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Triple Up - Awesome A

Awesome A

The Gameshark
C/P'd from my post on Smogon, but I thought I might as well put it here too. idk who still comes here, but if anyone from my heyday is still around, I'd value your opinion.

I'm not gonna bother with an explanation of my many month absence, it's not important, and I doubt I'm gonna make a full comeback any way :/ I've lost my 100% understanding of every aspect of the metagame, and I honestly don't care as much about EV's anymore.

For instances where multiple move selections are written, Bold = Primary Option, and the one I have it set to atm

Basically, this team is three dragons and three steels. Why? Because Dragons already have sick offense, and the amount of things that can counter them is very little. However, they are fragile and they have high-risk, high reward moves (Outrage especially, Draco Meteor too) so if a counter shows up at the wrong time, it's common to find yourself stuck. By tripling up on dragons, even if one fails and hits a wall, that wall will be significantly weakened, meaning the other dragons can sweep much more easily.

The three steels are there to pretty much protect myself against my own strategy. The steels also form the defensive backbone of this pretty much entirely offensive team. Instead of focusing on taking threats down with 100% effective counters, I focused on having 2 or more semi-effective counters, allowing me to adjust my strategy to the situation. Plurality and redundancy are by far the most effective defense tools, more so than having a single dedicated stopper.

Done with the overall view, on to the nuts and bolts:

Lead Kingdra - Neutralize/Scout


Kingdra @Leftovers
200 HP/252 Atk/56 Spe
~Dragon Dance/Rain Dance/Draco Meteor

Kingdra is a cool lead, and defensively, it functions similarly to LeadPert. Offensively, however, it functions like LeadGyara. Mimic is a fun move, and while it's pretty inefficient, it works well against leads that really can't do much to Kingdra (Metagross, Swampert, etc.) Basically, if I'm faster, I Yawn as they SR. I then use Mimic, causing me to learn SR as they attack, which will never kill me (Unless Metagross explodes... then I'm screwed, although they now have one less Steel type). If I expect a switch, however, I use Dragon Dance. It really suprises me how often people leave their lead in to get slept. I then manipulate Yawn and Dragon Dance, trying to keep Kingdra alive, till I'm up against a non-steel type, and then I just Outrage. I can usually get a glimpse at exactly what my opponent is packing to counter Dragon types, and I sometimes get to do heavy damage to some poor sap as well. On a side note, Mimic works against Trickers too, allowing me to play some games with unwitting Jirachi. A fun lead, but it has a lot on its plate and a limited movepool, meaning it doesn't always get its job done. Its ability to se up SR via Mimic is also questionable at best. 56 Spe beats max Spe base 100's after a DD, meaning some odd permutation of Salamence or Zapdos is prevented from beating me... not that important, but useful in pinch situations. Rain Dance could work too, and it would assist Empoleon greatly, especially since Empoleon gets a near free switch in against Kingdra's counters. Then I would not only scout Steels, but have a way to kill them as well. Hmmm... Opinions?

Assassin Jirachi - Revenge/Counter the whole ****ing metagame


Jirachi @Choice Scarf
252 Atk/252 Spe/4 HP
~Iron Head
~Fire Punch
~Ice Punch
~Thunder Punch

Jirachi is an incredibly dynamic pokemon, as it can switch in to a lot of things, put up a reasonable defense, and hit back with an appropriate move. More often than not, this move is Iron Head, which is absolutely broken with a Choice Scarf. Even some water types like Starmie succumb easily to it. Combine this with the elemental punches (For 4x effective situations) and you've got a hell revenge killer and pinch counter. Then add in the fact that Jirachi is a Steel type, meaning it resists some of the most deadly attacks in the metagame: Bullet Punch, Outrage, Draco Meteor, and to a lesser extent Stone Edge I guess. It can also kill all the things that use these moves, meaning it had ample opportunity to switch in and knock things out. People also don't expect a Scarf Jirachi, so they're more likely to leave their Salamence, Scizor, Gyarados, Tyranitar, etc. in against me, netting me tons of suprise kills. A ground type move would be welcome, to kill Infernape and Heatran, but there isn't room for it and the rest of my team has them covered very well (Latias, Kingdra, Empoleon, Salamence...) I originally had only 180 Spe and extra HP, to beat +1 +nature 176 Spe Salamence, but I decided that tying with every possible Salamence is more important than some very minor and largely meaningless padding.

