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Ultra Beasts Discussion Thread

Discussion in 'Pokémon - Generation VII Discussion' started by Endless, Sep 6, 2016.

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  1. clbgolden12

    clbgolden12 Alolan (and soon to be Galarian) trainer

    Well, even if they showed the typings/abilities later, we'd still consider them Pokémon, just later on.
     
  2. TheEliteEmpoleon

    TheEliteEmpoleon Well-Known Member

    That's exactly JV's point. They're saying that GF doesn't want us to know exactly they are at this moment.
     
  3. goodpeople25

    goodpeople25 Well-Known Member

    Wow somebody's a speciest ;) you've likely passed scores (if not hundreds) of different species and at least a dozen NPCs named after those species. Plants are species too man, Plants are species too.

    Or is every plant a grass type (or sudowoodo) in disguise or an undiscovered species or something?
     
  4. ABC595

    ABC595 Well-Known Member

    Not exactly true, in DPP games we were told that humans evolved from Pokemon, just somewhere along the way we lost our ability to use moves. I'm sure that ultra beasts are basically an evolution of Pokemon too or what Pokemon evolved from.
     
  5. RedJirachi

    RedJirachi Veteran member

    We've seen plenty of humans in Super Mario Bros or Sonic the Hedgehog. I have no problem because they just treat people as another species. The problem with Pokemon is that there's no explanation for how humans exist and are so different from Pokemon, nay how they're even the dominant species in a universe that was literally created by Pokemon for Pokemon. The gods of this world ARE Pokemon. Humans don't fit anywhere. If anything, the Ultra Beasts give some sense because it shows Pokemon aren't necessarily complete dominant, that there can be other forms of life that aren't Pokemon. That humans aren't alone
     
  6. goodpeople25

    goodpeople25 Well-Known Member

    Again you seem to be stiffing all the plants. What do you have have against plants, what did the plants do to you? ;)
     
  7. TyLogic

    TyLogic Well-Known Member

    I would also like to know how humans became the dominant species.
    Humans in the pokemon world claim that humans and pokemon have a symbiotic relationship. But if you think about it there really isn't a symbiotic relationship at all. Pokemon do more for humans in a week than humans do for pokemon in a year. That's no symbiosis if you ask me. I mean when you look at it from another perspective, pokemon are powerful and some are more intelligent than humans so they don't have to tolerate all the nonsense we put them through. Maybe they probably just don't mind us being there. But then it makes you wonder- If pokemon feel like they are being treated poorly why don't they just leave?

    Since when did humans gain this dominance over them?...
     
  8. Hauke_von_Arding

    Hauke_von_Arding Well-Known Member

    The Sinnoh myths in Canalave city are interesting too read. For exemple this things:

    Sinnoh Region's Mythology (Japanese: シンオウちほうの しんわ Sinnoh Region's Myth) is an explanation why wild Pokémon appear in grass.

    Long ago, when Sinnoh had just been
    made, Pokémon and humans led
    separate lives.
    That is not to say they did not help
    each other. No, indeed they did.
    They supplied each other with goods,
    and supported each other.
    A Pokémon proposed to the others
    to always be ready to help humans.
    It asked that Pokémon be ready to
    appear before humans always.
    Thus, to this day, Pokémon appear
    to us if we venture into tall grass.


    Or:

    "Sinnoh Folk Story 3"
    There once were Pokémon that
    became very close to humans.
    There once were humans and Pokémon
    that ate together at the same table.
    It was a time when there existed no
    differences to distinguish the two.


    Interesting is that the Japanese Version of Folk Story 3 tells that Human and Pokemon did marry in the past. Yes... Human and Pokemon did marry each other.

    http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Sinnoh_myths
     
  9. wunderkind

    wunderkind Well-Known Member

    Well, time to break my lurking streak...

    I actually have a theory regarding this.

    To start, there's a theory I've heard other people talk about before that suggests that humans are in fact Pokemon. Basically, it says that in the real world, you have all these living creatures that are categorized as animals, plants, fungi, etc., and that humans fall into the animal category. If you consider Pokemon the animals, plants, etc. of their world, then following this logic, humans would technically be Pokemon as well. This can explain why some humans in the Poke-world seem to have superpowers, like the many Psychics seen throughout the games. Those are residual powers from when humans were originally Pokemon.

