Infinite Master Sceptile
Bow to Groucho
Many people have said that the type chart is flawed and needs improvement. What changes to the type chart would, in your opinion, improve the game?
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Tweaking the Type Chart
- Thread starter Infinite Master Sceptile
- Start date
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Gamesfreak13562
Guest
Something that super affects Dark and Ghost. 
Eszett
one love
^Hmm, I can't see that working unless you add a new type, which won't be happening in this generation.
Poison being super-effective against Water is the biggest thing I would like to see change, and something, anything, that will serve to differentiate the offensive super-effectiveness of Ghost and Dark. Hmm, perhaps one of them (preferably Dark) can be made super-effective against Dragon types, since it is often mentioned that Dragon types have a potent life-force and they could both stand as a foil to that life force. Ghost represents a more undead state of being, whereas Dark/Evil could serve as an "extinguishing factor" to that, much in the same way that I believe Ice affects Dragons.
Poison being super-effective against Water is the biggest thing I would like to see change, and something, anything, that will serve to differentiate the offensive super-effectiveness of Ghost and Dark. Hmm, perhaps one of them (preferably Dark) can be made super-effective against Dragon types, since it is often mentioned that Dragon types have a potent life-force and they could both stand as a foil to that life force. Ghost represents a more undead state of being, whereas Dark/Evil could serve as an "extinguishing factor" to that, much in the same way that I believe Ice affects Dragons.
Poison effective against Water. It's been said so many times it's not funny. Water is br0ken because the Pokémon universe of such Type break the expected paradigm of a Type with only one spectrum of weaknesses. Electric, while having only one Physical weakness, has a stable build-up in its entire demographics. Any half-decent Earthquake and any strong Physical attack can defeat any Electric Pokémon with ease. Their Special Defense, while decent, isn't skyrocket, which makes of Electric a balanced Type until Nintendo screws stuff up, as they did with Water. Which hopefully doesn't happen...
Another change would be to give Ice another resistance, for it's too unfair to give it ONLY one resistance. That's why Ice Pokémon are shafted badly. A fact accentuated by another screw-up: all Water Pokémon having access to Ice Beam. Water as a Defensive Type is MUCH better than Ice, and it's worthless to sacrifice effective defense for negligible STAB. So, Ice needs a redeeming factor. Either a very powerful Ice Attack ONLY Ice-Type Pokémon can learn OR a new Reistance.
Now... let's analyze this. The Regis are the perfect example of what could be Ice's new resistance. All three Regis represent solid, sturdy substances. Those that are rarely, if ever, scratched by average/weak physical strikes. Also, Regirock and Registeel both resist Flying and Normal in unison. That logic could easily apply to a resilient block of ice, at least in my opinion. It'd be commendable to give Ice the resitance to either Flying or Normal. The icy nature of such Pokémon would easily explain such change as well. Either the ice makes their bodies certainly hard, rock solid; or the chill emanated from them can lower the energy of the impact of either a Flying or Normal attack as the strike approaches, and the temperature lowers...
Besides that, I can't foresee any other changes. Those would balance 3 Types at once, though...
And it'd be recommended to do something against Steel's ridiculously huge Resistance line-up, but...
Another change would be to give Ice another resistance, for it's too unfair to give it ONLY one resistance. That's why Ice Pokémon are shafted badly. A fact accentuated by another screw-up: all Water Pokémon having access to Ice Beam. Water as a Defensive Type is MUCH better than Ice, and it's worthless to sacrifice effective defense for negligible STAB. So, Ice needs a redeeming factor. Either a very powerful Ice Attack ONLY Ice-Type Pokémon can learn OR a new Reistance.
Now... let's analyze this. The Regis are the perfect example of what could be Ice's new resistance. All three Regis represent solid, sturdy substances. Those that are rarely, if ever, scratched by average/weak physical strikes. Also, Regirock and Registeel both resist Flying and Normal in unison. That logic could easily apply to a resilient block of ice, at least in my opinion. It'd be commendable to give Ice the resitance to either Flying or Normal. The icy nature of such Pokémon would easily explain such change as well. Either the ice makes their bodies certainly hard, rock solid; or the chill emanated from them can lower the energy of the impact of either a Flying or Normal attack as the strike approaches, and the temperature lowers...
Besides that, I can't foresee any other changes. Those would balance 3 Types at once, though...
And it'd be recommended to do something against Steel's ridiculously huge Resistance line-up, but...