Mixmence - Stall break, midgame domination


Salamence @Life Orb
84 Atk/252 Spe/172 SpA
~Fire Blast
~Draco Meteor

Salamence was originally my main sweeper, but now he's more of a game breaker than a clean finisher. That's more the intention of this set anyway, because without a Spe boost, it's just too slow to sweep multiple pokemon at once. I picked a +Spe nature and max EV's because in my eyes, outspeeding everything possible is more valuable than hitting a bit harder. This is because Salamence is a HUGE threat, and a lot of people specifically EV to beat it. By simply maxing Spe, the only way I can be outsped by something is if it has a higher base Spe than mine. This takes guessing out of the question, meaning I don't have to worry if this Lucario is packing Jolly and Ice Punch. I'm certain I beat it. The drop in power is noticeable, but in many cases irrelevant, because it takes the same number of hits to KO something as it does with the power boost. I picked Hasty because Ice Beams don't need any extra help to KO me, but i think Naive may be better, because although the 1-2HKO from a Vaporeon or w/e is inevitable, Salamence has the ability to switch in on physical threats, specifically slow fighting types, due to intimidate. Opinions on nature are welcomed. The Atk and SpA ev's are taken from the Smogon page >.>; because metalkid doesn't work properly on my new mac so I couldn't do calcs. Anyone have a good calculator that's Mac friendly?

CM Latias - Sweeping and support


Latias @Leftovers
252 Spe/76 HP/180 SpA
~Calm Mind
~Dragon Pulse

Pretty standard again, but it still warrants explanation. Latias has two major ways of being powerful: Choice Specs, and Calm Mind. Any other set is either underpowered or using a Choice Scarf, which is a totally different discussion. I chose Calm Mind, because I didn't need another Choicer, and the Wish support is fantastic. Dragon Pulse + Surf is good coverage, and although it leaves Empoleon as a 100% solid counter, it's the only two-move combo that lets Latias sweep and still counter Infernape and Heatran. Empoleon should be severely injured by Salamence or Kingdra by this point anyway. Wish is there to heal my Steel types, which again, are the defensive backbone of the team. A great thing about Latias and Steel types is that they cover each other's weaknesses perfectly. While this isn't a novel or ingenious idea, it's effective and makes delivering Wish much easier. This keeps my steels running, because although their type is defensively astounding, their actual defensive stats are only marginal. The EV's let me outspeed all Napes, and tie with all Gengar. 76 HP is a lefties number, and the rest went in SpA. Since getting CM's up is easy in most circumstances, the small drop in power is unsubstantial.

CB Lucario - Powerhouse, specific checker


Lucario @Choice Band
252 Atk/252 Spe/4 HP
~Blaze Kick
~Close Combat
~Ice Punch

I wrestled a lot over this set, and this particular party spot has been switched around between a Forretress, CB Scizor, and a Bronzong multiple times. It's unorthodox, fairly limited, and seemingly ineffective compared to other sets (And CB Scizor) but it's actually proven itself, despite my skepticism. Basically, this thing counters SD Luke, CB Scizor, and SD Scizor by switching in on resisted moves and outspeeding. It also takes down Snorlax, Blissey, Tyranitar, and Skarmory with suprising efficiency. Salamence also does that same job, but Salamence is more fragile and takes much greater SR damage. I would use CB Scizor, but then my team has somewhat of a Lucario weakness, because my only hope against an SD'd Luke is to take it out with Jirachi, who can't easily 1HKO, and would have to rely on multiple flinches from Iron Head. I sorely miss the priority, but Jirachi can do a lot of what CB Scizor can. Oh well. Latias adds a lot to Lucario's abilities as a counter-er, ensuring he stays in the game longer and backing him up on a lot of his shortcomings. Without Jirachi and Latias' support, I think this set would be absolute trash.

