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U.S. Politics 2021: Ignore the Neighslayers

WishIhadaManafi5

To Boldly Go Where No One Has Gone Before.
Staff member
Moderator
Exactly Bolt. And they're being pushed over to the right not just by their own party but by the GOP as well.

Anyone who holds any kind of left wing idea is shamed for it.

Thing is a lot that is in America, such as libraries and so on are rooted in socialism.

People are just trained to dislike almost anything that helps others. It's not going too far for people, it's going too far for the status quo and corporations/corporate donors.

To be honest, it's gotten to the point where their games are noticeable.

When the Rs win, the Ds talk about change and the Rs make a mess.

When the Ds win, the Rs complain about change and the Ds have to clean up the Rs mess.
 

JourneymanN00b

Well-Known Member
This really isn't new. Bolt's video shows that this has been going on since, egad, 1972, after conservative Democrats decided to turn traitor and endorse Nixon over McGovern. Since then, the Democrats have been running right and never looking back. Every Democratic president since then has come from either the pro-corporate (Clinton, Obama, Biden) or the heavily evangelical sectors (Carter). Any remotely progressive Democrat (according to world standards) from 1976 onward has been shut out of the presidential nomination due to "socialist" or "woke" concerns. When it comes to actually passing sensible laws, this playbook Does. Not. Work. Anymore. And yet many Democrats (not all, however) still are running this playbook in the wrong areas.

But this is not news to most of us here.

By the way, I have connections to some of the congressional races (House and Senate) that might warrant discussion. What are the rules for posting links to campaign websites and donation pages? I would like to be informative as possible for the true status of these races, but I do want to respect the rules in this forum.
 
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nel3

Crimson Dragon
I think a round of 7.62x39 mm bullets would be more appropriate than a 100t hydraulic press, since these traitors love their AK47s. Until gun control is enacted in a sensible manner (which I *do* support), I think we need to use our 2A rights to our fullest to take up arms against those traitors, since the next American version of Kristallnacht will definitely see hordes of fascists carrying guns to carry out their twisted version of 1776. Maybe minds will be changed and we can actually get assault rifle bans in place in the near future (which is definitely not happening in this environment).

I must admit that some of the crazies are beyond saving. They'd need very deep and long term deprograming that would cost many hundreds of millions. Might be able to save some of them but not everyone. If they decide to act first and adopt a friend into their bodies then why not let them do that. If USA does get back from the brink it will take more than a decade to get to "normal" democracy. Even without the crazies, the republicans have become extremely corrupted. The Ds are corrupted enough by corporations and self interset as it is ATM but they just aren't as evil; heartless and out of touch? Sure.
 

Bolt the Cat

Bringing the Thunder
Exactly Bolt. And they're being pushed over to the right not just by their own party but by the GOP as well.

Anyone who holds any kind of left wing idea is shamed for it.

Thing is a lot that is in America, such as libraries and so on are rooted in socialism.

People are just trained to dislike almost anything that helps others. It's not going too far for people, it's going too far for the status quo and corporations/corporate donors.

To be honest, it's gotten to the point where their games are noticeable.

When the Rs win, the Ds talk about change and the Rs make a mess.

When the Ds win, the Rs complain about change and the Ds have to clean up the Rs mess.

This really isn't new. Bolt's video shows that this has been going on since, egad, 1972, after conservative Democrats decided to turn traitor and endorse Nixon over McGovern. Since then, the Democrats have been running right and never looking back. Every Democratic president since then has come from either the pro-corporate (Clinton, Obama, Biden) or the heavily evangelical sectors (Carter). Any remotely progressive Democrat (according to world standards) from 1976 onward has been shut out of the presidential nomination due to "socialist" or "woke" concerns. When it comes to actually passing sensible laws, this playbook Does. Not. Work. Anymore. And yet many Democrats (not all, however) still are running this playbook in the wrong areas.

But this is not news to most of us here.

I think you're both missing the point slightly. It's not simply that the Democrats are merely reversing the Republicans' policies and shutting out any true, left wing policies, it's that they're setting things back further right than when they started. In other words, the Republicans take 2 steps right and the Democrats take only 1 step left. Then the Republicans take another 2 steps right and the Democrats only take another 1 step left. So by the end of all of that, we're 2 steps right from where we've started instead of back at square one. That's what defines a Ratchet Effect, movement in one direction with any attempts to reverse course stopped before it can fully revert back so that in the big picture, it just continues moving further and further in that direction.

