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"Trainers Against Clones" club

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Leebui

Questionable...
^Very good points. I have decided that it is not worth me joining, as how can you stop people cloning? And anyway, I'm not 100% with your cause anyway.

Originally, "our" cause was to implement a system on the Wi-Fi servers to stop possible clones from being distributed, at least that's how pokemistress (the club's owner) planned it. I'm not 100% either, my first post on this thread made that clear to her and she still allowed me to join.

However, I told her that her plan was too fictitious, and impossible to accomplish. Instead, our club should be used to help reduce cloning, as it's already been clearly explained hundreds of times that it's impossible to stop cloning, cheating, hacking, and so fourth; this is due to the fact that human nature will always make us exploit things to our advantage. So it's impossible to stop, I'm aware of that from the beginning, pokemistress hopefully understands it as well.

I merely joined to offer the technical reason why stopping clones is impossible. I can see the cloning glitch from both ways, so I'm a neutralist. It's just that reducing the number of potential clones is much better in my mind then not doing anything at all, and thus allowing Wi-Fi to be doomed in which no one can truly be trusted anymore.

No, I'm not extremist on this matter, as said before, I'm a neutralist. So if you want to clone 50 Mews, and bring D/P's Wi-Fi closer to hell than it already has, then feel free. If you want to reduce the amount of insanity, then that's okay too.
 

Ash's Pika Pal

some have to let go
Yes, this makes pokemon unoriginal, yes, this makes every pokemon cheap. But still, think. People want to have that shiny. I've been playing for over three years now and I must tell you, I've seen only one shiny, and I'm damn lucky it was a great pokemon with good Ivs. But other people have not seen a shiny ever in their life. They want to taste the sound of that flicker once a shiny is brought to battle. Same thing with event pokemon, they want to see how uber a Deoxys is. And remember, you have to catch a bargainable poke, a good one, to trade first. So you still go up to the trouble, you just trade one trouble for another. It still requires training and such. It doesn't take fun out of the game.
IMO shinies test people's luck,if you get any shiny you find out how lucky you truly are. But,if you get a shiny from someone else(let alone it being cloned) it doesn't give the same magic feeling of knowing how lucky you are when you get it all by yourself. By that I mean finding one in the wild/egg/event/one off.

Now about the event Pokemon, they are suppose to be rare. By rare I mean not everyone will have one.

A true Pokemon trainer wouldn't put the "lives" of their Pokemon in danger,remember even one tiny mistake could erase the game and that could result in the Pokemon's "death." Everyone makes mistakes,because we are only human. It doesn't matter how careful you are accidents still do happen. Also,a true Pokemon trainer wouldn't use one of their Pokemon as a "trade fest". If you really care for your Pokemon then you would treat them with respect.

I respect your opinion,but I'm just telling you how I feel.
I forgot to say this when I first came to this club;when ever I care about something very deeply I will tend to go very deep into what I say.
 

Leebui

Questionable...
Now about the event Pokemon, they are suppose to be rare. By rare I mean not everyone will have one.

A true Pokemon trainer wouldn't put the "lives" of their Pokemon in danger,remember even one tiny mistake could erase the game and that could result in the Pokemon's "death." Everyone makes mistakes,because we are only human. It doesn't matter how careful you are accidents still do happen. Also,a true Pokemon trainer wouldn't use one of their Pokemon as a "trade fest". If you really care for your Pokemon then you would treat them with respect.

Well, yes, perfect IV (hugs TRU Mew in dying Emerald cartridge) or shinies don't occur usually in events. However, if everyone attended the Berry Glitch fix at EB Games/GameStop, you would of obtained a guaranteed Shiny Zigzagoon. So this is a conditional statement. Why do I bother? Simple. When one presents an argument, one must be careful to be as accurate as possible (or vague, depends :p) to prevent a counter from the respected opponent.

Also, I'm not sure if everyone who joined this club every even bothered to try the cloning glitch themselves. However, the process is ideally safe for Emerald (I can't say for the D/P method), so messing up is somewhat difficult unless you're just plain stupid. Also, the common method doesn't involve turning off the game while saving. The chances of the glitch failing is highly conditional.

I think that sums it up from my "warped" aspect. :p
 

Ash's Pika Pal

some have to let go
Yeah,but that shiny Zigzagoon wasn't a glitch in the game,it wasn't found acidentally. Insted, it was a Nitendo event(kinda) thing. Since,it was a Nitendo event it was ok.

The reasons I don't do the ECG(EmeraldCloningGlitch) is reasons I already stated. Besides,I wouldn't feel comfortable doing something like that. IMO something about it feels so wrong.

I found this in someone's sig.
What is absolute truth?
Go beyond logic. Live beyond reason. Choose your eternity.
____________________
SPEAK OUT! If you got something to say, then SAY IT! Stand up for what you believe in. Don't be a wuss or another face in this world of endless trends that we live in. Sometimes you may have to stand alone, but you're the only army that you'll ever need. You can speak life into death, You can speak love into hate, You can speak peace into turmoil. Your words have power, fear no one or no thing.
-Hotokegokoro

Mankind is in an Corporeal Oblivion. Darkness blinds us from the light that it truth. Fear corrupts our minds and confusion clouds our judgement. Lies become our only form of communication. Hate becomes our only emotion.
I don't know about any of you,but this seems like something that couldhelp inspire TAC. We need to speak out against this,because if we don't who will?


