Ultra Beasts Discussion Thread

[PrinceOfFacade]

Mystery Gifts, imho, don't give you the same satisfaction as catching a Pokemon for yourself.

But that's my point. Legendaries shouldn't be catchable.

Thus, whatever these Ultra Beasts are, I pray they're not catchable. I just wanna battle them and lose a bunch of times until I get pissed off and shut off my 3DS. Like the good ol' days.

 

[Orphalesion]

But that's my point. Legendaries shouldn't be catchable.

Thus, whatever these Ultra Beasts are, I pray they're not catchable. I just wanna battle them and lose a bunch of times until I get pissed off and shut off my 3DS. Like the good ol' days.

That's what I want too, that's why I hope UBs aren't catchable, but I also don't just wanna be handed a pokemon by nintendo. I'm not a fan of legendaries, and usually play without them (Yvetal got wondertraded as soon as I caught him) but if I wanted one I would want to get it for myself, after drudging through some extra dungeon that's completely optional and outside the storyline. The storyline shouldn't force me (or even make it possible) to catch any legendary, because I agree that it makes little sense story-wise that our character just happens to be the one who encounters and catches all those extremely powerful, one-of-a-kind pokemon. I personally would vastly prefer it if they'd all be optional and only catchable in post game.

Let me give you an example if X and Y had worked after this principle you would have had a proper boss fight against a crazed Xernead/Yvetal in which you have to defeat them and can't catch them. But after the story you would hear rumors about them having withdrawn to a remote place. Then, if you want, you can fight through a bonus dungeon with them at the end and there you can, if you wish so, catch them.
Making the player work for those pokemon would be imho much more rewarding and logical (and best of all optional)

 

[R_N]

Honestly defeating a legendary is significantly easier than catching one.
I still remember the big climax of BW2 kind of falling flat because while Black & White Kyurem are complete monsters in terms of power they're also trivial to take down in a few turns. The difficulty in in-game legendary battles comes from making sure you don't kill them on accident, then keeping afloat of their attacks for another 40 turns while you chuck balls at it

If we fight the UBs at all as if they were Pokemon (it could also be some weird thing of them acting as trainers if they're willing to transform into humanoids) I think they would need some significant gimmicks in place to be even remotely challenging and not something you blast through in 1-3 turns

 

[PrinceOfFacade]

Let me give you an example if X and Y had worked after this principle you would have had a proper boss fight against a crazed Xernead/Yvetal in which you have to defeat them and can't catch them. But after the story you would hear rumors about them having withdrawn to a remote place. Then, if you want, you can fight through a bonus dungeon with them at the end and there you can, if you wish so, catch them.
Making the player work for those pokemon would be imho much more rewarding and logical (and best of all optional)

This whole scenario still irks me because the sheer fact that you are still able to catch Yveltal.

The thing is known for effortlessly draining life forces. We shouldn't be able to catch it! That it my whole point. The only way I would be okay with catching a legendary is if the story legitimately requires it to happen as an effective plot device, such as in Black & White. Other than that, it should never happen.

Honestly defeating a legendary is significantly easier than catching one.

Indeed, which is why it needs to be hella harder to take one down. Thus, I'm hoping these Ultra Beasts live up to their name, and slaughter my team.

 

[clbgolden12]

Indeed, which is why it needs to be hella harder to take one down. Thus, I'm hoping these Ultra Beasts live up to their name, and slaughter my team.

Unless it would just be a temporary boost, it honestly shouldn't be TOO strong, otherwise if you're facing someone else with a whole team of them it'd be terrible.

 

[R_N]

Unless it would just be a temporary boost, it honestly shouldn't be TOO strong, otherwise if you're facing someone else with a whole team of them it'd be terrible.

Yeah, you'd need some absurd speed & power in order to reliably slaughter someone and at that point it's just out of too many team's leagues.

And by absurd I mean more than some legendaries. I mean, again, White/Black Kyurem had 700 BST with absolutely monstrous attacking stats & well-rounded everything else but it still went down pretty easily. Primal Kyogre & Groudon are also very strong, especially with their super weather, but I also had to retry Kyogre twice because I accidentally killed it by i think energy ball getting a high roll.

