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Ultra Class! VS Elite Four Drasna! (1193)

Say what you want about the battle, but can we appreciate how Drasna's personality was written. I loved how intimidating and menacing she was throughout the episode.
Not me. I portray Drasna more as a nice wise grandma type character
 

Zweilous

Go-ing for Gold
Good episode. I looked through a bit of the thread before watching, to get a good gauge on the episode. But I think a lot of people misjudged this episode.

Noivern vs Sirfetch'd wasn't some completely one-sided thing. Sirfetch'd struggled and took a huge amount of damage, but Ash was able to help get its weapons back, it blocked one of Noivern's attacks and countered, and Noivern had to block Meteor Assault. It did pretty well considering it was going in with a handicap, against an unknown enemy.

Dracovish did pretty well against Noivern, and I'm glad Super Fang was portrayed as strong as it was. Noivern is pretty strong to tank x4 Ice Fang, but it still took damage.

Dracovish struggled against Altaria, but it was able to hold its own very well. Ash was able to counter Breaking Swipe and counter the cotton, and Dracovish didn't faint. Dracovish also showed off its naturally silly side, without making it feel like it's dragging out the match or forcing something too hard. It was a great episode to flesh out a Pokemon that has been seriously neglected in the series, without.

I saw some complaining that Ash used Dragon Rush on a Fairy type, but he never encountered a Mega Altaria before. He's familiar with regular Altaria, who isn't a Fairy type.

Sirfetch'd defeating Altaria was bull though. But I did like how Sirfetch'd was knocked out. It suffered serious damage and used all of its power to knock out the enemy. Dracovish vs Noivern, Round 2 was short, but it was cool and showed off the strengths of both Pokemon pretty well.

So I'd say it was a really good battle. The biggest downside is that the last matchups felt rushed, like they ran out of time and needed to wrap things up quickly. But other than that, both looked very creative, analyzing their opponents and coming up with counters and plays. Ash was on the ropes more than Drasna, but he and his opponent were clearly on equal terms throughout.

On Drasna herself, I love her. She has such a fun personality, and I like how they had both her and her Altaria have this little bond before the battle. I liked how Altaria seemed to be displeased (or was looking down on) Ash's Pokemon when they introduced themselves. She reminds me of a benevolent version of Rie Kishibe, from Digimon Cyber Sleuth.
 
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LucasMV

Well-Known Member
I'm glad Sirfetch'd and Dracovish finally got attention. Ash really shouldn't be winning against an E4 with his two more recent captures that are also at a heavy type disadvantage, and Sirfetch'd's fighting type move shouldn't have defeated Mega Altaria. That said, if you overlook all those things, it was a good enough episode.

Volkner's battle is still (and by far) the best one in all our Journeys until now. I got my hopes up that after that one the battles would improve, but I have to say I'm quite disappointed in all the battles that happened since. I've already made my peace with the fact that Ash is going to win with his current team, but I was at least expecting the battles to be as engaging and interesting as Ash vs Volkner was. Hopefully it will be the case in the M8 battles to come.
 

British Soul

Top Hat Regulator
Not an essay time:
Before I get into the meat and potatoes of the episode, I want to begin by saying that I almost forgot about Bonnie's insistence on finding a wife for Clemont until she tried to do so towards the end of the episode, though if she didn't, I would've been shocked. Bonnie mentioning that Clemont had previously battled Drasna in the past came out of left field, and I'd say he battled her for the purposes of training. I do think the Kalos League stadium was a fitting setting for a battle between Ash and Drasna, and it's the first time that Ash has had an official battle at the site of a League Conference. Onto the fight itself, it wasn't the best in the world, and I can see why people have negative opinions about the fight, between the pacing, animation and perhaps even the choice of pokemon against a member of a region's Elite Four. Seeing wet Altaria again, albeit in its mega form was an image I thought I wouldn't see again, unless I specifically google searched it, but that's another matter entirely. I honestly thought it would've been remiss of the writers to not bring up the type change when Altaria mega evolves and the way they went about it was on brand for Ash (heck even Drasna expected this), as it was a rash move on his part, HOWEVER (thanks YGO Progression Series) I will give Ash a pass here as he wasn't to know about M-Altaria's type change as this is the first time he has faced it. I will say, I did like that towards the latter stages of the battle Dracovish and Sirfetch'd, displaying their newfound bond wanted to cheer the other on, it was quite endearing in that regard, as was Wikstrom praising Sirfetch'd on being a true knight. All in all, for a battle that took Ash to the top of the Ultra class, it was kinda weak, especially for Ash's first victory over an Elite Four member as well.
 

