• Hi all. We have had reports of member's signatures being edited to include malicious content. You can rest assured this wasn't done by staff and we can find no indication that the forums themselves have been compromised.

    However, remember to keep your passwords secure. If you use similar logins on multiple sites, people and even bots may be able to access your account.

    We always recommend using unique passwords and enable two-factor authentication if possible. Make sure you are secure.
  • Be sure to join the discussion on our discord at: Discord.gg/serebii
  • If you're still waiting for the e-mail, be sure to check your junk/spam e-mail folders

U.S. Politics: The Biggest Trade in WNBA History

Yknot

Дми́трий Дми́триевич
Because of mail-in ballots. Make sure you fact-check and snope check every "rumor" of these articles.



Did you actually read those e-mails and what they said? Because they do not contain rigging; only shitposting.


A youtube video? a news video?

like i said, narratives. no direct proof. wouldn't be surprised if you got your opinion from facebook memes.

It wasn't just mail ins. It was provisional ballots which should not have been handed out in the first place. It looks like they were eventually counted, however the race was a lot closer after those ballots were included though it looks like Hillary still won.

Doesn't matter if it was not rigging or just shitposting. A person of her position is supposed to be a neutral party to the primaries and she clearly was not based on the e mails. Then Hillary offers her a top position in her campaign? Sorry but that has been her biggest mistake this election season so far. A lot of moderates are upset by this (not just Bernie supporters) and are voting 3rd party because of it. Doesn't matter if what happened in the DNC chairwoman emails were legal or illegal. They show clear bias towards hillary and she was not impartial like she should have been. She should not have been offered a top stop in Hillary's campaign, political mistake and just on principle.

It was a cell phone video the one I saw. The vote was called in 20 minutes early while delegates were still arriving, most of them Bernie supporters.

And there is more to the story, I believe this is the correct one.

http://heavy.com/news/2016/05/nevad...legates-election-fraud-videos-recount-denied/

Don't get me wrong I will be voting for Hillary most likely this election despite the fact that I supported Bernie in the Primaries. I think she has made some mistakes and I don't like her platform as much as Bernies. Does she have a better chance at beating Trump than Bernie? Possibly, even likely, which is why I think it is good that Bernie endorsed her and is trying to get his followers to rally behind her.
 
Last edited:

GhostAnime

Searching for her...
Do you know what the word rigged means? Tell me what it means. So far you're just complaining about stuff that isn't even in the realm of Hillary. You're just complaining to complain at this point.

I asked for evidence of rigging and when you say "doesn't matter" then I'm wasting my time. It does matter. You made an objective statement and you need to prove it.
 

John Madden

resident policy guy
It is very much on topic. The main defence of Hillary not being right-wing is that there are many American politicians so far to the right (e.g. most Republicans). But they are so far to the right that they are almost unmatched in the western world. Almost anyone would look centrist or center-left compared to them.

So why not use a broader context? An American left-wing person (not necessarily a communist) could reasonably say, "Yes, I call Hillary right-wing because in the US almost all politicians are right-wing." It's a legit argument because by changing the definitions it demonstrates that you can go way to the left of Hillary and it seems to work pretty well for society. I have seen some Americans use this argument, and in any case it's possible.

first of all, seeing someone (or even a group of someones) use an argument does not grant said argument legitimacy.

second of all, calling her right-wing even in an international context fundamentally misrepresents what constitutes the "right wing", because it almost always fixates on ignoring the fact that our social services being less robust right now is not exactly germane to what each party's end goals are

on immigration? the Dems are arguably further left than any major party in the EU. only Germany even comes close to our Overton window, and that's arguably because a grand coalition is currently in government.
on infrastructure and general spending? consistent with most center-left parties, with the caveat that many in the EU are constitutionally constrained by Union-wide treaties
on LGBT issues? far and away to the left of practically every country in Europe, with the sole exception of marriage equality
on environmental policy? consistent with most center-left parties, with the caveat that the center-right parties aren't as terminally insane on this front
on health care policy? consistent with most center-left parties as far as end goals, we're just not physically there yet

on banking policy? on gun policy? on family-related policies, from abortion to family leave? the Dems are there, broadly, with the EU's center-left. like, i've served as an assistant to left-wing officeholders in multiple countries at this point, and with regards to their respective domestic policies, we're not particularly far off from any of them anymore. might've been 20 years ago, but that was another age.