I think this might actually be intentional on the Democrats' part. They may be ineffective by design, they might not want to be effective because they're beholden to the same corporate interests that are paying the Republicans to implement the fascist policies that they are because the corporations and both political parties benefit financially from the status quo. I think Democrats are simply creating the illusion of progress while secretly going along with the Republican's march towards fascism, and there's a lot more Manchins and Sinemas in the Democrats than we're led to believe. I don't really have any definitive proof of this, but it wouldn't be surprising at all and makes perfect sense for them. After all, if you're in a position of power and getting paid thousands, maybe even millions of dollars by corporate interests, why would you enact policies that bite the hand that feeds you? They'd be shooting themselves in the foot delivering on their promises. I think the whole left vs. right division in this country is a sham. The real conflict isn't left vs. right or white vs. non-white. It's rich vs. poor.
 

JourneymanN00b

Well-Known Member
Below is my post to mark the 1 year anniversary of the Insurrection:

For those of us who understandably want this fascist dead for his insurrection exactly one year ago, I suggest you play this game as a stress reliever instead of trying to kill him.


I pray to God to all of the domestic terrorists who stormed to the Capitol on that day will be jailed, shot, hanged, poisoned, die of COVID, or be prevented from voting by some other means before November 8, as they will kill us (and any sane person) at the first opportunity to promote their racist and fascist ways. We will never move on unless all of them are sent to hell and rot there. It is a sad world, but we will need to arm up and defend ourselves from these murderers until sensible gun control measures are enacted.

I also pray that people take the law into their own hands and remove alt-right Republicans in the House and the Senate such as Paul Gosar, Marjorie Taylor Greene, Ted Cruz, and Josh Hawley from this world, as they will not be voted out or expelled from their offices anytime soon. All of these people have demonstrated that they encourage violence and would kill all of us if they have the chance in the name of promoting racism and fascism, and we need to encourage more immediate means to erase this type of scum from any public office and send them to a world of eternal pain.


Sadly, this will not happen, and we will enter a new world of darkness on November 8 due to the infamous incompetence of the Democratic Party. The only options for us are to either arm up or get the hell out of America before that cursed day comes.
 
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Auraninja

Eh, ragazzo!
If we say that we need to arm ourselves against facists, are we basically admitting that Wayne LaPierre was right that only good guys with guns can stop bad guys with guns? Granted, without guns, this predicament wouldn't really exist, but that isn't the present reality.

Nothing makes me feel even more safe that bullets flying around, and I'm sure there will be absolutely be no repercussions for targeting a group of people like that, since we can surely eliminate all of the facists so they won't fight back, and innocents won't get caught up in this.
 

Divine Retribution

He is that guy.
As someone who owns exactly two firearms and has no intentions of acquiring any more, I don't think purchasing a gun to protect yourself is inherently a bad idea (maybe it would be better if nobody had guns, but that's not the world we live in right now), but I also don't think it's a get out of jail free card if **** were to hit the fan, or even the most important thing you could be doing with your time and money for most people. I certainly don't think buying a whole arsenal is a great strategy right now. If you're genuinely concerned about a white nationalist uprising and feel that you won't be safe in this country, maybe a firearm of some sort should be on your shopping list if you can afford what will likely be a short-term investment, but you should probably be looking at other places you can move to. Moving to another country isn't cheap, so there's no point spending thousands of dollars on a gun you likely won't even need once you get there, and may not be able to bring.

There's a lot of moral baggage associated with owning and carrying a firearm as well. At the end of the day violence is always a net loss to all of us as a species, and so taking up the capacity to do violence, even in defense of yourself or your family, is a moral compromise, and it's not a moral compromise that everyone is or should be willing to make.

There's also the inescapable fact that most of the fascists already own guns, and have been using them their whole lives. A lot of them are extremely militaristic Spec-Ops roleplay types who spend a lot of time and money training with those guns. Sure, a lot of that "training" is essentially useless LARP drills but the fact of the matter is they have a lot more experience with those guns than your typical new gun owner, and likely a lot less moral compunction about using them on people they already see as inherently inferior. This is not a fight you want to fight if you can avoid it.
 