Wolf Goddess
~Lupo Di Autunno~
Ice being resistant against Flying would make alot of sense; you don't exactly see birds flying in a blizzard, now, do you?
Poison needs to be effective against water. It's a win-win situation; Water gains a much-needed physical weakness and Poison becomes moderately useful. Besides, it makes sense, considering pollution.
Poison needs to be effective against water. It's a win-win situation; Water gains a much-needed physical weakness and Poison becomes moderately useful. Besides, it makes sense, considering pollution.
Comis Patronus
Banned
I think the type chart has no flaw. It makes perfect sense unless Nintendo decides to do something crazy in the new games. It also connects to real life scenarios.
Gryphon Turboclaw
Thunder Trainer
I've been chewing over this one for quite a while now, and these are the type changes that I've come up with thus far:
-----Normal: Gains resistances to Electric and Ground. Becomes vulnerable to Poison, Dragon, and Steel. Loses immunity to Ghost(possibly).
-----Fire: Gains resistances to Psychic and Ghost.
-----Water: Gains resistance to Poison. Becomes vulnerable to Flying and Psychic.
-----Electric: Gains resistance to Bug. Becomes vulnerable to Psychic and Dragon.
-----Grass: Gains resistances to Fighting, Ghost, and Dark.
-----Ice: Gains resistances to Normal, Water, Psychic, and Dark. Becomes vulnerable to Poison.
-----Fighting: Gains resistances to Water, Electric, Ground, and Steel. Becomes vulnerable to Poison and Ghost.
-----Poison: Gains resistance to Dragon. Becomes vulnerable to Water.
-----Ground: Gains resistances to Fighting, Dark, and Steel. Becomes vulnerable to Bug.
-----Flying: Gains resistance to Water. Becomes vulnerable to Steel.
-----Psychic: Haven't thought of anything.
-----Bug: Gains resistance to Psychic. Becomes vulnerable to Electric and Poison.
-----Rock: Gains resistance to Dark.
-----Ghost: Gains resistances to Water, Ice, Psychic, and Dragon. Becomes vulnerable to Fire and Grass.
-----Dragon: Gains resistances to Normal, Poison, Ground, Bug, and Dark. Becomes vulnerable to Ghost and Steel.
-----Dark: Gains resistance to Poison. Becomes vulnerable to Electric.
-----Steel: Gains resistance to Water. Becomes vulnerable to Electric.
There's my hat in the ring. Is it good, bad, or somewhere in between?
-----Normal: Gains resistances to Electric and Ground. Becomes vulnerable to Poison, Dragon, and Steel. Loses immunity to Ghost(possibly).
-----Fire: Gains resistances to Psychic and Ghost.
-----Water: Gains resistance to Poison. Becomes vulnerable to Flying and Psychic.
-----Electric: Gains resistance to Bug. Becomes vulnerable to Psychic and Dragon.
-----Grass: Gains resistances to Fighting, Ghost, and Dark.
-----Ice: Gains resistances to Normal, Water, Psychic, and Dark. Becomes vulnerable to Poison.
-----Fighting: Gains resistances to Water, Electric, Ground, and Steel. Becomes vulnerable to Poison and Ghost.
-----Poison: Gains resistance to Dragon. Becomes vulnerable to Water.
-----Ground: Gains resistances to Fighting, Dark, and Steel. Becomes vulnerable to Bug.
-----Flying: Gains resistance to Water. Becomes vulnerable to Steel.
-----Psychic: Haven't thought of anything.
-----Bug: Gains resistance to Psychic. Becomes vulnerable to Electric and Poison.
-----Rock: Gains resistance to Dark.
-----Ghost: Gains resistances to Water, Ice, Psychic, and Dragon. Becomes vulnerable to Fire and Grass.
-----Dragon: Gains resistances to Normal, Poison, Ground, Bug, and Dark. Becomes vulnerable to Ghost and Steel.
-----Dark: Gains resistance to Poison. Becomes vulnerable to Electric.
-----Steel: Gains resistance to Water. Becomes vulnerable to Electric.
There's my hat in the ring. Is it good, bad, or somewhere in between?
Eszett
one love
Oh oh oh! I think Ice types will be able to stand out much better if they are made resistant to Ground in addition to Flying. I assure you in this Earthquake-happy metagame that that will make them a hot commodity.
Gryphon Turboclaw, that seems too excessive. We are advocating tweaks, not upheavals.
Gryphon Turboclaw, that seems too excessive. We are advocating tweaks, not upheavals.
