U.S. Politics: The Biggest Trade in WNBA History

[Excitable Boy]

Clearly, all we need to do is lock the diehard brocialists in a room with the diehard Teabaggers. Let the brocialists convince the conservatives that Hillary is one of them, and let the conservatives convince the brocialists that she's one of them.

Will she then win in a landslide, or a huge landslide?

 

[Remix2]

I think a lot of it comes from her getting deals made with Republicans, where both sides would kinda get something, but that's a thing of the past, and now if you give in to anything on the other side it's a total loss.

Well that and she voting for the Iraq war, the patriots act which volatile the 4 amendment And also try to pass a bill in New York that send people to jail for burning a flag.

 

[bobjr]

Well that and she voting for the Iraq war, the patriots act which volatile the 4 amendment And also try to a bill pass in New York that send people to jail for burning a flag.

You mean a New York politician had that reaction to the 9/11 attacks? Plus a lot of the Iraq war was a lie, but most of that was hindsight where you should blame the Bush presidency and cabinet for pushing it.

 

[Baba Yaga]

Why is it more understandable that a politician would vote to weaken civil liberties in a time of crisis? It's precisely in times of crisis in which we most expect them to protect our civil liberties. Why would you get brownie points for upholding them in times of peace? Do we have substantial reason to believe that her administration will significantly differ from Obama's in terms of going after journalists and whistle blowers? I am willing to give Clinton the benefit of the doubt when it comes to a number of issues when factoring in her overall record. I will chalk up some of her less commendable choices under the banner of simply not being able to predict the unintended consequences, like the 1996 welfare reform law for example. The Iraq war and the patriot act in particular I believe she really just should have known better.

 

[John Madden]

With similar logic every major party in Scandinavia would be communist

"with similar logic" you could make all kinds of bizarre statements out of touch with reality if you're ignoring context (in this case, explicitly for the US), so maybe focus on the one i actually made:

the only kind of person in america with the ideological room to legitimately call hillary clinton "conservative" on economic issues is so far left that history has already rendered them irrelevant

like, i have a BA in poli sci, you don't need to condescend about different countries having different overton windows, so maybe stay on the topic of the thread for five seconds

 

[Mordent99]

Well that and she voting for the Iraq war, the patriots act which volatile the 4 amendment And also try to pass a bill in New York that send people to jail for burning a flag.

So did Pence.

 

[LizardonX]

I'm beginning to believe that Trump is a democrat that's being paid to sabotage the republican party. I can't believe some of the stuff coming out of Trump's mouth.

I doubt it. But even he was a plant it's scary to see how many people truly believe he should be president even after everything he's done already.

 

[Sonic Boom]

GOP officials seem to be concentrating on lower-ticket elections now, which basically means that they've considered the Oval Office this cycle a fool's errand.


Between this, and the Brownback cabinet in Kansas suffering a humiliating curbstomp in the primaries Tuesday in retaliation for the Reaganomics initiated in the state sending the state's economy down the gutter, desperation seems at a premium this year.

 

[Yknot]

GOP officials seem to be concentrating on lower-ticket elections now, which basically means that they've considered the Oval Office this cycle a fool's errand.


Between this, and the Brownback cabinet in Kansas suffering a humiliating curbstomp in the primaries Tuesday in retaliation for the Reaganomics initiated in the state sending the state's economy down the gutter, desperation seems at a premium this year.

Was so happy to see this in Kansas. I live close to the border but it still affects me even though I'm Missouri as a future educator. Proud of Kansas in the primaries.

In local coverage he's been getting the most attention for almost getting the schools shut down. Teachers were issued letters that the schools would not open unless the congress solves the budget issues ASAP.


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Okay so this is a huge thread and I think honest republican voters need to see this. My parents are baby boomers and my dad is afraid of Bernie because he's too socialist (red scare generation etc.) but I feel bad this is what honest moderate republicans are stuck with this election. I think with the Baby boomers, Hillary has a better chance of winning over trump.