Sub Sweep Empoleon - The REAL sweeper/defensive core


Empoleon @Petaya Berry
252 SpA/252 Spe/4 HP
~Grass Knot

It's funny how on a team with 3 dragons, the most fearsome beasts in the game, a penguin ends up being the most effective sweeper... while simultaneously being a huge part of my defense. This pokemon is a beast, and while this set is standard to an extreme degree, it still has the ability to confound and frustrate people. Let's face it, this thing is a ***** to try and counter. And at the same time, it's a ***** at countering. Combined with Wish, Empoleon can keep ticking till it's time for him to go off with ease. EV's are basic, as SpA is necessary, Spe is useful, and the suggested 12 HP EV's are useless ******** <.<; I picked Grass Knot because my team basically devours opposing dragons already, while water types are quite bothersome.

Known Issues:

-Machamp: Salamence and Latias already have trouble taking his hits, combined with the fact that the sub set screws both of them over. Oh, and don't forget confusion....

-Gengar: Jirachi is my best counter, and a neutral Shadow Ball still hurts. Empoleon has some luck, but Tbolt and Focus Blast seal its fate. *Bullet Punch on Lucario could fix this, but every move is currently necessary.

-Lack of SR/Spikes/Anything: I originally had Forretress, but it ruined the tempo and power of the team. Kingdra is o.k., but Mimic is still a gimic when you get down to it.

-Wish only works on steels: Latias has an easy time getting Wish to Steel types, because of their complementary weaknesses. However, getting them to Dragons is much harder. When an Ice/Dragon move is heading at my Latias, I can't switch to either of my Dragons.

-Entry Hazards: My defense is resistance-based, meaning entry hazards can ruin a lot of what I try to accomplish by switching. Starmie was on the team at some point, but not anymore :/

That's about it, it's pretty late so mistakes might have been made. Just point them out and I'll fix it.

*Threat List Coming Soon*

Thanks for reading, sorry it's so long D:

Wizard of 'Cos

Hi I'm Joe
Duno if this works on Mac's (I be on teh windows yarr) but here is one that I use(d) all the time with good results.

Kingdra looks...Interesting. It would take a lot of prediction to pull off, which I'm pretty sure you could, but yeah. I'm not so sure as it doesn't elimininate much, or set up. It causes switches, which is good for scouting, but asides that I don't see too much happening there.

Jirachi is a legend when it comes to revenge killing. No doubt about that. He is great, maybe U-Turn over Fire Punch, but you already have a Scizzy weak, so there is no need to elevate that.

Latias looks good, but again, very Scizor weak. Maybe a HP Fire/Recover/Dragon Pulse/Surf set would be more useful to you here. Although with your set you can let Empoleon get a free turn of set up while Scizor has to switch out after using Bullet Punch/Pursuit.

CBLuke looks cool. Recently I had been wondering why he wasn't used as a Choicer more often as he has a fantastic SR resist and stuff.

Empoleon is Empoleon as MixMence is MixMence.

The main worry I have here is Scizor. I mean he can revenge kill 2 out of six of your members, and you don't have a solid counter in place. The next thing is, I don't really see any synergy so much outside of Typing. I mean most of this team is walled by Blissey, and neither Salamence, Lucario nor Kingdra can safely switch into a Toxic or Thunder Wave. (Only Thunder Wave for Lucario) This means that Blissey will stay through most of the game and still be able to wall Empoleon, especially as you have no Toxic Spikes. you also have no Status absorber/Poke with Natural Cure meaning that Blissey will cause even bigger issues. Lastly, you rely a great deal upon revenge killing, and seeing as you don't have a great deal of defensive bulk, it will be hard to get those Revenge Killers in (Especially when SD Luke or DDmence decide to attack straight off the bat). This means the opponent can just switch out, and seeing as how you have no EH's on the field, or Pursuiter, they can do this unscathed.

Not a huge fan tbh. It seems like you may have pushed the Dragon/Steel idea a bit too far, as SDLuke can OHKO you pretty easy as your Luke can just be OHKOed on the switch. And Scizor can do massive damage with either U-Turn/Bullet Punch or Superpower.

