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Types and Effectiveness

Discussion in 'General Pokémon Discussion' started by Skaisdead, Aug 3, 2009.

  1. Skaisdead

    Skaisdead Movers and Shakers

    Perhaps I'm looking too far into this, but what physical composition of a Pokemon's body cause it to resist and be weak to different elemental forces? It makes sense that Regirock or Registeel would be rock and steel types respectively, as that it what their bodies are made of, but Chimchar obviously isn't made of fire.

    What would cause a Normal-type Pokemon to have no real defining elemental features, yet cause it to be weak to fighting attacks? Why is it that Normal and Fighting attacks, while typically physical, do not harm Ghosts, but punching it with a fist of fire will damage it normally? Why can a Pokemon who's body is made of Rock and Ground swim casually about across a sea, yet when hit with a blast of water, take gratuitous amounts of damage? I'd like to see better thoughts than "because it's Pokemon".

    Discuss?
     
  2. Black Diaruga

    Black Diaruga Chahuistle

    This question seems easy to explain.
    I would think it's because an attack such as Brick Break or Tackle simply involves the Pokémon that uses the move hitting the opponent's Pokémon using only it's fists, tail, head, etc., so when it is used against a Ghost type, it simply passes through the Ghost Pokémon's gaseous composition, doing nothing to it. However, an attack like Fire Punch or ThunderPunch is enveloped in a kind of energy that damages the Pokémon. So, when used against Ghost type Pokémon, perhaps the physical part of the punch simply goes through the ghosts's body, while the fire enveloping the punch is what actually causes the damage, instead of the punch itself.

    Or at least, that's what I think.
    As for the others, I really can't think of a good explanation or theory right now.
     
  3. mattj

    mattj .

    they all seem pretty ...logical?...(if you can say that about any videogame XD) to me. Throw a bucket of water on a fire and it goes out. Put a leaf in a fire and it burns up. Plant's drink water untill it's gone. Sounds reasonable to me (in the most general sense)
     
  4. Murton

    Murton Once you were lost.

    Chimchar (to quote Skaisdead) obviously isn't made out of fire. So when you use Vine Whip on, for example, it's face, why is that 'not very effective'?

    Another example: Grass is weak to bug, simply because bugs eat leafs or something like that. In that sense, it's obvious that Bug Bite should be super effective on Bellsprout. But if you use U-Turn, which is actually just a strong tackle with no biting involved, why is that super effective on a Bellsprout?
     
  5. Sonikku

    Sonikku Kanto Starter Fan

    For the question on Chimchar. Perhaps its not only the fiery essence on the outside of that particular type of pokemon which makes it effective to grass, but its body temperature as a whole, too, which can be altered. I'd also think it can somewhat defend itself against grass moves with its own attacks or a weak barrier of fire.

    I wouldn't know how to answer the second other that ''Because its a bug move'' and ''something bug like happens in the process''. xD
     
  6. Bobblefighter

    Bobblefighter Relic Owner

    With the Rock and ground types swimming, I suppose it's body it watertight, or water repelling, to stop the ocean seeping into their bodies, but a high blast of water punches through their watertight layer, causing damage?

    And a guess on normal and fighting types; It seems to me that a normal type is your basic pokemon, while a fighting type took the time to learn martial arts and grow stronger. So therefore, if a normal pokemon fought a fighting pokemon, the Fighting pokemon's martial skills should overpower the Normal pokemon's speed or brute strength.
     
  7. pikadon92

    pikadon92 Raiden Maximus

    Bellsprout isn't weak against bug because it is also a poison type.

    IMO, i think for some cases how a pokemon perform a particular technique (like aqua tail, where the user swings its tail like a storm) is exactly what make it a particular type.
    So for U-turn's case, the user moves like a bug, so it's a bug type.
    Maybe that's not a good explaination, but this is the best i can think up of.
     
  8. Erienne

    Erienne Anime high :D

    Yes, but why are there stupid one, like why Flying is weak to Rock and Psychic is super effective against Poison? And how steel is weak to fighting? Those don't make sense. Steel could withstand even the hardest punch.
     
