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Ultra Beasts Discussion Thread
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lemoncatpower
Cynical Optimist
No, it's the attention span of children now a days that they are trying to heed to. If the child is going to switch to something else that it enjoys more due to being easier right in the beginning, then obviously GF will do something about that. It's not about being lazy, it's about convenience. Someone who thinks that more convenience = laziness, then that person is probably unconventional.
gliscor&yanmega
Well-Known Member
I don't really grind myself so I exaggerated, takes long enough for me not to bother with, especially in that case since there were only a few trainers to battle against and wild battles just take longer to level up.
Every time I used the Pan Monkeys against them it gave a challenge, since it was always below their level and I guess they manage to get enough Work Ups in to knock my two Pokemon out in time.
Edit: I also only ever used two Pokemon against them as well as never healed during battle. Using more Pokemon than your opponent or healing during battle will obviously make the battle more easy and not as difficult.
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Nerdy McNerdface
Hmph
Lemme put it this way.
It's not laziness, it could be considered as impatience, but likely not laziness. I'm a secondary school student, and whenever I have to grind on Pokemon I can say I do get rather impatient. But instead of shutting the game down, I put some Vocaloid on and bop to that, while the grinding becomes the background thing as I sing my heart out. What it is is not a person going "ooh I can't be bothered to do that", it's more like "I want it NOW, and I have to do this boring stuff in order to get to it". If all they're doing is battling wild Pokemon for an eternity, then it tends to bore them to death. I know people who get super-tired of the grinding phase. I agree with you in that the exp share is BS, but I don't think it's laziness in the slightest.
What I think could be a good idea is if an NPC mentions something like "if you get tired of levelling up your Pokemon, then play some music or a video you like in the background and continue on!" Instead of just whacking in plot device exp share.
Otherwise, I don't know how I'm going to save my generation of humans.
Also, they don't need to grind too much if they have a perfect Volt Switch electric-flying duo.
Bus
Well-Known Member
That sounds accurate. Although, unfortunately, that's precisely why the traditional RPG genre has died lol. Older RPG's like Final Fantasy (pre-7), Dragon Quest, and Disgaea need grinding and exploration and patience in order to complete. Because the expectations and playing style of younger gamers have changed over the years, the traditional RPG genre is forced to either serve a niche audience (like Disgaea), die out, or change so that grinding is no longer necessary (or at the very least is not a 'chore' anymore).
Since I've been playing RPG's since I was little (FF 1 came out when I was born), I've grown up used to long grinds and taken that as part of a game's charm & basic mechanics. Grinding is necessary to challenge the big bad; to get better; and etc, so it has never bothered me. I honestly like grinding and 'preparing' for a tough boss fight (which are more or less Gyms in Pokemon). So that makes the easier difficulty of more modern games stick out to me and sometimes I can't help but look at it as a 'copout' by catering to those who are too impatient to put in the time. At the same time, I understand; it makes perfect business sense; you have to cater to your core audience if you want to keep them. You can't just say 'Deal with it' and expect to see the same sales numbers.
Nerdy McNerdface
Hmph
Which is my main problem with GF - all they really care about is how much money they get off of it. When there is actually likely more adult/secondary school(high school) players who take time to grind who buy the games than young anime viewers who are relatively impatient (not to stereotype but I've seen a good few people like this, who love the world that the game is set in but hate the grind).
And I agree about the traditional RPG genre dying. All my classmates ever talk about concerning RPGs are things like CoD, which is literally no grinding and just plain "pew pew and dodge" mechanics.
But back to topic: seeing as some characters have similarities to some of the UBs, it's likely that the remaining UBs will have a connection as well. Which character do you think looks like which UB? (I'm not trying to imply any theories, it's just that Guzma, Lillie, Lusamine and Gladion having ones that look a lot like them sparked this thought)
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Bus
Well-Known Member
Its hard not to see a connection between Lusamine & UB-Beauty along with Lillie and UB-01, but to be honest, I still feel like its just coincidence for those two. None of the other Ultra Beasts we've seen seem to match anyone. I mean, one of the leaked ones (I wont describe it too much for those who are staying 'leak-free) looks like it kinda...maaaaaybbe...has hair looking like Guzma, but really its a stretch. And the Gladion UB-Absorption thing I don't see at all. I really just want to call 'coincidence; on the whole thing. It sure doesn't seem like any of the other characters, like Alola Velma or hunched over old-dude, have any similarities to the others shown. I just can't see a conneciton beyond those initial two, which makes me think its pure coincidence. Either that or those two were among the first to arrive and thus took those forms to blend in whereas the others just did whatever the heck they wanted.
