and not clone an extra so that they don't lose it.
umm yeah, I don't see that happening at all = ="
 

Serebii

And, as if by magic, the webmaster appeared...
Staff member
Admin
Guys, I appreciate your position but you need to realise that although cloning can be seen as a means to an end, it's using a device that is not supported by Nintendo or the Pokémon Company. It is, by definition, cheating.

I often see people turned off to the online Pokémon communities due to hacks. They don't want to battle due to them. They don't want to trade due to them. I am trying to rectify this.

With Generation VI, there will be no cheat devices or external manipulation. Will you complain about GameFreak cutting these?

What I am trying to do is create a fair community for everyone. That's all. I can understand that you may feel put out as it's an inconvenience, but it's for the greater good.

The Pokémon battling and trade communities are fractured due to hacks...it's something that needs to be fixed
 
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