Auraninja

Eh, ragazzo!
As someone who owns exactly two firearms and has no intentions of acquiring any more, I don't think purchasing a gun to protect yourself is inherently a bad idea (maybe it would be better if nobody had guns, but that's not the world we live in right now), but I also don't think it's a get out of jail free card if **** were to hit the fan, or even the most important thing you could be doing with your time and money for most people. I certainly don't think buying a whole arsenal is a great strategy right now. If you're genuinely concerned about a white nationalist uprising and feel that you won't be safe in this country, maybe a firearm of some sort should be on your shopping list if you can afford what will likely be a short-term investment, but you should probably be looking at other places you can move to. Moving to another country isn't cheap, so there's no point spending thousands of dollars on a gun you likely won't even need once you get there, and may not be able to bring.
I was referring less toward "arm to defend yourself" and more towards "arm to go on a manhunt".
Keep in mind that I am not necessarily talking about good people on the other end.

If a Nazi breaks down your door and is going to shoot you and you happen to have a gun nearby, that would be a much more justifable situation.
That is not the notion I was frowning upon.
 

Divine Retribution

He is that guy.
I was referring less toward "arm to defend yourself" and more towards "arm to go on a manhunt".
Keep in mind that I am not necessarily talking about good people on the other end.

If a Nazi breaks down your door and is going to shoot you and you happen to have a gun nearby, that would be a much more justifable situation.
That is not the notion I was frowning upon.
Yeah, I can absolutely agree to that. Encouraging armed manhunts against fascists who would love to justify their own armed manhunts is a terrible idea.
 

SBaby

Dungeon Master
Yeah, I can absolutely agree to that. Encouraging armed manhunts against fascists who would love to justify their own armed manhunts is a terrible idea.
And here's why it's a bad idea. You start out with facists, which might sound great. But then you start going after armed robbers and murderers who aren't facists. Then you start going after petty thieves. Then eventually you start going after speeders and smokers. And eventually you just go after anyone who has an opinion that is different from yours. And before you know it, you've become a facist yourself. You've become the very thing you hate.
 

Divine Retribution

He is that guy.
And here's why it's a bad idea. You start out with facists, which might sound great. But then you start going after armed robbers and murderers who aren't facists. Then you start going after petty thieves. Then eventually you start going after speeders and smokers. And eventually you just go after anyone who has an opinion that is different from yours. And before you know it, you've become a facist yourself. You've become the very thing you hate.
I'm not convinced the slippery slope argument actually applies here. It's a bit like saying "First you invade Germany to fight the Nazis, then you invade Italy because they helped the Nazis, then you invade France because they capitulated to the Nazis, then you invade England because they didn't resist the Nazis hard enough". Is that an accurate description of what would actually happen? Based on what, exactly? Why would I ever go after petty thieves, speeders and smokers? They are very clearly not a threat to my life and the lives of my fellow people (especially minorities) in the way that far-right fascists are.

I would say it's a bad idea for two reasons. One, because I believe violence is inherently wrong and engaging in it can only ever be considered morally justified if it's the only option available to prevent a greater act of violence (and I am as of yet unconvinced that we have exhausted all other alternatives), and two because, as I've already said, the fascists are simply better at violence than we are.
 

Trainer Yusuf

VolcaniNO

Seems like Kazakh affair is over. Oh well.

Russian demands on US on the Monday (10 January 2022) summit were quite ridiculous (as they effectively demanded NATO to undo the expansion since 1997), but Biden has already confirmed they will reduce troops in Eastern and Central Europe, and won't focus on Ukraine and Georgia joining NATO (which, as we previously discussed before, is currently legally impossible anyway).

Even if Russia somehow tries to dig further into Ukrainian territory (full scale invasion of Ukraine is basically impossible, so is takeover of Kiev, at least for the time being), USA, despite its bluster, has been deeply committed to non-action and apathy, which is a good thing. Biden admin. knows that Putin, like DPRK has historically done, is just waiting for the current administration to succeed to the next one (aka Trump 2.0). So instead of making empty promises for Ukraine that will be undone by the next guy, they are being serious about this.

However, NATO expansion will obviously go on, not to the East, but to the South, as Bosnia, and Kosovo are still the primary targets for expansion. Both Biden and Putin know Putin can't do much about this beyond supporting Serbia, despite Putin's low-budget failed attempts in Montenegro and Macedonia to delay the inevitable (which, I remind you, happened during a pro-Russian US presidency, ie. Former Guy). And supporting Serbia is probably a cr*pshoot anyway, since Serbia has one more historical ally, UK (or rather UK Tories), and their primary objective is to still to join EU.

Obviously current situation just kicks the can of a major Russia-USA impasse further down to 2030s, but that's more or less what Bush Jr. and Obama did, so we can't say there isn't a policy continuation here.

(As for those wondering why US just doesn't give Ukraine and Georgia Major Non-NATO Ally status, prospective NATO countries aren't given this status. Doing so as a temporary measure would clear much headache, but US foreign policy blob is dominated by dumb people.)
 