Orphalesion
Well-Known Member
Now I agree that in recent years RPG have taken a downturn (personally I partly blame Skyrim, but that's a different debate) but let's not go so far as to describe grinding as a thoroughly positive feature that always adds to the enjoyment of an RPG.
The main reason early RPGs included excessive amounts of level grind as an attempt to artificially extend the length of said RPGs at a time where cartridges couldn't hold much story and they had to fill the void somehow.
Even before the advent of causal mobile gaming RPGs were experimenting with ways to cut down on the "fight the same three groups of monsters for three hours before you're good enough to even touch the boss" and that led to pretty good games like Chrono Trigger and Chrono Cross.
I agree that it is sometimes very fun to have your characters crawling on their last leg as you speed through the dungeon,but when it gets excessive, as it often did in very early RPGs, then it's an example of bad game balance.
Of course it's better than many RPGs today where you are led by the hand and your characters tell you exactly how to demolish each boss, but a balance between those two things is what I think should be the goal.
The main reason early RPGs included excessive amounts of level grind as an attempt to artificially extend the length of said RPGs at a time where cartridges couldn't hold much story and they had to fill the void somehow.
Even before the advent of causal mobile gaming RPGs were experimenting with ways to cut down on the "fight the same three groups of monsters for three hours before you're good enough to even touch the boss" and that led to pretty good games like Chrono Trigger and Chrono Cross.
I agree that it is sometimes very fun to have your characters crawling on their last leg as you speed through the dungeon,but when it gets excessive, as it often did in very early RPGs, then it's an example of bad game balance.
Of course it's better than many RPGs today where you are led by the hand and your characters tell you exactly how to demolish each boss, but a balance between those two things is what I think should be the goal.
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Bus
Well-Known Member
Oh no, no, I wouldn't imply that at all. I was just saying that I, personally, enjoy the grind because I'm kinda masochistic that way lol. I see the necessary grind in some games as a challenge; that the game isn't so easy that you can roll in with no practice and beat it without strategizing. Chrono Trigger is another example of a game where you need to grind at least a little, since those boss battles can be pretty tough; you need to actually think things out and play it carefully. Bum rushing the boss (and the game in general) won't work and that's what I like about it. But, like Nerdy McNerdface said, we've kinda derailed the topic a bit and this can honestly be a discussion/debate all on its own lol.
Nerdy McNerdface
Hmph
OMG I JUST THOUGHT
What if the UBs are really around is all the time, hiding, behind an illusion... Of a human?
So the UBs come to our world to do something but in order for them to hide while the plan takes shape, they create illusions of humans? It's super weird, but maybe...?
Edit: and what if at the end you convince them to remain human and so Lillie stays with you, but as she wants to let her past life go she wears a new outfit? Omg I love this.
What if the UBs are really around is all the time, hiding, behind an illusion... Of a human?
So the UBs come to our world to do something but in order for them to hide while the plan takes shape, they create illusions of humans? It's super weird, but maybe...?
Edit: and what if at the end you convince them to remain human and so Lillie stays with you, but as she wants to let her past life go she wears a new outfit? Omg I love this.
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Emperor Empoleon
Honor of Kalos
I predict that the Ultra Beasts are highly advanced Pokemon from alternate dimension. Specifically one where the world was left in such a ruinous state that they were allowed to take over and evolve into what we see today. The ones revealed so far have all been based on resilient, invasive species. And we also have Zygarde, otherwise known as Captain Planet, making its real debut in here instead of its native region...Perhaps to try and fight off some sort of human-made disaster or threat to the environment (as suggested in the PokeDex)? One that led to total collapse in the Ultra Beasts' dimension?