Also,Leebui don't ever say your goal is impossible,because as long as you have at least a little hope in your heart for this cause there will always be a way. There is an old saying "Where there is will there is a way." The only way this would be impossible is if all of us gave up. Since,I put myself into this position I'm not going to leave it until we accomplish our goal.

Ok that's enough of me talking we need to get out ideas together as soon as possible.
 
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Leebui

Questionable...
Also,Leebui don't ever say your goal is impossible,because as long as you have at least a little hope in your heart for this cause there will always be a way. There is an old saying "Where there is will there is a way." The only way this would be impossible is if all of us gave up. Since,I put myself into this position I'm not going to leave it until we accomplish our goal.

It's too bad that the both of us are very two different people.

You think with emotions, you cling to hopes and dreams. I think people like you help keep our world in balance in this world of war and hate.

I think with logic, I think emotions are worthless, and that things can only be accomplished by logical means.

So yeah, the two of us are two different people, so how we think of this is different.

From a technical aspect, it is impossible. However, word of mouth is our best idea so far. You may not agree with my thinking of how our cause is to be accomplished, but if anything, word of mouth will reduce the number of clones on Wi-Fi.

Now if you want a whole philosophical paper on how a systematic ban would be impossible, you can provoke me. :p

However, our current means of stopping clones is word of mouth, if you have any other ideas, feel free to post them.
 

Arion

Ultimate Guitarist
I'm kinda a mix of both of you, you both are extremes of what the human problem solver can be. I always try to solve things logically, then on certain other things I do and say what I personaly think that isn't the most logical explanation, and Pika Pal good luck your gonna need it for this goal, and I concur, that we do need to spread our message by word of mouth. Too bad we can't spam our message.
 

pokemistress

Real-life Gothorita
Hello everyone, so sorry I've hardly been online at all.
@Lee: What do you mean there's no way of stopping clones spreading on Wifi, there's a very simple one: destroy wifi so there can't be clones on it. However i am NOT endorsing that and i don't think that's what anyone wants, but seeing as philosophers are the lovers of truth, you can't be philosophical and say there's absolutely no way to keep clones off wifi!
Yes word of mouth is good. Our sigs are plenty, we just need more people with the sigs, soo... get recruiting! Also if it's at all relevant in a thread, you can say about why cloning's bad, even to use it as an example or if people are already quite clear on your opinions.

Emotions are for better than logic, I decided this today, I decided I'm going to leave everything I know behind and move from Uk to Australia, purely because of an emotion, there's absolutely no logic in it at all but i believe in hope and love and i know things will turn out for the best.

Thankyou.
xx
 

Mli

Cykelpedal
i mostly follow my emotions but sometimes i still need to think logical... but why does it matter?

there's no way of stopping clones, except destroy wi-fi, it's just impossible. but we can make it possible for a person to get a legit pokemon.

let the cloners do whatever they want. we (that don't like it) just have to ignore them and trade with ourselves
 

tomb89

Active Member
Logic is 'How you do something'
Emotion is 'Why you do something', your motivation
In order to stop this cloning problem I beleive that we have to email nintendo of america and europe with a petition which we get people from serebii.net to sign it, try to get serebii to sign it or endorse it. There must be a way for nintendo to program an anti-clone program in d/p, too late for japan, they should record all the pokemon that are traded and if an exact match appears then they should prevent it being traded to make it fair on everyone. Ultimately this whole cloning problem is caused by people's selfish desire to clone, only when all those people see what is right will this problem be truly resolved. But thne are we the selfish ones for trying prevent the trading of cloned deoxys, celebi, etc, which an average person wouldn't be able to get?
I (TomB89) got the 89th post, lol
 

pokemaster394

JESUS FREAK
I wonder

Is it possible that all those Mews' that the toysrus workers recieved from Nintendo of America might be clones as well? I'd hate for that to be true. Cause that would mean that my Mew is a clone.
 

Ash's Pika Pal

some have to let go
Tomb89 that is a fantastic idea about the petition.
Is it possible that all those Mews' that the toysrus workers recieved from Nintendo of America might be clones as well? I'd hate for that to be true. Cause that would mean that my Mew is a clone.
No way,that can't be true,because each Mew has different stats. Even with the same nature the stats are different. Besides,the Mews had different natures. If cloning were the case then my gentle natured Mew would have the same exact stats as whoever else has a gentle natured Mew.
 
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Leebui

Questionable...
@Lee: What do you mean there's no way of stopping clones spreading on Wifi, there's a very simple one: destroy wifi so there can't be clones on it. However i am NOT endorsing that and i don't think that's what anyone wants, but seeing as philosophers are the lovers of truth, you can't be philosophical and say there's absolutely no way to keep clones off wifi!

......What?