Wolf Goddess
~Lupo Di Autunno~
I don't really see Ice being resistant to Ground, as the earth moving makes glaciers crumble.
Gryphon Turboclaw, I hate to sound boorish, but most of those don't make much sense.
Gryphon Turboclaw, I hate to sound boorish, but most of those don't make much sense.
Zim Del Invasor
Well-Known Member
I think that Water should be super-effective against Bug. Bugs drown very easily.
Pika_Princess
Well-Known Member
I think that ice should be totally resistant to water. I mean, think about it: Any water that touches ice freezes, right?
Also, since fighting is already .5 damage against poison, I think that poison should be super effective against fighting. If you're poisoned, you're in no condition to fight, really.
That is all I have for now.
pikapras
EDIT: What about water skaters? Although, fish do eat bugs...but bugs are so oppressed already, I don't think they need another weakness.
Also, since fighting is already .5 damage against poison, I think that poison should be super effective against fighting. If you're poisoned, you're in no condition to fight, really.
That is all I have for now.
pikapras
EDIT: What about water skaters? Although, fish do eat bugs...but bugs are so oppressed already, I don't think they need another weakness.
Wolf Goddess
~Lupo Di Autunno~
Bug is weak to Rock, Fire, and Flying; it doesn't need to be killed by another common type.
Pika_Princess, when water touches ice, it usually makes the ice melt, not the other way around, so that really wouldn't work. Though I agree with the Poison and Fighting part.
Pika_Princess, when water touches ice, it usually makes the ice melt, not the other way around, so that really wouldn't work. Though I agree with the Poison and Fighting part.
Pika_Princess
Well-Known Member
That works with salt water, but I mean more like if you put water in a freezer. And doesn't it depend on the water's temperature? Plus, ice floats on water, so it wouldn't be affected by, say surf. Right? *Goes and fails science*
I think that normal should be strong against something. Maybe it could be strong against grass. People uproot plants and make gardens, so this might make sense...
Finally, why isn't steel weak to water? It isn't called stainless steel or anything...METAL SHOULD RUST!!
Sorry for yelling, but I think that steel types are much too strong.
pikapras
I think that normal should be strong against something. Maybe it could be strong against grass. People uproot plants and make gardens, so this might make sense...
Finally, why isn't steel weak to water? It isn't called stainless steel or anything...METAL SHOULD RUST!!
Sorry for yelling, but I think that steel types are much too strong.
pikapras
Pika_Princess said:
that makes no sense actually.
first of, the normal type is supposed to be a type that isn't specialized in anything, giving it a strength would completely upset this, plus giving grass another weakness isn't really fair to grass type pokemon at all.
and give water another reason to be overpowered? no.
in the same respects, moving glaciers create valleys and mountain ranges.
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Wolf Goddess
~Lupo Di Autunno~
Well, I'm thinking room temperature water; that would melt the ice. I'm also talking about water directly touching ice, not being in a cold place. Can't really say anything about the surf, though ocean currents can break up ice, no?
PDL said:
Touché, especially since Ground is weak to Ice.
Eszett
one love
Sierra, it may not make too much sense, but do many of the type alignments? Seriously, Poison being weak to Psychic? Psychic being weak to Ghost? Dark being weak to Bug? I think that Ice can stand to resist Ground considering that right now, only Grass and Bug are able to do that and Earthquake is on practically every physical sweeper that can get it.
Wolf Goddess
~Lupo Di Autunno~
Well, the Dark vs. Bug makes sense considering how many insects are nocturnal, and I suppose Poison vs. Psychic could be that you can't poison the though process per se; though you do have me on the Ghost vs. Psychic one. And I have to agree that Ice does need some more resistances, so, I'll agree with it.
feebas_factor
*sigh*
Yay! This thread finally appeared!
Ok, I've thought about this for a long time, ever since the "is poison shafted" thread appeared. And I've come up with what I believe is a solution.
- Make poison good against water: for obvious reasons
- Make poison good against bug: wait! wait! don't jump on me just yet, I know bug has alot of weaknesses, but this already existed in RBY and was taken out. It makes alot of sense, too: bugs are weak to pesticide.
- Make bug resistant to psychic: ah, here we go, that's ok than (is it?) Something I hear alot is that bug is good against psychic because their hive mind resists psychic... which doesn't make sense, and just shows that bug should also resist psychic as well. However, I'm having second thoughts on this one...