third of all, about half of the US's politicians are right-wing. this does not automatically confer right-wing status upon the other half, it just means we're polarized as hell.

It wasn't just mail ins. It was provisional ballots which should not have been handed out in the first place. It looks like they were eventually counted, however the race was a lot closer after those ballots were included though it looks like Hillary still won.

FWIW:

1) by raw vote the California margin was actually nearly identical to where it was before the provisionals were even counted - it just looked closer because that margin's less percentage-wise with more total votes, and
2) the provisionals took absolutely forever to count - they always do in California, as it turns out - because there were literally a couple million of them.

Doesn't matter if it was not rigging or just shitposting. A person of her position is supposed to be a neutral party to the primaries and she clearly was not based on the e mails. Then Hillary offers her a top position in her campaign? Sorry but that has been her biggest mistake this election season so far. A lot of moderates are upset by this (not just Bernie supporters) and are voting 3rd party because of it. Doesn't matter if what happened in the DNC chairwoman emails were legal or illegal. They show clear bias towards hillary and she was not impartial like she should have been. She should not have been offered a top stop in Hillary's campaign, political mistake and just on principle.

Also FWIW:

The "top position" that DWS was given is completely meaningless in terms of importance in the campaign - what was it, an "honorary chair"? Those are basically the "you tried" star of campaign positions (much as "honorary degrees" do not actually confer that you completed a degree), and it was probably handed to her so she'd actually quit the DNC instead of continuing to fight absolutely everyone to cling to the position for the last 6 months of her term.
 
Last edited:

Yknot

Дми́трий Дми́триевич
Do you know what the word rigged means? Tell me what it means. So far you're just complaining about stuff that isn't even in the realm of Hillary. You're just complaining to complain at this point.

I asked for evidence of rigging and when you say "doesn't matter" then I'm wasting my time. It does matter. You made an objective statement and you need to prove it.

No need to be such a bad attitude, I'm just relaying what I've seen in credible news articles.

I posted articles, one with several videos but I didn't see a response from you on any of the articles I've listed.

I'm pointing out mistakes she's made which hurts her campaign against trump. Amazing how rabid Hillary supporters completely back everything she's done instead of seeing objective mistakes she's made. Were the e mails a mistake? Probably, but blown out of proportion.

Making a bad honorary chair appointment? Despite whatever logic you science together to justify what she did it has hurt her campaign and other poly sci analysts believe this as well.

Did she have anything directly to do with Nevada? I don't know but that seemed to be in her favor as well.


@JM

I don't think California was as big an issue as certain media made it out to be but I still don't understand why they are handing out that many provisional ballots at the actual voting booth in the first place. I'm glad they were eventually counted, but why that many provisionals?

It may be honorary chair in title, but on the report I read she will still be having a pretty prominent say in the campaign.

Sorry but whatever reason she had for appointing her it still looks really bad, and many analysts say this has hurt her campaign. Not a good move, despite her 'noble intentions'.
 

GhostAnime

Searching for her...
I posted articles, one with several videos but I didn't see a response from you on any of the articles I've listed.
Because cell phone videos and reciting phrases from articles is not proof of rigging.

Rigging would involve something extraordinary. Proof of planning. Statistical data being widely inconsistent. Maybe even something that shows Hillary benefited from something in a major way. Mere accusations and talks on the Internet is not proof of an entire voting system being rigged.

I'm pointing out mistakes she's made which hurts her campaign against trump.