I see more Republicans voting libertarian this election that Democrats voting green. Finally starting to feel like Hillary has got this by a comfortable margin according to recent polls. I would prefer to vote green but I'm in a swing state and I think I will be voting Democrat this election just in case. Could not live with myself if Missouri voted Trump by one vote.


Here's the article summary. Lots of credible links and things Trump has actually said. Sorry if this has been posted. this thread is huge but people need to see it.

https://www.reddit.com/r/EnoughTrum...final_response_to_the_tell_me_why_trump_is_a/



Like I said, I feel bad for moderate republicans this year.

The most concerning thing I've seen with Hillary is election fraud against Bernie. Very concerning, but Trump makes her look like a saint in comparison concerning policy and every day repeated remarks.

The email scandal was blown out of proportion. Bush had a very similar incident on a larger scale, but he was already president and not running so it just wasn't considered nearly as big a deal back then.

 

[GhostAnime]

The most concerning thing I've seen with Hillary is election fraud against Bernie.

... Okay, do you have proof to present of such a case where she is heavily favored over Bernie in a state because of fraud? Like, direct proof? Not merely a narrative mentioned?

 

[Mordent99]

... Okay, do you have proof to present of such a case where she is heavily favored over Bernie in a state because of fraud? Like, direct proof? Not merely a narrative mentioned?

It's all they've got. They refuse to apologize, or accept fault, or admit they're wrong, so they snowball it with more and more absurd lies about fraud. Claiming Hillary is a criminal for every little rumor, trying to make voters think she personally murdered those four Americans in Benghazi. I saw the same thing in 2012. IMOHO, Hillary's refusal to sink to their level by not acknowledging such accusations is further proof she is more qualified.

And wouldn't you know it, reactions to recent polls are bringing cries of "Fraud!" "Lies!" and other conspiracy theorist bibble-babble, just like last time. (Kinda makes me wonder what Trump plans to say in his concession speech, if he even makes one.)

The modern GOP just won't accept reality. Often, I wonder if they can tell fiction from reality.

 

[Yknot]

... Okay, do you have proof to present of such a case where she is heavily favored over Bernie in a state because of fraud? Like, direct proof? Not merely a narrative mentioned?

There have been several articles where projected reports in certain states (california) versus actual outcomes at the polls show a discrepancy usually only present in third world countries of high voting fraud and corruption.

The article I saw showed that in California several thousand uncounted ballots that should have been counted.

*edit*

this may have been a viral face book article with low credibility.

however:



Saw a video of a Primary Democratic vote where several Bernie delegates were blocked from voting.

There have been leaked e mails I think it was the leader of the national democratic committee, several e mails referring to ways in which they could undermine Bernie in favor of Hilary. She then steps down and Hilary offers her a top position in the campaign after the controversy.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...46c260-51a9-11e6-b7de-dfe509430c39_story.html

http://fortune.com/2016/07/24/wasserman-schultz-clinton-campaign/

 

[Mordent99]

You know, Yknot, Bernie himself does not believe those claims. (Yeah, he claimed there was some bias, some railroading, but he stopped short of actual accusations of fraud, which is a crime. Certainly not to the extent Republicans have in their rather hopeless crusade to paint Hillary as a liar while their candidate tells obvious and absurd untruths.)

Like I said, they have trouble seeing reality. The "scandal" around Vince Foster (I use the term loosely) makes little sense, seeing as the police, coroner, FBI, Ken Starr himself, and even Vince's family all insist he shot himself with the gun that was in his hand and recently fired when his body was found. Nonetheless, the Trump supporters insist again and again he was murdered, ignoring every expert and ignoring reality.

Occum's Razor, Yknot.

 

[GhostAnime]

The article I saw showed that in California several thousand uncounted ballots that should have been counted.

Because of mail-in ballots. Make sure you fact-check and snope check every "rumor" of these articles.