The most to hope for is an overall very strong not-Pokemon and possibly have the SOS gimmick that Totems have. And even then that will still probably not be a slaughter as it is "it got like 2 of my 6 man team b/c i was unprepared". The way the game system is set up just doesn't favor full team vs 1 strong dude very well

 

[Orphalesion]

This whole scenario still irks me because the sheer fact that you are still able to catch Yveltal.

The thing is known for effortlessly draining life forces. We shouldn't be able to catch it! That it my whole point. The only way I would be okay with catching a legendary is if the story legitimately requires it to happen as an effective plot device, such as in Black & White. Other than that, it should never happen.

But we should get it as a present? Yes a 10 year old owning a legendary doesn't make sense, which is why I would put it into an optional bonus dungeon, that's where JRPGs traditionally put all the things that don't make sense in-story.

 

[Wryteous]

Yeah, you'd need some absurd speed & power in order to reliably slaughter someone and at that point it's just out of too many team's leagues.

And by absurd I mean more than some legendaries. I mean, again, White/Black Kyurem had 700 BST with absolutely monstrous attacking stats & well-rounded everything else but it still went down pretty easily. Primal Kyogre & Groudon are also very strong, especially with their super weather, but I also had to retry Kyogre twice because I accidentally killed it by i think energy ball getting a high roll.

The most to hope for is an overall very strong not-Pokemon and possibly have the SOS gimmick that Totems have. And even then that will still probably not be a slaughter as it is "it got like 2 of my 6 man team b/c i was unprepared". The way the game system is set up just doesn't favor full team vs 1 strong dude very well

That's why I think enhancements like the Totem pokemon calling others to fight is a great idea for helping to create true boss fights. The boss doesn't necessarily need to be overpowered. The fight just needs more strategy and targets to make it more even-sided. If Ultra Beast are fought this could be rectified with it splitting and making copies of itself- or having an 'ability' which gives it multiple stages and HP bars.

 

[RedJirachi]

Personally, I feel no legendary should be catchable in-game unless the story dictates it, and should instead be offered via Mystery Gift.

Besides, I'm ready for some massive good ol' RPG boss battle throw down, and I'm hoping the Totem Pokémon grant this.

Depends on the legendary really. Lugia may be super-powerful, but it's still in the tier of being "just" an incredibly powerful creature rather than a god

 

[SlowPokeBroKing]

Depends on the legendary really. Lugia may be super-powerful, but it's still in the tier of being "just" an incredibly powerful creature rather than a god

None of the legendary Pokémon are gods. They are all just powerful creatures.

 

[R_N]

None of the legendary Pokémon are gods. They are all just powerful creatures.

Arceus can create life which, in fairness, is pretty godly.

Still, one of my favorite pieces of flavor text is in Platinum. If you go inspect the mural in the postgame (I believe), Cynthia will come along and give a spiel about how its possible that the ancient Sinnohians saw Dialga & Palkia wielding such powerful time/space attacks that they revered them as actual deities of time/space.
You can see the same thing with Ho-Oh & Lugia: Very powerful pokemon revered & worshipped (for a time, it seems out of favor outside of select people by the time of HGSS) due to their perceived power. But still, at the end of the day, just pokemon.
I wonder if something similar will be here for our island guardians. They're pretty revered, probably have strong powers (electric terrain not withstanding), etc.

 

[SlowPokeBroKing]

Arceus can create life which, in fairness, is pretty godly.

Most Pokémon can create life through breeding. It's all about perspective. If a Pokémon can be defeated in general by any other existing Pokémon and be captured by human technology to bend to the will of a pre-teen, it is no more godly than Caterpie.

 

[R_N]

Most Pokémon can create life through breeding. It's all about perspective. If a Pokémon can be defeated in general by any other existing Pokémon and be captured by human technology to bend to the will of a pre-teen, it is no more godly than Caterpie.

I think 2 pokemon breeding through presumably normal breeding habits & organs is a smidge different than whatever reality bending went on here to make dialga, palkia or giratina
https://youtu.be/eGs-ZSyBykQ

also some vague implications that it might have made Cresselia? Or placed it there? The Darkrai event was kind of weird

 

[Sulfurian]

I do think Ultra Beasts should be catchable, especially if there's more than just one. If the box art legendaries do in fact come from the same dimension as these Ultra beasts (When the box legends entered the portal at the end of the latest trailer) they should be catchable as well.

