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U.S. Politics: The Biggest Trade in WNBA History

nel3

Crimson Dragon
thats insane. i wonder how those idiots woukld feel if getting vasectomies would mean the death penalty. they are killing potential life (though most of it wont ever be biologically useful) when they "fix" their buddies. they go all gungho when it comes to ordering around women's rights, im sure they will greatly appreciate it if the situation is reversed on them.

im not one of those crazy people but its just a small rant on how they can assert power over half the population while they dont want reproductive rights curtailed for their half of the population.
 

WishIhadaManafi5

To Boldly Go Where No One Has Gone Before.
Staff member
Moderator

Vernikova

Champion
Transgender athletes in sports is a contentious issue even with left-leaning people. It doesn't really affect men's sports since a transgender man likely won't be able to dominate their competition, but transgender women may be able to dominate against natural-born women. The effects aren't really noticeable at the juvenile level, but it'll be interesting to see reactions if it ever reaches the professional level.
 

BGMaxie

Well-Known Member
Transgender athletes in sports is a contentious issue even with left-leaning people. It doesn't really affect men's sports since a transgender man likely won't be able to dominate their competition, but transgender women may be able to dominate against natural-born women. The effects aren't really noticeable at the juvenile level, but it'll be interesting to see reactions if it ever reaches the professional level.
Please no, don't repeat this falsehood. This cannot be stressed out enough but the HRT process causes a lot of changes and weakens the transwoman in question to the point there is no significant difference in performance between a transwoman and a ciswoman. This is one of the most bigoted and most repeated lies to justify transophia and please out the TERFs, please do not repeat this again.

On a side note:


tenor.gif
 

Vernikova

Champion
I wonder if separating things around sex rather than gender will be the way some organizations try to get around the transgender issue.

Please no, don't repeat this falsehood.
Ignoring the sentiment doesn't make it go away. Even popular culture spoofs this. I think you will find some liberals to be resistant to this for a while.
 

Auraninja

Eh, ragazzo!
I wonder if separating things around sex rather than gender will be the way some organizations try to get around the transgender issue.


Ignoring the sentiment doesn't make it go away. Even popular culture spoofs this. I think you will find some liberals to be resistant to this for a while.
First statement: If by "get around" you mean "completely ignore the relevant question", then yes, some people might use a dead classfication to "get around" the issue.

Second statement: You kind of ignored what they said afterwards, though I don't think they should have said that transwomen are "weakened" by HRT. That's at least, a poor choice of words. Maybe say that strength is "re-proportioned". Other than that, there is, too a certain degree, a measurable amount of overlap between male and female athletes, at least I would imagine.

Also, the trans athletes issue isn't so much of an issue as it's some bad argument against trans. It's sort of a repeat of the bathrooms "issue".
 

bobjr

You ask too many questions
Staff member
Moderator
Reminder that every one of these bans has asked for proof, and none have been able to get it.

The most famous example spoofed in media, about a male wrestler who says they're a girl to dominate the competition, isn't even accurate. The real story is a trans man wanted to wrestle other men, but was told they had to wrestle women due to being born female. They dominated the competition, and now everyone tells the story wrong.

The less famous but still prominent story is a trans woman who finished 5th out of 8th in a track race, but it's weird because I don't see how that's dominating the competition or whatever.

Also we're getting to the point where these arbitrary bans are affecting cis women who have received no treatment at all.
 

Vernikova

Champion
First statement: If by "get around" you mean "completely ignore the relevant question", then yes, some people might use a dead classfication to "get around" the issue.

Second statement: You kind of ignored what they said afterwards, though I don't think they should have said that transwomen are "weakened" by HRT. That's at least, a poor choice of words. Maybe say that strength is "re-proportioned". Other than that, there is, too a certain degree, a measurable amount of overlap between male and female athletes, at least I would imagine.

Also, the trans athletes issue isn't so much of an issue as it's some bad argument against trans. It's sort of a repeat of the bathrooms "issue".
I only care about possible legal arguments that people will use in favor or against something. You stating that sex is a "dead classification" doesn't make it so.