Even in this sense, you've pointed out zero things that actually had to do with Hillary herself. She didn't orchestrate anything. The DNC is completely outside of her scope. Again, complaining just to complain.

Did she have anything directly to do with Nevada? I don't know but that seemed to be in her favor as well.
As I said in my first reply, I highly suggest to snopes every single "fraud" rumor you brought up thus far to see how much research you actually attempted on these events.
 

John Madden

resident policy guy
@JM

I don't think California was as big an issue as certain media made it out to be but I still don't understand why they are handing out that many provisional ballots at the actual voting booth in the first place. I'm glad they were eventually counted, but why that many provisionals?

Combination of there just being a crapton of (new) primary voters who weren't exactly well versed in everything, & California county election boards being a hodgepodge of different rules and regulations when it comes to the provisionals themselves

(6% and 8% of general-election ballots in California were provisionals in 2008 and 2012, for example - it's not just an issue in the primaries)
 

Yknot

Дми́трий Дми́триевич
Because cell phone videos and reciting phrases from articles is not proof of rigging.

Rigging would involve something extraordinary. Proof of planning. Statistical data being widely inconsistent. Maybe even something that shows Hillary benefited from something in a major way. Mere accusations and talks on the Internet is not proof of an entire voting system being rigged.



Even in this sense, you've pointed out zero things that actually had to do with Hillary herself. She didn't orchestrate anything. The DNC is completely outside of her scope. Again, complaining just to complain.


As I said in my first reply, I highly suggest to snopes every single "fraud" rumor you brought up thus far to see how much research you actually attempted on these events.

I'm not talking about an entire voting system. If you actually read the whole nevada article and watch the videos, I think they show good proof otherwise. Coupled with the fact that she appointed the corrupt DNC chairperson to her campaign, it looks reasonably suspicious to anyone but rabid Hillary fanboys. She's a Clinton, to think it's out of her scope or capabilities is naive at best.

I will probably still vote Hillary because she is the best candidate in line with my views, but you have to be willing to admit, both the DNC and Hillary have made some mistakes recently. I'm merely pointing out that both the DNC and Hillary have both done things that have hurt their cause against Trump which does not make me happy.
 

bobjr

You ask too many questions
Staff member
Moderator
What has Hillary done herself? As in something she's proven to have done, not hearsay, not someone with a vague relation to her, at least during this election cycle. DWS was a terrible chairman and had to blackmail the President to not get kicked off, and she was just hitching herself to the bigger wagon.

Like a lot of Clinton stuff is 30 years of "Oh look at this stuff they might be doing!", and even when it's disproved it's a lot of "Well it still might have happened!", and that's what the GOP is honestly hoping you do. Same reason they don't care if you don't vote as a protest.
 

Yknot

Дми́трий Дми́триевич
Does appointing a corrupt chairperson to your campaign after things like Nevada not look reasonably suspicious to you? Whether she was directly responsible for Nevada or not, the appointment was a mistake, it has hurt her campaign as analysts have pointed out. Whether or not she actually had a hand in Nevada (I don't think California was an issue), it just doesn't look good and will not help her win over the adamant Bernie supporters, even if Bernie tells them to.

Don't get me wrong, I'm voting for Hillary. I just want her to get things in better shape for voters still on the fence.
 

bobjr

You ask too many questions
Staff member
Moderator
She's gotten 80+%, and considering how many of them wouldn't vote if he lost even if his entire platform was accepted that's a good number. Really it's a lot of people mad things didn't go literally perfect for them, and I would say at least 5% of Bernie supporters had no idea what he supported.
 

Yknot

Дми́трий Дми́триевич
She's gotten 80+%, and considering how many of them wouldn't vote if he lost even if his entire platform was accepted that's a good number. Really it's a lot of people mad things didn't go literally perfect for them, and I would say at least 5% of Bernie supporters had no idea what he supported.