To me, if they had time to design non-catchable creatures for a boss fight that is totally outclassed by any good RPG out there, they would have time to design something like say Mega Flygon.

 

[Seven of Arcanine]

I've always been in the camp that all Pokemon should be catchable, that they are all just creatures of varying sentience and capability.

Flavor text like with the DPPt box-art legendaries are myths believed by people who witnessed particularly powerful Pokemon in ages past, before technology/trainer culture developed to a point where such creatures could be, or would be, caught.

And by the time human civilization does advance enough, it's so ingrained into the local culture that few, if any, would dare try outside of the exceptionally skilled (you) or particularly diabolical (the Teams). And at first, the Pokedex would record the creature in its mythological context, because not enough scientific data would be yet known.

To put it more simply, there is a difference between godly Pokemon and Pokemon gods, and we have only encountered the former.

And to bring it back on topic, I think it's the same for the Ultra Beasts. Being seen as removed is not necessarily the same as actually being removed. There's every chance that the Ultra Beasts are catchable.

 

[R_N]

I do think Ultra Beasts should be catchable, especially if there's more than just one. If the box art legendaries do in fact come from the same dimension as these Ultra beasts (When the box legends entered the portal at the end of the latest trailer) they should be catchable as well.

To me, if they had time to design non-catchable creatures for a boss fight that is totally outclassed by any good RPG out there, they would have time to design something like say Mega Flygon.

the issue with mega flygon wasn't there wasn't time, a design just didn't come together that they were happy with

i'm guessing whatever development resources spent on ultra beasts would be equivalent to the crazy stuff they came up with for pokestar studios

 

[Aromatic Mist]

Most Pokémon can create life through breeding. It's all about perspective. If a Pokémon can be defeated in general by any other existing Pokémon and be captured by human technology to bend to the will of a pre-teen, it is no more godly than Caterpie.

Creating life from gamete production and creating something from nothing are two different things.

Also, Arceus can faint like any other Pokémon because gameplay mechanics. We don't know whether it is actually intended as a God or not.

Also, gods =/= unkillable. There's plenty of mythological sources with gods dying. So fainting isn't really 'Haha! Proof there is no PokéGod! And as for getting captured, it could easily be a respect thing.

 

[goodpeople25]

On catching legendaries, yeah legendaries can be caught but I can be caught in a blanket and play around with my little sister for a bit if I wanted to, dosen't mean I had to listen to her or couldn't get out in a second. (And they've been making an effort to imply the legendaries want to be caught) If anything being able to be caught implies control of their power not lack of power. If you have an issue with legendaries being written as wanting to be caught sure. But I don't see why they would be unable to be caught or allow themselves to listen to orders.

 

[Nodame]

It seems that Ultra Beasts are not Pokémon.

"In the Alola region, rumors are flying about mysterious creatures known as Ultra Beasts. Ultra Beasts possess mighty powers and could pose a threat to humans and Pokémon, so they are feared."

Now I would argue that other legendaries are also threats to Pokémon as well, but if it were true that UB-01 were a Pokémon then I question why they did not give it a type as they gave one to Type: Null and labeled TL as the synthetic Pokémon. Instead they didn't label UB-01 a Pokemon species at all.

 

[SlowPokeBroKing]

Creating life from gamete production and creating something from nothing are two different things.

Also, Arceus can faint like any other Pokémon because gameplay mechanics. We don't know whether it is actually intended as a God or not.

Also, gods =/= unkillable. There's plenty of mythological sources with gods dying. So fainting isn't really 'Haha! Proof there is no PokéGod! And as for getting captured, it could easily be a respect thing.

Man, you got me there. "Science word, maybe, maybe, maybe, could, possibly, maybe, you never know!"

Look. Arceus is a Pokémon, plain and simple. You can put whatever stupid title on it you want, but it is still just a Pokémon. Giving it a status does not mean anything. Arguing about its status doesn't make it so. The day GameFreak says, "By the way, that Pokémon we created 12 years ago, yeah, it's literally a god. You can quit guessing now." That's the day I'll think twice about it. But other people going around telling people based on Pokédex entries and potential jumps in logic that Arceus is above other Pokémon is just silly.

As of today, Arceus may even have god-like abilities, but we cannot go around saying it's a god.