Gale_

Member
The episode was kinda trash, but I'll forgive it. Finally my second favorite Pokémon got redeemed after that atrocious jobbing against Bea. Though I wished the battle was a higher quality, I'm happy for E4 level Sirfetch'd and Dracovish.
 

Pokemon Fan

Knuckle Trainer
Can we go back to XY animation please?
Doesn't seem likely unless they get more animators or the series ceases to be weekly. I recall back when the Sun and Moon series was starting they had an interview that addressed the art and animation shift the anime was undergoing, and one reason given for it (if I remember right) was the implication that XY's style was simply putting too much pressure on the animators to keep up any longer, or rather they stated that the shift was something that was easier to work with.
 

deliaketchum

Well-Known Member
The battle was below average considering this was first time ash won against e4. The battle against bea was more entertaining. This felt like writers wanted to pull underdog overcoming strong person scenario but turned out cheap and forced victory. This is because ash was already ranked 15 and the perceived gap between him and drasna at the beginning of battle shouldn’t be that much.

Underdog type situation works when protaganist gets defeated and then wins after training (like ash vs bea/paul) OR the battle itself is shown mildly one sided in favour of opponent (like ash vs gary/drake)
 

Ryker101

Well-Known Member
I actually liked the first half since Ash’s back was against the wall and Drasna was exploiting his weaknesses. Like separating Sirfetch’d from his leek and distracting Dracovish with Altaria’s plumes. Then the constant switching, like to avoid meteor assault’s cooldown as smart too. Ash did get some good hits on Noivern (brutal swing + ice fang collision + a little meteor assault) so its defeat later felt believable me. Can’t say the same about Altaria tho

Second half kinda sucked, cause Dracovish started tanking so many hits even after super fang. But I liked the water gun + dragon rush combo tried going for, when clemont stood up to warn it reminded me when he did that during XY, when Ash tried using flame charge in trick room. The moments between Dracovish and Sirfetchd were good too. But it feels like they were gonna have Ash lose this initially but realised he can’t now, so they gave him a win last minute
 

doofinc

get rillaboomed
Third episode of Journeys I watched (err fourth episode since this was part of a 1 hour; kinda gonna bundle both in this review):

Contextual FYIs:
  1. The only other episodes I watched were Ash vs. Iris (not a fan) and Gary's first return (meh)
  2. I have been keeping up with the general happenings of Journeys
  3. I did read through this thread before watching, and will admit I had a negative bias going into the watching
Pros:
  1. Bonnie is still the goat
  2. Drasna's personality was pretty funny and a definite highlight of the episode
  3. Drasna's Pokemon were demonstrated to be strong in a very good way
    1. Noivern's Boomburst power
    2. Noivern + Altaria clearly having defense training with their wings
  4. Sirfetch'd and Dracovish personalities are still highlights for me
Cons/Someone please contextualize this for me if possible since I didn't watch most of the series:
  1. Ash's Pokemon still seem ultra broken? I know Ash's Dragonite beat Korrina's Mega Lucario without needing Mega Evolution but I can at least attempt to rationalize it by saying that pseudo-legends in the anime are just cracked, but Dracovish/Sirfetch'd managed to take down Mega Altaria without the effort needed compared to, say, the beatdown that all of Ash's Pokemon needed to contribute to defeat Korrina's Mega Lucario during XY
    1. Are Ash's Pokemon just that inexplicably cracked or did I forget about a big training session (i.e. more than just last episode)
  2. NGL there were no cool action sequences at all
  3. Both of Ash's Pokemon really got dumpstered into smacking the opponent right back up
    1. Altaria really got dumpstered after using Cotton Guard vs two Physical Pokemon
      1. I tried to rationalize it with "Cotton Guard in the anime is just expand cotton to "Protect" vs a move, but then they played the stat boost animation afterwards so I can't really justify that
  4. Noivern was kinda rocking both Pokemon then kinda gets smacked up real quick, especially at the end which was kinda weird
    1. I'm aware that glass cannons exist, but the execution of it was not good
    2. I can normally excuse the "get smacked up into whack the opponent out in a couple of moves" if there was some kind of strategy that came with it (i.e. aiming for some kind of critical point, indicating that they are a glass cannon, or at least some kind of cool strategy or action sequence to make it enjoyable) but this wasn't it.
Overall the battle was, to put it nicely, the worst battle to happen in that arena on-screen. When I heard about the PWC for the anime, I was hoping that there would be more interesting battles but hearing that things have been mostly short battles with lackluster animation and strategy has been disappointing, especially now that it's getting closer to the master league. I hope things can get better by then.