What they said didn't really matter to me. I don't really care about transgender athletes participating in sports, but it's important to make known that it's contentious even within the left.
 

Auraninja

Eh, ragazzo!
I personally think that sex/gender in sports should be replaced by a more algorithmic approach.

1. Gender isn't the only determining factor in sports performance.
2. Gender/sex doesn't accomodate everyone.
3. Separation of sports into only two categories means there is a lot of selection among athletes.
In contrast, many categories means there is less selection and more opportunities to perform well.
 

Vernikova

Champion
I think that it should depend on the individual sport and what helps promote competition within it, and some sports already take those things into account. Boxing and MMA have weight classes to further differentiate groups because weight disparities create too much of a difference between fighters. The important thing is that this is viable for boxing and MMA. Some sports are either niche or really just have people paying attention to the top. No one cares about lacrosse, but it's viable at the collegiate level because it gets subsidized by other programs such as men's football and maybe men's basketball. But men's football and basketball sometimes isn't enough to subsidize other sports programs, which may cause schools to have less sports programs.

From the juvenile to the professional level, viability is the most important thing, and if something isn't viable then it needs to be funded. Most collegiate sports programs outside of men's football and some men's basketball teams operate at a loss, so colleges may offer fewer athletic programs. In America, at the professional level, this is seen with the NBA propping up the WNBA, which operates at a loss, in contrast to women's tennis, which is profitable. The issue is, though, that these other programs and divisions need to have some viability. A sport can't diversify too much.

It makes more sense just to try and normalize transgender athletes in their gender's sport of choice at the lower levels than trying to diversify sports divisions that might already be subsidizing programs that are already not viable.
 

nel3

Crimson Dragon
so apparently that angry orange found his way around the twitterban. he writes the twitter length letter and has his lackeys/idiots post that online.
 

nel3

Crimson Dragon
It's a bit hilarious his "tweets" come in the form of messages from his office.

If he has an office.
It took some time but maybe those were the messages he was trying to release shortly after the ban but before he lost his office. I hope any idiots that ghost post for him get the ban. Isn't his office these days a good cart? I doubt he's doing anything substantial in golf land.
 

RileyXY1

Young Battle Trainer
Marjorie Taylor Greene is so stupid she didn't even know that Guam was a U.S. territory.
 

Vernikova

Champion
Please show your work. Note: Centrists do not lean left.
Here's a 5 second Google search:

March 6-8, 2021: https://www.politico.com/f/?id=00000178-1a7a-d750-a77a-3efba0ac0000

Table POL20: As you may know, Mississippi is moving towards banning transgender athletes from participating on women’s sports teams at the state’s high schools and universities. Based on what you know, do you support or oppose banning transgender athletes from competing on women’s sports teams?

Ideology Liberal: 35% (strongly support or somewhat support) vs 50% (strongly oppose or somewhat oppose) with 15% unsure.
Gen Z: 43% (strongly support or somewhat support) vs 44% (strongly oppose or somewhat oppose)
Millennials: 56% vs 28%
18-34: 51% vs 28%
Bach. degree: 55% vs 33%

As you anticipated with your demand, it becomes more contentious the more to the right you go, and other generally left-leaning groups (post-grads, higher income levels, Dem men, Dem women, etc) show that at least 1 in 4 support a ban at some level.

There are other polls that show is as contentious among Americans but with no breakdown offered. Democrats generally favor allowing participation over Republicans:

Polling has shown that Americans' opinions on transgender rights differ based on the specific topic being discussed.

For example, a 2019 poll from the Public Religion Research Institute showed that a solid majority of Americans (62%) said they had grown more supportive of transgender rights as a whole over the prior five years. And 7 in 10 Americans told Gallup that year that they support transgender people openly serving in the military.

However, Americans were more evenly split on which bathrooms they believed transgender people should use. 2018 polling from PRRI likewise showed Americans only slightly in favor of transgender girls playing sports with other girls.


But to suggest that it's not contentious is kind of weird. Transgender rights is relatively new to the American mainstream. It makes more sense that there is pushback even from the left in America, which is generally more conservative.
 
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