- Make ice resistant to poison: well I know this sorta contradicts the whole poison is shafted thing, but hear me out; if poison becomes more useful, it'd be good to be resistant to it. Three out of four of the dense mineral-type elements (ground, rock, steel) are resistant to poison, so why not ice? Besides, cold can neutralise (I think) some toxins, and thick ice can block it out with it's density.
- Make dragon and dark neutral against steel: Seriously, steel's resistance parade is extremely stupid. Cut out some of the more obscure ones. Dragon's are super powerful, NOTHING should resist them (thus making dragon moves better). And even if steel is hard, dark is special and shouldn't depend on the pokemon's defence or defencive capabilities, but more on the defending pokemon's mindset... after all, it is the attacking pokemon willingness to act evil that determine's it's strength (right Eszett?)
I thought this little tie in of changes should work well, fixing poison, water, and ice (and then steel) at the same time. The only thing I'm not sure of is trading bugs neutrality for a resistance. Would that disrupt too much?
I'll keep looking at it anyway.
Ok, I've thought about this for a long time, ever since the "is poison shafted" thread appeared. And I've come up with what I believe is a solution.
- Make poison good against water: for obvious reasons
- Make poison good against bug: wait! wait! don't jump on me just yet, I know bug has alot of weaknesses, but this already existed in RBY and was taken out. It makes alot of sense, too: bugs are weak to pesticide.
- Make bug resistant to psychic: ah, here we go, that's ok than (is it?) Something I hear alot is that bug is good against psychic because their hive mind resists psychic... which doesn't make sense, and just shows that bug should also resist psychic as well. However, I'm having second thoughts on this one...
- Make ice resistant to poison: well I know this sorta contradicts the whole poison is shafted thing, but hear me out; if poison becomes more useful, it'd be good to be resistant to it. Three out of four of the dense mineral-type elements (ground, rock, steel) are resistant to poison, so why not ice? Besides, cold can neutralise (I think) some toxins, and thick ice can block it out with it's density.
- Make dragon and dark neutral against steel: Seriously, steel's resistance parade is extremely stupid. Cut out some of the more obscure ones. Dragon's are super powerful, NOTHING should resist them (thus making dragon moves better). And even if steel is hard, dark is special and shouldn't depend on the pokemon's defence or defencive capabilities, but more on the defending pokemon's mindset... after all, it is the attacking pokemon willingness to act evil that determine's it's strength (right Eszett?)
I thought this little tie in of changes should work well, fixing poison, water, and ice (and then steel) at the same time. The only thing I'm not sure of is trading bugs neutrality for a resistance. Would that disrupt too much?
I'll keep looking at it anyway.
Pika_Princess
Well-Known Member
Considering many bug types are part poison anyway, making bugs weak to poison wouldn't affect them that much.
I can see why ice would be resistant to poison, but I don't think that poison needs that.
Has anyone looked at the animation for dragon claw? To me, it looks like slashes in metal. I agree that dragon should be at least neutral to steel. Godzilla could do it, why couldn't dragonite?
Ice needs a resistance, as has been said. What about grass? Ever try to grow a plant on a block of ice?
It could be resistant to psychic...brainfreeze!! Well, that one doesn't make too much sense, but I thought I would mention it anyway.
pikapras
I can see why ice would be resistant to poison, but I don't think that poison needs that.
Has anyone looked at the animation for dragon claw? To me, it looks like slashes in metal. I agree that dragon should be at least neutral to steel. Godzilla could do it, why couldn't dragonite?
Ice needs a resistance, as has been said. What about grass? Ever try to grow a plant on a block of ice?
It could be resistant to psychic...brainfreeze!! Well, that one doesn't make too much sense, but I thought I would mention it anyway.
pikapras
Ex_Mightyena
Mightyena Master
Im also sick of the steel and dragon defence capability it just makes me tired of trying to win,ok dragons in the game would be cool if they were put early and not far in the game.
dragons have to become weak against fighting,think about it if those dragons didnt have wings they would basically be normal type monsters with odd moves.
steels have to become weak against electric,conductivity between electric and metal.water can rust metal.
psychic is an internal brain move type unless steels are robots psychic should become neutral against them.
when two trains collide there both toast,as steel should also become neutral to steel.
dragons have to become weak against fighting,think about it if those dragons didnt have wings they would basically be normal type monsters with odd moves.
steels have to become weak against electric,conductivity between electric and metal.water can rust metal.
psychic is an internal brain move type unless steels are robots psychic should become neutral against them.
when two trains collide there both toast,as steel should also become neutral to steel.