Aside: someone let me know which of the previous PWC battles would be worth watching. My only base requirement (asides from it not being a bad battle) is that it's vs. a notable person i.e. Gym Leader, E4, or notable game characters. In other words, how would you order the following battles?
  • Ash vs. Korrina
  • Ash vs. Bea (final)
  • Ash vs. Marnie
  • Ash vs. Volkner

 

LucasMV

Well-Known Member
Aside: someone let me know which of the previous PWC battles would be worth watching. My only base requirement (asides from it not being a bad battle) is that it's vs. a notable person i.e. Gym Leader, E4, or notable game characters. In other words, how would you order the following battles?
  • Ash vs. Korrina
  • Ash vs. Bea (final)
  • Ash vs. Marnie
  • Ash vs. Volkner
Volkner's the best fight in Journeys imo. Not so much for the animation (it's on par with the rest, so not as great as we all wish it'd be) but because of the strategies used. Although they're mostly on Volkner's side and not so much on Ash's, but it still makes for a really good and enjoyable battle.

Then Bea's fight is second on that list, although it hasn't got that much strategy to it, it's mostly just Mega Lucario vs G-Max Machamp and the rest is rushed. But it's a still a good battle with some cool moments.

Korrina and Marnie are only decent battles. Marnie's is a one on one that's ultimately a bit bland and Korrina's is kinda cool just to see how strong Dragonite is. They're not on the same level as the other two though.
 

Fairplay

Well-Known Member
Doesn't seem likely unless they get more animators or the series ceases to be weekly. I recall back when the Sun and Moon series was starting they had an interview that addressed the art and animation shift the anime was undergoing, and one reason given for it (if I remember right) was the implication that XY's style was simply putting too much pressure on the animators to keep up any longer, or rather they stated that the shift was something that was easier to work with.
I do understand their reasoning. No one wants to do overtime and be on the verge of falling apart just to keep up the quality animation. But I think there is more to it. Considering how cheap some shots are looking, I think they underwent a huge budget cut, especially when looking at Journeys. When we look at S&M, the 3D sequences (e.g. Camera flying through the battlefield as in XY) were not used at all. However, S&M still had good animation, as in at times the attacks looked good and the characters were also drawn well.

It is painful to look at the characters from a wider angle in which their eyes are not drawn at all... But oh well, nothing we can do about right? There is a small hope the next season might be qualitative again. Although, I do not keep my hopes up.
 
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SerGoldenhandtheJust

Deluded Dreamer
I thought the Marnie battle was actually really good and well paced. Ignoring that it was just a 1 on 1, there was a lot of strategy used in the battle. And unlike other battles Ash's Gengar didn't take too much damage to make its win not justified. Also loved how it swallwed Marnie's pokemon when it was giant and finished it off. The animation was also much better in that battle than this one.
Yeah, people unfairly are harsh against Marnie coz it was a 1v1 but it was genuinely a top tier battle
Bea also animation wise, esp Machamp vs Lucario was fire, its just the writing was really weak imo (still salty sirfetchd lost against Hawlucha)
Meanwhile Drasna was written well but executed and animated horribly
Hope the last one and master class are bangers
 

SerGoldenhandtheJust

Deluded Dreamer
The animation was bad in that battle. What made it seem good was the storyboarding and battle choregraphy, not surprising since Yajima was the one assigned to it.
Really? I thought it was one of the better animated battles in the series (Although not Visquez or Lance levels)
 

SerGoldenhandtheJust

Deluded Dreamer
It's the presentation of the battle and how the characters were choreographed and moved against the storyboard that made that battle look good. The animation itself was pretty low budget (like most of JN). Hardly anything to do with G-Max.
Well I guess Ill just have to agree to disagree, I didnt get any stiffness feelings from that battle like I usually do with JN
The Pokemon and moves movement seemed very fluid to me personally
 

Xavierlan

New Member
To me the Drasna fight is the first one that looked poorly animated. Marnie, Volker, Bea and Korrina and Iris all have some good animation or some good sequences during the fights.