    My theory is that human's abilities aren't limited to residual telekinesis, but rather they have a unique ability, one that no other Pokemon has; the ability to amplify power through bonds. In other words, by being caught and bonding with trainers, a Pokemon can reach levels of strength previously unavailable to it. If this sounds familiar, you probably played Pokemon Conquest, which uses an idea similar to this to explain the Warrior/Pokemon relationship. But I believe this theory can work in the main series as well.

    Let's take a look at two Rattata. Both are wild, but they're different levels, let's say, 5 and 10. Which gives more experience after being defeated? The level 10 one, right? But why? Mostly likely because it's a higher level. In other words, it's stronger. Now let's imagine these Rattata are the same level. The only difference between them now is that one is wild, while the other is partnered with a trainer. Which gives more experience? If you've played Pokemon, you know it's the trainer-owned one. Why? Well, following our prior logic, it's that it's stronger, solely because it's owned by a trainer. So Youngster Joey's Rattata isn't top-percentage because it's naturally gifted, but because of the bond the two share.

    Not only can you use this theory to explain why trainer Pokemon give more experience than wild Pokemon, but you could also use it to explain why gym badges allow you to control stronger Pokemon, how Return works, why max friendship is needed to learn the elemental Hyper Beams/Draco Meteor, why friendship is required to evolve certain Pokemon, how a ten-year-old can catch a (supposed) god, why wild Pokemon can't Mega-evolve, and how Ash's Pikachu is so freaking strong. However, I'm going to stop here, because I'd like to keep this text wall on the shorter side, and it's three in the morning oh god.

    TL;DR The symbiotic relationship between humans and Pokemon is based on humanity's natural ability to harness the power of friendship.
     
  10. Erron Black

    Erron Black The Outlaw

    so that explains ash's mom and mr. mime...

    in all seriousness though: does anyone think we'll actually be able to catch them? or do you think they'll be like the monster/pokemon things in pokestar studios or w/e it was in BW2?
     
  11. roserade the warrior

    roserade the warrior Well-Known Member

    A symbiotic relationship is not always about giving and receiving the same amount, just of mutual benefit; one may benefit much more from the other, but that is still symbiosis. And in any case, I would dare to say that humans do a lot for pokemon: humans help them evolve much faster, and in fact, there are certain evolutions that can only be, or at least are far more easier, achieved by human/pokemon interaction (trading and "happiness", for example); this is not always, but more often than not the evolved forms are stronger than the previous version, so it is easier for them to fend off in the wild when they are released, so a higher chance of survivality. The humans are also responsible for the repopulation of pokemon species, or are you gonna tell me those 800 charmanders you bred and released because they were not shiny are just gone? they may never appear on the games, but it is highly shown that they indeed are released on the wild once again, for example with N's pokemons, that you could re-catch (a bit ironic, actually) on B2W2.

    Also what wunderkind said on his/her comment (inside the spoiler).

    Everything points that they are uncatchable (they are not described as pokemon, no UB has a known type, moves or abilities that we know off we havent even seen them in battle, which may suggest we are not going to battle them either -though I really hope that is not the case-), but I am hoping they are. Either way I think they will be awesome.
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2016
  12. Erron Black

    Erron Black The Outlaw

    no, i'm pretty sure when UB-01 was revealed we saw it's battle encounter.
     
  13. roserade the warrior

    roserade the warrior Well-Known Member

    No, we have yet to see a single UB on battle. What we saw was UB-01 getting out of the portal (in the english trailer) and UB-01 getting out of a portal in front of the hero and the Aether admins (japanese trailer). For the UB-02 Beauty/Absorption we saw them just about to battle Tapu koko, but unfortunately everything was cinematic.
     
  14. TyLogic

    TyLogic Well-Known Member

    Well that makes alot of sense. I have played Pokemon conquest too...
    There's just one thing (more than one actually). In pokemon diamond didn't Cyrus say he didn't want to put Dialga (or whoever) in a pokeball because he didn't want to hinder it's abilities? And can you explain why there are more pokemon that hate humans than there are humans who hate pokemon? And yeah pokemon show up to humans in tall grass but why do they have to battle? One could say it's to test the strength of its possible trainer, But it seems more like they don't want to be caught. I mean don't you think it's odd that we have to almost knock a pokemon unconscious before throwing a pokeball? So if there is a symbiotic relationship then it's very one-sided IMO... Can you see where i'm coming from?