I'm definitely sensing another environmentalist plot.
I'm definitely sensing another environmentalist plot.
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So.... UBs serve Giratina?
Definitely not related to Giratina. But I do get the feeling that the alternate dimensions play a role in this. My biggest question regarding UB's is how they will relate back to the legendary duo in the storyline. Obviously the Aether Foundation ties them all together, and I think the name "Aether" is definitely suited to their actions.
At a wild theory I would say that UB's are not pokemon- but beings of a different universe/dimension. I'd say that perhaps the Aether Foundation has secret goals in which they are harnessing the power of the Sun/Moon to generate gateways into this reality in order to obtain vast resources/energy/knowledge. And in retaliation the native beings there have subsequently made portals into our dimension in retliation to these actions.
Ultra Beasts may not have been initially aggressive- from what we've seen with UB-01. But their first encounters with the pokemon world may have made them hostile. I believe Ultra Beasts aren't the true froms of these beings- but simply ones they create when entering this universe to deal with threats.
As for UB-01 representing Lillie. I believe she is closely connected to the Aether group and perhaps the UB's copied her form believing it would be the ideal way to communicate, before things went awry and they assumed more powerful forms.
Can't wait to see what the actual plot ends up being. I haven't been this intriuged and curious about a plot in a pokemon game before.
At a wild theory I would say that UB's are not pokemon- but beings of a different universe/dimension. I'd say that perhaps the Aether Foundation has secret goals in which they are harnessing the power of the Sun/Moon to generate gateways into this reality in order to obtain vast resources/energy/knowledge. And in retaliation the native beings there have subsequently made portals into our dimension in retliation to these actions.
Ultra Beasts may not have been initially aggressive- from what we've seen with UB-01. But their first encounters with the pokemon world may have made them hostile. I believe Ultra Beasts aren't the true froms of these beings- but simply ones they create when entering this universe to deal with threats.
As for UB-01 representing Lillie. I believe she is closely connected to the Aether group and perhaps the UB's copied her form believing it would be the ideal way to communicate, before things went awry and they assumed more powerful forms.
Can't wait to see what the actual plot ends up being. I haven't been this intriuged and curious about a plot in a pokemon game before.
Legendary Dreams
Well-Known Member
ORAS once touched on the subject of alternate timelines and those are technically also alternate dimensions of their own right, along with the classic dimensions like the Distortion World... that Giratina could live in, despite being a Pokemon (powerful, but still a Pokemon). Perhaps the Ultra Beasts came from "dimensions" that humans/pokemon cannot exist/survive in. I'm saying "dimensions" because I'm not sure whether to classify places you can't exist/survive in as dimensions in the first place... which is also sort of a descriptor for the word Aether (basically we can't breathe in space naturally, science pushed the boundaries but didn't change the properties).
Zoruagible
Lover of underrated characters
Of course they'll have types. Even the fake mons in the BW2 movie studio possessed a typing
While typing is likely it's not a guarantee. I know for battles in BW2 they were required for the battle sequences. But as has been said, we really don't know anything about them. And we are yet to see an in-game screen of us actually battling them. They might have typings. But they might also have abilities which render typings useless
I feel like part of the reason they included the UB's is to create the following question:
"How different can an Alien being be until you just can't consider it a Pokemon anymore." Deoxys is an Alien Pokemon, yes but it and the few others we have do fit in both art wise and concept wise. The UB's don't. If the game tackles this concept, I'll actually be completely fine with the UB's. But hey, who knows.
"How different can an Alien being be until you just can't consider it a Pokemon anymore." Deoxys is an Alien Pokemon, yes but it and the few others we have do fit in both art wise and concept wise. The UB's don't. If the game tackles this concept, I'll actually be completely fine with the UB's. But hey, who knows.
Nerdy McNerdface
Hmph
I like this idea a lot. It would somehow normalise catching them.
But I'm curious as to how the anime would take this idea with Lillie - maybe throughout the whole season Ash gets closer and closer to her but then she gains the courage to tell him she isn't really human, and she's a UB. Likely too deep, but we never know with this anime.
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