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Ubers Metagame Discussion Thread

Discussion in '6th Gen' started by Ragnarok, Jan 8, 2015.

  1. Ragnarok

    Ragnarok #BeastMode Staff Member Super Mod

    Last edited: Jan 9, 2015
  2. Aeon™

    Aeon™ Rock Ultimate

    So I'm trying to break into the Ubers metagame, and was thinking about building a Mega Mewtwo X team. I don't really have any idea what pokemon would be good partners for it and what pokemon I'd need to watch out for, though.
     
  3. Divine Retribution

    Divine Retribution Master of the freak show

    Xerneas, Arceus-Fairy, Arceus-Ghost, and Giratina are obviously problems, fearing basically nothing from Mewtwo X and cripping or flat out killing him. Genesect deters Xerneas and Arceus-Fairy, while Darkrai can put a hurt on Giratina and Arceus-Ghost. Mega Gengar can trap and kill any of those threats.
     
  4. Psynergy

    Psynergy Strong Winds Staff Member Super Mod

    Mega Mewtwo X is kind of weird and he's kind of fallen in use since ORAS added more Megas for it to compete with, especially Salamence. There's also more things that have become popular and can beat it now, but it's still pretty solid on its own. CM Primal Kyogre actually makes a solid offensive partner for it, and the combination of the two can also put some pressure on offensive Primal Groudon. Mewtwo can also threaten Latios and Latias with Ice Punch, which otherwise serve as strong checks to Primal Kyogre. The two together don't do a whole lot to stop the threats previously mentioned though.
     
  5. Mye

    Mye Someone has to win..

    Yeah, Aegislash also makes for both a weird partner and a weird check to it. While it doesn't bring anything noteworthy to help mx-mewtwo, king's shield combined with access to shadow sneak allow it to either help mewtwo switch in safely on certain things (like rayquaza and ho-oh) or pick off things it's weakened (like giratina and some of the other psychic types). As a check, it puts mx-mewtwo in a weird spot as unless it's running special attacks it horribly fears king's shield and also runs the risk of being OHKO'd by shadow claw/ball.
     
  6. justinjiaxinghu

    justinjiaxinghu class on my back

    MMX definitely has some usage, but it's fallen out of grace since OR/AS release, since it's facing competition from superior megas like M-Diancie and M-Mence.
     
  7. Eaglehawk

    Eaglehawk Banned

    With the release of Soul Dew and PDon, I've found quite a bit of success using stall in Ubers. Latias functions as one of the best Defoggers and Special walls (if invested correctly). I've been using a set of Defog/Roost/Dragon Pulse/Calm Mind to fulfill many roles on one stall team: hazard removal, wincon, Special Wall. PDon is just too good in this meta to ignore since it soft-checks and counters so many things in UU and can still dish a crapton of damage out.

    I don't know how crucial Mega-Sableye is to stall tbh. It's a very good spinblocker that beats on early game leads such as Darkrai and all of the Deoxys formes.
     
  8. Lord Fighting

    Lord Fighting Bank Ball Collector

    Is Mega Rayquaza banned from ubers? It's classified as 'AG', Anything Goes by smogon so is that a tier above ubers because Mega RayRay is too powerful for the tier?
     
  9. Divine Retribution

    Divine Retribution Master of the freak show

    Yes. Mega Ray forced Smogon to redefine Ubers as an official tier, and was banned to Anything Goes along with things like Moody.
     
  10. Lord Fighting

    Lord Fighting Bank Ball Collector

    Will Primal groudon get banned? Or suspected?
     
  11. Mr. Reloaded

    Mr. Reloaded An enigma

    It's nowhere near as bad as Mega Ray was so no.

    Primal Groudon doesn't restrict team building.
     
  12. Divine Retribution

    Divine Retribution Master of the freak show

    Don't know. It is rather centralizing but not on the same level as Mega Ray. Mega Ray was banned because it literally has zero counters, or even any solid checks. It can run a move to obliterate anything that otherwise counter it, I.E. Skarmory and Ferrothorn die to V-Create and Fire Blast, Arceus-Steel is 2HKO'd by Fire Blast or flat out OHKO'd by V-Create after Sword's Dance, etc. And with access to a 120 base power Flying STAB as well as ExtremeSpeed it's no wonder it was banned.