    Also maybe pokemon join humans because they know they are flawed compared to them and want to help them. But from a trainers perspective it's almost always about battling and there are plenty of pokemon who don't like battling yet want to be with a trainer. If that happens the probability is kind of high that the trainer will release the pokemon. That will only bring heartache to the pokemon. And what about pokemon who want to battle and be with specific trainer but aren't good at it (Think of Paul and Chimchar)? When it does come to people like Lusamine who want to provide help and refuge for pokemon, there are very few of them. And pokemon like the swords of justice don't care for humans either and they're legendaries which most likely means that they've been around for eons. There are people who seem to be able to tame some legendaries but they all seem to be special (like the player character in core series games).

    Like I said before, what you said makes sense but IMO the reason pokemon stay around humans is still a little ambiguous... Recent pokemon at least...
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2016
  15. goodpeople25

    goodpeople25 Well-Known Member

    Well of course the relationship can appear one sided when you understand one side more than the other. I know this is the internet and no one will know if you're a growlithe but I have my own bias so I assume your a human and not a pokemon.

    Pokemon want to be caught and most pokemon want to battle, (and going by the games I'd say every pokemon we catch wants to, if only because we can't tell otherwise with the current tech, though I think they leave open headcanons like if you decide your pokemon only like contests or something) and yeah we need to weaken them, how else will they know we're strong while staying with workable mechanics. Why most (if not all) Pokemon want to be strong (and even those who don't want to battle still seem to want to be great at what they do) is most likely a pokemon thing, who are we to judge? Some pokemon are mistreated yes but most seem to be because of humans and not really a natural part of the relationship. As for the swords of Justice they are said to turn around once we prove ourselves and they decide it as all Pokemon do.
     
  16. TyLogic

    TyLogic Well-Known Member

    Yeah I kinda thought they all like battling too. But aipom didn't like battling and it ended up being traded (Not really trying to make a point there). Maybe pokemon won't leave it's trainer because it feels like running away from home, which is kinda ironic sense we pretty much kidnapped them from there homes. That Mareep that I got probably had a family. But they don't really seem to care though. Only in the anime do pokemon often want to go with a trainer and a battle is unnecessary (I think the majority of Ashs Kalos team voluntarily went with him which is kind of boring to me). They will just push the button and go in the pokeball. This happens in-game sometimes but it's always for some special reason. It'd be nice if average pokemon could try to befriend us. Anyways you're right. We don't really know the pokemons perspective so it's hard to tell how they feel. But based on our actions it seems kind of wrong. Hopefully we can use the Rotom-Pokedex to speak to pokemon and get a good idea of what they like and don't like. I'd love to find out more about them by using my new pal Roto! (thats gonna be my nickname for him XD). They probably won't give anything specific but lets hope they give enough for us to interpret or at least make an educated guess about how they feel.

    If anything they'd be jealous of my starter for being my favorite and how it's always three levels ahead of them. :D
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2016
  17. goodpeople25

    goodpeople25 Well-Known Member

    Anime dosen't equal the game and as said I think that type of thing in the games is limited to the players imagination. And again the battle and catching thing is limited by the games engine. As for the family thing, there are clearly breeding populations of pokemon behind the scenes and it's impiled that the pokemon who appear to us want to be caught, any pokemon with issues with being caught can be assumed to not appear to us at all.
     
  18. TyLogic

    TyLogic Well-Known Member

    Well I was speaking in a general sense. And not every pokemon that jumps out the grass wants to be caught. I wonder how starter pokemon feel about being starter pokemon?
     
  19. BlitzGirl41

    BlitzGirl41 Well-Known Member

    Obviously they are happy about it because in every single game we are given a starter and then the professor and some other individuals comment about how happy the Pokemon looks with you. Otherwise the professor wouldn't have given you one in the first place. The only time we ever hear in the games that Pokemon are unhappy with their trainers is when they are treated poorly.

    Abra and the wandering Legendaries are the only Pokemon in the games that actively run away from battle...but in Abra's defense, Teleport is the only move it knows in the beginning, so it has no choice.
     
  20. goodpeople25

    goodpeople25 Well-Known Member

    Really, any specific examples? As for starters we don't know specifics for how the professors got them, but I think more points to them being totally fine with it. Breeded pokemon are fine with us, traded pokemon, ect.
     
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