Honestly, I don't want to be rude, but that made no sense. Keeping clones off Wi-Fi, and eliminating Wi-Fi altogether are different. With no Wi-Fi, this club is pointless anyway. Also, seeing as clones would/can be spread without Wi-Fi, it would be impossible to stop cloning. Why? Easy, cloning glitches aren't the only way to clone. As seeing this is called the "Anti-cloning Club," it refers to all types of cloning, and being against those methods.

I think your idea on philosophers isn't right. I mean I like the truth as much as anyone, but efficiency is also taken into consideration. Eliminating Wi-Fi would be inefficient, so there's no point in doing that, besides, no one would execute that action anyway.

Enough debating, our cause is to stop cloning, or at least reduce it. It matters not what we think, all that matters is that we work together towards our common cause.

EDIT: Ash's Pika Pal, post your Mew's stats up here along with its levels, I'll see if it matches with my sister's Mew. Also note it may be possible, as they could of made a bunch of Mews on one cart, then clone the save file to all the other carts, thus someone has my perect IV Mew somewhere else in the world.
 
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pokemaster394

JESUS FREAK
I join please, i feel it is very unfair when people who go to nintendo events (or battle over wi-fi in this case) should have their hard earned teams shattered by a team of cheated pokemon. Every nintendo event i have gone to so far i have seen people with either fake pokemon, (however i somtimes beat their teams) it still ruins the whole point of the game. i have even seen people feeding rare candys to their pokemon before they battled me, and have seen them cloning as well.

EDIT; I am also against shutting wi-fi down, it will be a great addition to the game, just to stop the cheaters.

I had a sort of idea of how to stop the cheters, but does wi-fi run through anything nintendo before it is sent to the opponent of you battle, or is it stright there?
 
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Leebui

Questionable...
Okay, master, you need to include our link as well, showing a picture only isn't really effective you know. ^_~

Also, I want to make a point about the idea of an anti-cloning system that should be known.

tomb89 said:
In order to stop this cloning problem I beleive that we have to email nintendo of america and europe with a petition which we get people from serebii.net to sign it, try to get serebii to sign it or endorse it. There must be a way for nintendo to program an anti-clone program in d/p, too late for japan, they should record all the pokemon that are traded and if an exact match appears then they should prevent it being traded to make it fair on everyone.

Uhh, yeah, there's a very simple reason why Wi-Fi is international, it's because they all share the same servers. Also, you know online petitions never work, right? I should know since my second favorite franchise is the 'Tales of' series, which gets no respect in the Americas and Europe. So people can go on hoping a game will be released in the US and it'll never work. The same applies if we were to set up a petition for anti-cloning. Another great example is the fact that all you Pokemon anime fans didn't get your original voice actors back.

Also, by "fair" you mean fair for the person who's living in Spain that has been begging for a Mew in ages but doesn't get any events, or to the guy who's wants that freaking shiny Feebas in return? Cloning is fair game itself, we ourselves should not be so selfish to only meet our needs, when tons of people are brightened by the cloning glitch as a possible way of receiving promos.

Sure, the fact that not everyone gets promo Pokemon is what makes them special, but when nearly all of Europe and Asia doesn't get crap, there's a problem with how "special" our beloved pieces of data are worth, wouldn't you agree?

By the way, nicknames aren't present in D/P, but Friend Code trading will help us be clone free.

When D/P comes out and we all have our Friend Codes, we'll post them here so when we trade, we're (almost 100%) sure that we're getting 100% legit Pokemon.

There, our simple solution to go with our word of mouth plan. See, don't you guys love having me around? xD
 

Leebui

Questionable...
if it goes throgh the same server for all of the countries couldnt they just filter out the bad ones there?

Also how did you get your picture to be the link?

Well, answering the server question, it's not that they can't do it, it's just they don't want to. Listen, it's not like only a minority of people cheat and hack you know, so if a system like that would occur, 3/4 of the whole Pokemon Wi-Fi community would pretty much be screwed. 3/4 of the fan community being banned equals 3/4 angry fans. Also, systems like that never work, someone will always be able to crack through (like the Colosseum and XD filters), and an overly sophisticated system would be prone to errors, making Wi-Fi laggy and unstable over time albeit.

Also know that clones are nearly unidentifiable, so a random trader can't know if it's cloned or anything. So if Nintendo sets up this system, a bunch of people will then be unexpectedly banned without them knowing what they actually did to do so.

As for detecting cheated Pokemon only, it would be too prone to error due to how complicated its programming to check everything has to be.

As for your sig, read the first post of page3 of this thread CAREFULLY.
 

Enperuto Rulez

A true dragonite fan
i got an idea to stop it get another game and look for trades you get them in a file you dont like so no one else can get them.
 

Leebui

Questionable...
i got an idea to stop it get another game and look for trades you get them in a file you dont like so no one else can get them.

I don't understand, please clarify your sentence. However, I did understand the "get another game part," usually, people only buy one version, so since the two versions are nearly the same, buying both would seem odd, unless you're going to buy the native release and an import (like me).

From what I can make out, you're saying we make a game where we can keep all our "valuables" in so no one else will provoke you to trade with them? How's that idea going to work?

Like I said, I didn't fully understand your statement.
 
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