    On the other hand, PrimDon at least can be stopped. Primal Kyogre's sole niche over standard Kyogre is that it can dispel Desolate Land and check PrimDon, as well as a few other things like physically defensive Arceus-Ground and Lugia. It is extremely centralizing, requiring one of a few dedicated checks to handle, so it may be suspected eventually. I think Mega Gengar will end up back on the chopping board as well now that AG is a tier.
     
  13. Ace Trainer Riana

    Ace Trainer Riana Well-Known Member

    So I haven't played with Rayquaza on Showdown. Did they remove its ability to Mega Evolve if it knows Dragon Ascent?
     
  14. Mr. Reloaded

    Mr. Reloaded An enigma

    Yeah, you can still run Dragon Ascent, but the option to mega evolve is gone.
     
  15. Mye

    Mye Someone has to win..

    See, for me I can't see m-gengar getting banned from ubers but I could see them preventing it from using perish song on any of its sets. While 170SpAtk/130 speed and shadow tag may be powerful, those weaknesses to ground/psychic/ghost combined with its middling defenses and lack of boosting moves prevent it from being anything more than a "come in and do stuff until it dies" as opposed to a "multi-use switch in/out without worry" sweeper. Banning perish song from its movesets would essentially destroy all of its "cheap" movesets and would force it out of defensive sets due to arceus-ghost/aegis having way more useful movepools and about twice as much bulk.
     
  16. NotABeginningTrainer

    NotABeginningTrainer Well-Known Member

    The problem with that is smogon doesn't like specific bans like that. Are you saying just to ban perish song from gengar or to ban the move entirely? They are very different in premise. There's a reason they banned Blaziken and not just speed boost.
     
  17. Ace Trainer Riana

    Ace Trainer Riana Well-Known Member

    I've found that Rain can be successful in Ubers. Kyogre is a million times better than Politoed and Mega Swampert just laughs in Primal Groudon's face.
     
  18. Mye

    Mye Someone has to win..

    Just perish song from gengar. Without it, it's way more managable.

    And I agree, rain is pretty fun to use. For me, defensive ludicolo and lanturn are fun options as the former can kill off opposing kyogre wheras Lanturn's access to stab thunder and hydro pump make it pretty scary despite packing breloom-ish BST. Electric arceus is another fun option, as in rain and with a few CM boosts it can pick off pretty much anything not a mega or not named ferrothorn.
     
  19. KillerDraco

    KillerDraco The Enforcer Staff Member Super Mod

    ...Rain only works as long as Primal Groudon is already gone. The fact that Primal Groudon is on about 80% of teams cripples rain outright. Standard Kyogre's viability absolutely plummeted when Primal Groudon was introduced; it went from S-rank in viability to B-rank. Rain can be successful, sure, but the fact that you have to take out Primal Groudon before it can even be considered hurts its viability a lot, since Desolate Land prevents Rain from ever activating (barring Primal Kyogre's Primordial Sea, but that ends when it switches out).

    Also Mega Swampert and Primal Groudon both 2HKO each other, and Primal Groudon outspeeds it so it's hardly laughing at Primal Groudon.

    252+ Atk Primal Groudon Earthquake vs. 100 HP / 0 Def Mega Swampert: 211-250 (57.6 - 68.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    252+ Atk Primal Groudon Precipice Blades vs. 100 HP / 0 Def Mega Swampert: 255-300 (69.6 - 81.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

    252+ Atk Mega Swampert Earthquake vs. 128 HP / 0 Def Primal Groudon: 266-314 (71.3 - 84.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

    Also, with regards to Perish Song... it's only on 10% of Gengar in Ubers. There's far more to Mega Gengar being so dangerous than just Perish Song.
     
  20. Ace Trainer Riana

    Ace Trainer Riana Well-Known Member

    So does Cloud Nine negate the new weather? If it makes Golduck an extremely niche Primal Groudon counter. It's not really good for anything else though
     

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