  9. Mawile412

    Mawile412 Problem

    idk about the fighting steel thing. If someone punched steel, wouldnt it hurt?

    Anyway i was bored so i tested out why rock is weak to steel. i used my dads steel hammer to break up rocks. it was fun!
     
  10. nintendude 64

    nintendude 64 Dropped my balls!

    I believe the fighting>steel thing is supposed to represent a martial artist being able to break steel with its fist. Not a great theory,but its the best ive got right now.
     
  11. Farmermon

    Farmermon Is back once again!

    Yes thats how i interpreted it too... there's also how fighting beats darkness... and how bug beats psychic and dark... never got those...
     
  12. nintendude 64

    nintendude 64 Dropped my balls!

    Maybe fighting>darkness is because of the belief that evil always loses to those who resist them(aka the good guys). Bug>pyschic because some people are afraid of bugs,which would cause those who fight with their minds,(pyschic types) to lose their concentration. As for bug>dark,well,you got me there.
     
  13. Skaisdead

    Skaisdead Movers and Shakers

    Flying is probably weak to rock because of the old saying "kill two birds with one stone".

    These are some interesting theories. I'd imagine many super effective hits are such because of the overall lack of any real reason to add anything else. Dark Pokemon are almost enigmatic by nature, so what would cause them to be impervious to mental attacks from a Psychic Pokemon, yet they fall to the power of a bug-influenced attack? Why don't Poison-type attacks hit for supereffective against any more than one type?

    As for the normal-fighting thing, I've always seen the fighting type as just kind of a souped up normal type, mostly because of the effectiveness against ghosts.
     
  14. BlitzBlast

    BlitzBlast Busy with School

    Type advantages sometimes make sense, but some fall under the realm of video game logic.
     
  15. Aviano

    Aviano I dropped my balls

    If this is about anime, the point is moot because Electric hits ground and type advantages aren't that extreme.

    If it's about the game, one could play the video game logic card.
     
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2009
  16. Ampy

    Ampy Light The Stars

    One, question is why Ghost is weak against Dark... Ghosts live in the dark so shouldn't it not be effective?

    And ice against water, I understand that ice melts in water but if you shot a freezing cold beam of ice it would freeze the water right?
     
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2009
  17. nintendude 64

    nintendude 64 Dropped my balls!

    One could also come up with a real theory instead of playing said card.
     
  18. Aviano

    Aviano I dropped my balls

    Only the anime already did this, by making it nonexistant?
     
  19. Veslfen

    Veslfen Cleverness goes here

    I would think that a lot of those are stretched or outright fabricated (such as, as you mentioned, fighting > normal) to meet the demands of a balanced system. If things were done to conform more strongly with what's "realistic" interaction, some types would become busted and others would just be nerfed. For example, Ghost type- you point out that technically, a ghost isn't physically harmed by anything (being that it's intangible). Well, if that were translated literally (as in no physical attacks can hit it) then it'd be one heckuva strong type. Bug type, on the other hand, would become essentially useless- since when is a firefly somehow potent against 'dark' or 'psychic' things?
    I don't think there's anything actually 'mapped out' WRT what characteristics of a pokemon determine its type. Pokemon (with the exception of pokemon types interaction, for nessecary reasons) generally takes its cues from flavor-based design. (small aside: I'm using language used in Magic: TG; some here might not know what that means. "flavor" means a focus more on the fiction or fantasy aspects of a design, specifically how that design interacts within its own world and/or relative to ours. A flavor-intensive game would be something like Life: you're really just managing resources, but it's presented as life experiences etc. A mechanics-intensive game would be something like backgammon.)
    So when a pokemon is made, I think they (the designers) probably have a discussion about which types it would best fit (if it's not immediately obvious), and work from there. I don't think they'll say "okay, we need a new fire-type pokemon with at least one evolution available along some of the early game routes for the players to catch. The geography you have to work with is XYZ, get cracking."
     
  20. Farmermon

    Farmermon Is back once again!

    maybe they create a giant wall of darkness the ghost can't go through?
    And no clue about ice vs. water
     

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