Oh btw, heyday alert. Bottom right of the sig.

Awesome A

The Gameshark
Scizor is pretty much countered by Jirachi and Lucario.

Gyara is initially countered by Jirachi, and also taken on by Kingdra, who can switch in on DD, Yawn and take a hit, and then get a DD up itself.

Luke isn't a problem, he counters himself.

Mamo is countered by prediction, and the fact that he's very slow and can be taken out in one hit by Jirachi and Luke.

MixMence takes out a poke on ANY team if he predicts. I'm prepared for that, although it's a high toll. Luckily I'm better at predicting that the average plave ;)

Idk if I covered anything, and this post doesn't explain my reasoning enough, so I'll edit later


I think you're having a bit of a problem figuring out the difference between check and counter. Lucario is by no means a counter to lucario unless it's scarfed or the opposing lucario has an adamant nature.

Jirachi is not a counter to gyara either as it cannot come in safely on anything except a DD, but it's a check. Jirachi also checks mence so whoever said you have a problem with mence wasn't thinking.

Mamoswine is not that slow actually, but jirachi can handle it.

Scizor is not countered by jirachi or lucario at all. Lucario gets raped by a brickbreak/superpower on the switch, but jirachi is a check even though it tkaes quite a bit of damage from u-turn.

So yea your team still has huge problems with Jolly SD luke but thats getting pretty nitpicky. Scarfmamo weak lolz.

Awesome A

The Gameshark
I know the difference between a counter and a check T-T

The thing is, with offensive teams, checks are all you have so they might as well be called counters.

And yea, Jolly SD Luke gives me issues. He's not common tho, so I'm fairly comfortable with that vulnerability.

Scizor is checked by Lucario and Jirachi very well though. Luke can come in on SD or Bullet Punch, the latter being spammed by Scizor's all the time anyway. Jirachi can do the same, and both can 1HKO.

Jirachi can come in on Gyara's Ice Fang or Stone Edge, both of which I can lure out with my Dragons.

Sorry I used the wrong words, but you understood what I meant, didn't you? I really don't care for political correctness, so as long as you understand my meaning, I'm good ^-^

I'm adding a threat list today... this will answer a lot of the questions raised thus far. Hold on...

Oh and Scizor may replace lucario... testing this now.

EDIT: And about things like Blissey and Gyara walling my team... nope! Salamence tears through anything that isn't steel or blissey with it's D-meteor. That means they have a very high likely hood of showing up. I can predict that, and launch an EQ/Fire Blast/Outrage in Blissey's case... That's the whole point of the set guys. Yes, Blissey walls Empoleon and Latias, but I have Lucario and Salamence. Blissey's not a problem, esp. since Luke doesn't care all that much about paralysis unless there's a SD Scizor or Luke on the opposing team.

Gyarados is walled, phazed, and set up upon by Kingdra. Jirachi can come in on a few of his moves, most notably DD, which is oh-so common as the first move it uses when showing up.

Rotom? Pshaw. Lucario laughs in its face as it outspeeds and Crunches it. It can't do anything against Salamence, who can switch in on the overheat in case Rotom gets in on Luke's CC. And I don't mean Salamence walls it, I mean Salamence eats it up and spits it out too fast for it to react.

I'm definently feeling some underestimation here guys :p wait for the threat list and then we can sort this all out
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I feel as if you're completely disregarding the fact that most battlers actually use their brain when battling. They base their moves off of their schema, so whenever you keep switching in Lucario on Scizor, then know to Superpower on an obvious switch to Lucario. The same goes with Lucario. If you switch your Lucario in on theirs, they would know that you obviously are faster or have some advantage over it, so they would switch out. And if you repeatedly switch in Luke, you're dead in the water on a Close Combat.

Most offensive teams have more than one way to deal with a certain threat, and even if they don't have a "check" to it, they can deal with it through means of Scarfed revenge killers and priority users. You'd find more often that not that offensive teams actually do carry counters for threats.

Nitpick: Offensive team is fail without Stealth Rock.