If the rest of the PWC is at least at Volkner/Marnie/Bea Round 3 in terms of animation I won't have any problems.
 

Ignition

We are so back Zygardebros
Third episode of Journeys I watched (err fourth episode since this was part of a 1 hour; kinda gonna bundle both in this review):

Contextual FYIs:
  1. The only other episodes I watched were Ash vs. Iris (not a fan) and Gary's first return (meh)
  2. I have been keeping up with the general happenings of Journeys
  3. I did read through this thread before watching, and will admit I had a negative bias going into the watching
Pros:
  1. Bonnie is still the goat
  2. Drasna's personality was pretty funny and a definite highlight of the episode
  3. Drasna's Pokemon were demonstrated to be strong in a very good way
    1. Noivern's Boomburst power
    2. Noivern + Altaria clearly having defense training with their wings
  4. Sirfetch'd and Dracovish personalities are still highlights for me
Cons/Someone please contextualize this for me if possible since I didn't watch most of the series:
  1. Ash's Pokemon still seem ultra broken? I know Ash's Dragonite beat Korrina's Mega Lucario without needing Mega Evolution but I can at least attempt to rationalize it by saying that pseudo-legends in the anime are just cracked, but Dracovish/Sirfetch'd managed to take down Mega Altaria without the effort needed compared to, say, the beatdown that all of Ash's Pokemon needed to contribute to defeat Korrina's Mega Lucario during XY
    1. Are Ash's Pokemon just that inexplicably cracked or did I forget about a big training session (i.e. more than just last episode)
  2. NGL there were no cool action sequences at all
  3. Both of Ash's Pokemon really got dumpstered into smacking the opponent right back up
    1. Altaria really got dumpstered after using Cotton Guard vs two Physical Pokemon
      1. I tried to rationalize it with "Cotton Guard in the anime is just expand cotton to "Protect" vs a move, but then they played the stat boost animation afterwards so I can't really justify that
  4. Noivern was kinda rocking both Pokemon then kinda gets smacked up real quick, especially at the end which was kinda weird
    1. I'm aware that glass cannons exist, but the execution of it was not good
    2. I can normally excuse the "get smacked up into whack the opponent out in a couple of moves" if there was some kind of strategy that came with it (i.e. aiming for some kind of critical point, indicating that they are a glass cannon, or at least some kind of cool strategy or action sequence to make it enjoyable) but this wasn't it.
Overall the battle was, to put it nicely, the worst battle to happen in that arena on-screen. When I heard about the PWC for the anime, I was hoping that there would be more interesting battles but hearing that things have been mostly short battles with lackluster animation and strategy has been disappointing, especially now that it's getting closer to the master league. I hope things can get better by then.

Aside: someone let me know which of the previous PWC battles would be worth watching. My only base requirement (asides from it not being a bad battle) is that it's vs. a notable person i.e. Gym Leader, E4, or notable game characters. In other words, how would you order the following battles?
  • Ash vs. Korrina
  • Ash vs. Bea (final)
  • Ash vs. Marnie
  • Ash vs. Volkner
1)Ash vs Volkner (good battle minus the ending and no I don’t care about the anime ignoring immunities before)
2)Ash vs Marnie (solid battle despite the lack of proper build up)
3) Ash vs Korrina (solid in a vacuum)
4) Ash vs Bea (not a fan of the battle at all and was an underwhelming end to their rivalry).
 

Ignition

We are so back Zygardebros
I still think that ending was the best way to end that match. Otherwise it would have just been another dull Pikachu defeats an electric pokemon with Iron Tail or something. Z-moves have always been busted in the anime.

For me if Sirfetch'd was allowed to beat Hawlucha, and Lucario didn't take too much damage at certain points, I would have been fine with that battle.
I disagree with both of these but at least you enjoyed it
 
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