I thought it was closer than that, at least in California it was. That seems odd, I thought he was pretty clear on what he wanted, more so than other candidates. But I think that number is possible of any candidate really.

One meme I've seen floating around is "let's just look at the candidates based on the issues"

One glaring thing left off is nuclear warfare. Common sense dictates no one thinks it is an acceptable solution so maybe not a huge issue to highlight, however with Trump in the running who thinks nuclear war is in fact an acceptable solution I think this omission is unacceptable.
 

John Madden

resident policy guy
i'm just gonna point out that this DNCleak stuff doesn't actually seem to have hurt clinton, given that her lead's actually stabilized around 7-9 points (ordinarily it would start going back down right about now) and her favorables are the best they've been since last spring
 

Yknot

Дми́трий Дми́триевич
i'm just gonna point out that this DNCleak stuff doesn't actually seem to have hurt clinton, given that her lead's actually stabilized around 7-9 points (ordinarily it would start going back down right about now) and her favorables are the best they've been since last spring

well I'm happy for her then. I speculate it could be a bit higher without the incident but if her polls are good (which is what I've seen as well) then I'm happy. I know I've seen analysts that say it hurt her campaign but if they are wrong then that's good too.
 

bobjr

You ask too many questions
Staff member
Moderator
It's really hard to get a lead that big in the first place. Obama won by 4 in 2012 and that was considered a blowout. Remember the GOP could nominate reanimated Hitler and still get 40% minimum.
 

Mordent99

Banned
That's a really depressing statement to make, one that isn't particularly true for those of us in the UK where the new leader of the opposition is the most honest and down to Earth person you could ever meet.

I respect that you like Hilary but its wrong in my opinion to just accept politicians lie but want them to become POTUS without ever changing their ways. Where's the trust?

"Politics is the art of lying."

Paul Valery, early 20th Century French poet, essayist, and philosopher
 

U.N. Owen

In Brightest Day, In Blackest Night ...
It's not if you lie in politics. It's if and how you get caught.

And our friend Hillary is a terrible liar. Trump is pretty sincere in his stupidity.
 

Mordent99

Banned
Attention, job opening for campaign spokeswoman, apply to Trump Campaign Headquarters:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yWsDFlcDVjI

Misogyny, complete lack of dignity and self respect, and ability to keep one's temper required.
 

I-am-the-peel

Justice Forever
Are you talking about Brexit? If you are, then I don't believe that one bit. Brexit used severe misinformation, such as anti-immigration, in order to separate from the EU. When the votes came in, UK suffered the severe aftermath, in which Brexit politicians dodged any blame, and said it would get better without mentioning exactly how. I really don't believe they thought past leaving.

No I wasn't talking about Brexit, although that is something I am concerned about. I was talking about Jeremy Corbyn, the leader of the opposition and main opponent to new conservative PM Theresa May. He's the most honest and down to Earth political leader Britain has had in decades. During the EU referendum, although arguing on the side of remain, he carefully articulated and explained the benefits of remaining in the most simplest of manners and acknowledged the EU's problems.

"Politics is the art of lying."

Paul Valery, early 20th Century French poet, essayist, and philosopher

I'm sorry but that's an oversimplistic statement and there is far more to politics than those who succeed through lying. Just look at some of the most successful UK PMs and US Presidents and their progressive acts; we could always have that if truly virtuous men and women who stuck to their word were actually elected

It's not if you lie in politics. It's if and how you get caught.

And our friend Hillary is a terrible liar. Trump is pretty sincere in his stupidity.

With regards to Hilary and Trump, I've come to the conclusion that they just don't believe in what they say. Hilary is one of those politicians who over the years just tells people what they like to hear and expects them to forget it in a few years time. With Trump, not only does he not believe in what he says but he's also incapable of keeping track of what he says.

If they were running for Presidency in a different country or in a different time-era, they would be laughed at and wouldn't stand a chance. What a wonderful world we live in.
 
Top