Wizard of 'Cos

Hi I'm Joe
I feel as if you're completely disregarding the fact that most battlers actually use their brain when battling. They base their moves off of their schema, so whenever you keep switching in Lucario on Scizor, then know to Superpower on an obvious switch to Lucario. The same goes with Lucario. If you switch your Lucario in on theirs, they would know that you obviously are faster or have some advantage over it, so they would switch out. And if you repeatedly switch in Luke, you're dead in the water on a Close Combat.

Pretty much summed up everything I was trying to say.

And btw, Scizzy hardly ever spams Bullet Punch due to Magnezone usage, more often than not, his first 2-3 turns will be U-Turn, putting big dents in both Luke and Jirachi.

As I said before (but was ignored) I see no real core, no synergy, I feel you have pushed the Dragon/Steel idea too far, and missed out on some core structure. (As in trying to counter Lucario with Lucario, because you want a Steel type check to SDLuke).

I know you are good at battling, but that has nothing to do with the rating process. The facts as I see them are that you are weak to SDCario and BancScizor.


I just realized he had f-punch on rachi so he is by no means weak to SDluke, nor scizor but like wizard said if scizor is spamming u-turn and rachi dies, your team is open to so many threats its unbelieveable.

Wizard of 'Cos

Hi I'm Joe
Uhh, unfortunately, Jirachi cannot OHKO with Fire Punch (lol) and seeing as how 'Rachi attacks first, there is no Def drop from Close Combat, again he can KO a weakened one, or one that has used CC once, but still not a reliable counter IMO.

@ Skeet, Guessing you're from Smogon? Low post count + Decent rates suggests so, haha. Just wondering.


If he runs adamant he can OHKO lucario with fire punch.

I'm really surprised it doesnt? It probably would with jolly if he ran SR which is another major thing an offensive team needs badly.

Wizard of 'Cos

Hi I'm Joe
iirc, Jirachi needs a Choice Band to OHKO full HP Luke. And anyway, Adamant is the forfitting the chance to outrun +1DDMence, so isn't an ideal option for 'Rachi.


you're right, but if he does easily manage to get the defense drop then rachi should be able to OHKO.

299 Atk vs 117 Def & 281 HP (75 Base Power): 276 - 326 (98.22% - 116.01%)

Rachi with jolly does like 60-70% which only manages a 2HKO before the defense drop
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Wizard of 'Cos

Hi I'm Joe
True. Still not something to be relied upon for dealing with a threat.


This team also doesnt support most of the sweepers well enough either. Empoleon needs way more support from many different things in order to succesfully sweep. You need a lead to set up SR in order to secure OHKOs on most things, and you need something that can actually kill scizor other then a steel type who takes more then 50% every switch in on a u-turn.

I would suggest going metagross > kingdra as a lead

then keeping kingdra as a sweeper, scarfing latias which means you then dont have to rely on rachi for checking **** like mence/gyara

keeping mence as is, going maggy > empoleon to take out scizor effectively as well as check opposing steels like rachi/metagross etc. Lucario can fit in that last spot, but you lose a revenge killer, and a revenge killer whos weak to pursuit is never good (if you scarf latias), and scizor would do so much better over luke to check mence.

Ill give you the sets later or someone can give you them as im way too ****ing lazy right now.

EDIT: here you go

magnezone @ leftovers
172 HP / 252 SpA / 84 Spe
Magnet pull
- thunderbolt
- hp grass
- substitute
- magnet rise

soo underrated, but actually is one of the best maggy sets. hp grass for pert, tbolt for stab and hits **** hard, sub/magnet rise for beating stuff like zong/meta.

Scizor @ Choice band
248 hp / 252 atk / 8 sp def
- bullet punch
- superpower
- u-turn
- pursuit

248 hp lets you switch into sr an extra time, 8 sp def instead of spe so you lose in scizor vs scizor and end up superpowering/u-turning second. standard as ****.

kingdra @ lefties
252 atk / 252 spe / 6 hp
- waterfall
- outrage
- dragon dance
- substitute

standard, works way better in this position instead of a lead, ask someone to give you a better spread later but heres the standard smogon ******** for now.