There have been leaked e mails I think it was the leader of the national democratic committee, several e mails referring to ways in which they could undermine Bernie in favor of Hilary. She then steps down and Hilary offers her a top position in the campaign after the controversy.

Did you actually read those e-mails and what they said? Because they do not contain rigging; only shitposting.

Saw a video of a Primary Democratic vote where several Bernie delegates were blocked from voting.

A youtube video? a news video?

like i said, narratives. no direct proof. wouldn't be surprised if you got your opinion from facebook memes.

 

[bobjr]

Plus many of the DNC people involved in those emails were let go. Hillary herself had no involvement, most likely because after all the fake scandals about her she probably doesn't want them to get hint of an actual one.

 

[Aegiscalibur]

"with similar logic" you could make all kinds of bizarre statements out of touch with reality if you're ignoring context (in this case, explicitly for the US), so maybe focus on the one i actually made:

the only kind of person in america with the ideological room to legitimately call hillary clinton "conservative" on economic issues is so far left that history has already rendered them irrelevant

like, i have a BA in poli sci, you don't need to condescend about different countries having different overton windows, so maybe stay on the topic of the thread for five seconds

It is very much on topic. The main defence of Hillary not being right-wing is that there are many American politicians so far to the right (e.g. most Republicans). But they are so far to the right that they are almost unmatched in the western world. Almost anyone would look centrist or center-left compared to them.

So why not use a broader context? An American left-wing person (not necessarily a communist) could reasonably say, "Yes, I call Hillary right-wing because in the US almost all politicians are right-wing." It's a legit argument because by changing the definitions it demonstrates that you can go way to the left of Hillary and it seems to work pretty well for society. I have seen some Americans use this argument, and in any case it's possible.

 

[Mordent99]

Know why I support Hillary?

She sometimes tells the truth, she sometimes bends the truth, and, as all politicians, she sometimes lies.

But there's one thing that she does very well, which Trump cannot do to save his life, and that's to keep her mouth shut when the occasion warrants it.

 

[I-am-the-peel]

as all politicians, she sometimes lies.

That's a really depressing statement to make, one that isn't particularly true for those of us in the UK where the new leader of the opposition is the most honest and down to Earth person you could ever meet.

I respect that you like Hilary but its wrong in my opinion to just accept politicians lie but want them to become POTUS without ever changing their ways. Where's the trust?

 

[U.N. Owen]

Know why I support Hillary?

She sometimes tells the truth, she sometimes bends the truth, and, as all politicians, she sometimes lies.

But there's one thing that she does very well, which Trump cannot do to save his life, and that's to keep her mouth shut when the occasion warrants it.

I agree on the Trump portion, but I trust Hillary as much as Trump. Hillary has been near too many scandals. She lies and she's a terrible liar. At least other politicians can cover up their scandals for a few months or years. Her scandals drop like a rock.

 

[Auraninja]

That's a really depressing statement to make, one that isn't particularly true for those of us in the UK where the new leader of the opposition is the most honest and down to Earth person you could ever meet.

Are you talking about Brexit? If you are, then I don't believe that one bit. Brexit used severe misinformation, such as anti-immigration, in order to separate from the EU. When the votes came in, UK suffered the severe aftermath, in which Brexit politicians dodged any blame, and said it would get better without mentioning exactly how. I really don't believe they thought past leaving.

I agree on the Trump portion, but I trust Hillary as much as Trump. Hillary has been near too many scandals. She lies and she's a terrible liar. At least other politicians can cover up their scandals for a few months or years. Her scandals drop like a rock.

This is how I feel about the whole "crooked Hillary" idea.

This phenomenon itself has never been tested with the burden of proof, yet Hillary is talked about like a criminal while other politicians have done much worse. It's also very telling, and somewhat frightening, that a hacking organization is not being brought to justice, and even more so, is being treated as a trustworthy group that brings Hillary to justice. It doesn't help that the very head of Wikileaks has evaded sexual allegations.