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SBaby

Dungeon Master
I'm not convinced the slippery slope argument actually applies here. It's a bit like saying "First you invade Germany to fight the Nazis, then you invade Italy because they helped the Nazis, then you invade France because they capitulated to the Nazis, then you invade England because they didn't resist the Nazis hard enough". Is that an accurate description of what would actually happen? Based on what, exactly? Why would I ever go after petty thieves, speeders and smokers? They are very clearly not a threat to my life and the lives of my fellow people (especially minorities) in the way that far-right fascists are.

I would say it's a bad idea for two reasons. One, because I believe violence is inherently wrong and engaging in it can only ever be considered morally justified if it's the only option available to prevent a greater act of violence (and I am as of yet unconvinced that we have exhausted all other alternatives), and two because, as I've already said, the fascists are simply better at violence than we are.
It's not so much a slippery slope as it is an escalation factor though. Remember that all facists believe they're doing the right thing. They do what they set out to do, then they see something else that they think is wrong and want to 'correct' that. Rinse and repeat.
 

Divine Retribution

He is that guy.
It's not so much a slippery slope as it is an escalation factor though. Remember that all facists believe they're doing the right thing. They do what they set out to do, then they see something else that they think is wrong and want to 'correct' that. Rinse and repeat.
I must be horribly misunderstanding you, but it seems to me the logical extrapolation of this argument is that we should never try to do the right thing and fix problems because that's what fascists do and we'll become fascists if we do it.

Maybe the facts that fascists are apparently trying to do what they think is the right thing and fix things that they think are wrong aren't the problem, maybe it's, like, the fact they dehumanize, oppress, and kill innocent people. Maybe that's the real problem.
 

RileyXY1

Young Battle Trainer
Biden's been as much of a failure for his party as Trump. Trump saw Arizona and Georgia slip away, and the same goes for Biden with Virginia.
 

SBaby

Dungeon Master
I must be horribly misunderstanding you, but it seems to me the logical extrapolation of this argument is that we should never try to do the right thing and fix problems because that's what fascists do and we'll become fascists if we do it.

Maybe the facts that fascists are apparently trying to do what they think is the right thing and fix things that they think are wrong aren't the problem, maybe it's, like, the fact they dehumanize, oppress, and kill innocent people. Maybe that's the real problem.
I guess the best way to sum up what I'm saying is it's perfectly fine to not tolerate facism. I always say that if you see something, say something. Just don't get so involved in it that you become the very thing you're fighting against.

Biden's been as much of a failure for his party as Trump. Trump saw Arizona and Georgia slip away, and the same goes for Biden with Virginia.
I don't know if I'd say that he's been a failure as much as that culture itself has changed since he took office. That coupled with the fact that people are becoming 'war weary' because of that virus which must not be named.
 

Trainer Yusuf

VolcaniNO
This went under the radar, but Republican Party may boycott Commission on Presidential Debates. CoPD is a famously anti-democratic institution that was invented by both parties to stop third parties from entering the discussion (billmoyers.com has a good series of old articles about this), so this is actually a good thing. What this will mean IRL is probably both parties just rallying for their respective bases instead of discussing with each other, but that's standard procedure for non-Anglophone countries (and historically the case in Anglophone countries).

Primary debates are not conducted by the CoPD, so this will have no impact on them.

(And yes, this essentially a repeat of E3's increasing irrelevance, but for US presidential politics. Bernie already did the livestream thing twice, so that might just become standard for post-Biden Dem candidates.)
 

AZ-the-I-don't-even-know

Where the hell did all of my intelligence go?
The grass is always greener on the other side.

Anyways, now that I live outside of the US, it is nice to laugh at their political problems.
 

lemoncatpower

Cynical optimist
The grass is always greener on the other side.

Anyways, now that I live outside of the US, it is nice to laugh at their political problems.
Laughing outside the US is okay if your country isn't neighbours with them and all their big **** show politics send ripples through your own country. I personally don't like Biden (seen some creepy videos of him with children lol) but if I was from the US, I would vote for Biden any day over Trump. I am hoping Trump dies before the next election and that Biden gets too old to run and you get some youngians in politics.

I feel like the better countries have younger people in power and the countries with old people in power just go downhill, but I don't know stats. All I know is Russia, China, and the US need to get better people in politics who aren't older than 65 and ready to go to the grave. I was going to include England, but Boris is surprisingly under 60, just looks horrible for his age.
 
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