metagross @ occa berry
252 hp / 24 spe / 232 atk
clear body
- earthquake
- bullet punch
- stealth rock
- explosion

stealth rock which your team needs badly, eq for beating stuff like ape paired with bullet punch. 24 spe lets you outspeed almost all other meta leads as well as the standard empoleon lead.

and lastly

latias @ choice scarf
252 sp atk / 252 spe / 6 hp
- thunderbolt
- surf
- draco meteor
- trick

trick for crippling **** like blissey, draco meteor for hitting hard and revenging mence, tbolt for gyara/bulky waters, surf for hitting rocks/grounds/fires etc.

now whatever i just changed like half of your team and this rate was horrible but idc.
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To smogon (Y)
Rachi does 70% ish to Lucario iirc

Special Defensive ResTalk Gyara does wall this team quite badly.

299 Atk vs 304 Def & 394 HP (140 Base Power): 148 - 175 (37.56% - 44.42%)

^ Your Mence's Draco Meteor to standard 252 HP / 156 SpDef Careful Gyarados.

Once again I say Rachi is your only real way to stop it.

Yeah because people actually use SpD gyara

Awesome A

The Gameshark
I think the problem is that youre relying on prediction to beat certain threats, like Mamoswine, but are assuming the opponent will not predict either.

Hey yo Calum, I'm real happy for you, and Ima let you finish, but Awesome A is one of the best battles of all time. (Kayne, anyone?)

This is gonna sound cocky, but I can, for the most part, outpredict most everyone I ever fight.

I still haven't lost with this team, and I'm already getting bored of pokemon again >.>

The threat list never really happend, lol.

I may do an update today, b/c I switched to Scizor over Lucario... but eh.

Oh and about me not having a core strategy and taking the steel / drag thing too far...

You musta missed the oppening paragraph, where I explained how 'Tripling Up' works. First, I identify their designated dragon counter. Then, I damage that counter as much as possible (I switched to Rain Dance and Waterfall on Kingdra to hurt Steels better, as I kept running in to them, which should have been obvious to me from the start) with the first Dragon. Now, when I bring out my next dragon, their good counter is weakend, and can be disposed of. Most teams have a fall back strategy, and the second dragon aims to either do as much damage as possible or eliminate their contigency plan. Finally, the third dragon is nearly unopposed and can wreck some major havoc. Even if all three dragons go down, a Scizor BP finish (Remeber, their steels are usually gone), a Jirachi hax finish (Suprisingly effective, this is by far my favorite) or an Empoleon finish (Total rape) comes thru.

The double/triple up thing works with other types too, I have a Scizor/Luke/Machamp team that wrecks ****, I posted it awhile back and it got trashed too (lol)

The three dragon thing was planned, the three Steel thing was accidental. I originally had forrtress in Lucario's spot, which is a lot more logical, but I felt that additional firepower outweighed entry hazards, and I'm pretty sure I was right. it doesn't matter if I lose 12-25% damage per switch, I try to make sure every time they switch I do even more, or gain the advantage in some way. Entry hazards were great, but they slowed me down. In most matches, I can be on the offensive from the second turn on, and never slow down. (Not saying I hate entry hazards, I would love to have them, but they aren't the end-all be-all of offense, and in my eyes are more like a luxury than a necessity)

I know it's a sub-standard team, and I've come to realize most of my teams are (I know, pathetic), and have some flaw (The second team in my sig is horribly water-weak, the first is weak to SpAtters with fighting moves), but I always just play around it.

To sum it up, my teams are so-so, but I'm (Get ready for the overblown ego) so good at battling that it doesn't matter most of the time.

I know that's not the answer you all are looking for, but it's all I got.

:/ sorry for the super ego, but I mean, I have a hell of a track record imo

Now I feel like trying to salvage this... gimme a few mins ^^;;

Oh and I'm reading through all your suggestions atm Steez

btw did the mods desert this place? I read something about that somewhere... ; ;
K well I'll get back to you when I see one

Lol. RstTlk Roar Gyarados to be more specific. Stall uses it so their team isn't an auto-lose against Swords Dance Lucario, MixMence, and MixApe.

Woot for knowledge (if anyone remembers who said this originally has very good memory. Like me :p).