UltraSun and UltraMoon effect on the anime

[dman_dustin]

Only immature fans will hate on Lillie, just like they did on Iris for beating Ash. Honestly the attachment to a fictional 10 year old boy is unhealthy man. If Lillie beats Ash, it will be because she was simply stronger/had more skills. I didn't see anyone crying about Sawyer beating Ash and almost beating him in the Kalos League despite being a novice. Just goes to show the irony I guess. Also liking Lillie=/=hating Ash. Just because someone isn't up Ash's butt 24/7 doesn't mean anyone dislikes him. I suppose you dislike Alain for beating Ash?

As someone who agreed that Ash should've lost, I disliked the battle because it was CLEARLY in favor of Iris. At no point during that tournament did either Ash or Iris use their respective Pokemon, and despite knowing obviously that Iris was going to use a ground type and steel type, Ash made no effort to choose anything other than Pikachu. So yes it made sense for Iris to win, only because the writers forced the battle to be between Excadrill and Pikachu and clearly a "screw you" to Ash unless that was their subtle way of saying it was the ONLY way Iris could win, then nevermind.

Lillie beating Ash on the other hand, makes no sense whatsoever, so while I won't hate Lillie if she beats Ash, I'll be extremely upset that the writers could be stupid enough to write nonsense for Lillie beating Ash.

All she has is an Alolan Vulpix and she rarely battles, how the hell is she going to beat Ash, is he going to catch a Wimpod and Lillie uses Tapu Koko?

 

[janejane6178]

All she has is an Alolan Vulpix and she rarely battles, how the hell is she going to beat Ash, is he going to catch a Wimpod and Lillie uses Tapu Koko?

THIS. She only has one new born Pokemon which she NEVER battles with. So how do u call someone like that a trainer?

 

[Pokegirl Fan~]

THIS. She only has one new born Pokemon which she NEVER battles with. So how do u call someone like that a trainer?

Wrong she already did battle with Snowy so this argument is already proven wrong.

 

[Frozocrone]

THIS. She only has one new born Pokemon which she NEVER battles with. So how do u call someone like that a trainer?

She has a Pokémon.

Most if not all trainers seem to have one, regardless of profession.

 

[Satomine Night]

THIS. She only has one new born Pokemon which she NEVER battles with. So how do u call someone like that a trainer?

The same way Ash was considered a Trainer even when he had just started out with only Pikachu. Lillie is a fledgling Pokémon Trainer. She may have little to no experience, but she has battled a few times, and she has expressed interest in becoming a better Pokémon Trainer. Besides, Professor Kukui outright stated she is a Pokémon Trainer when Shiron became her first Pokémon in SM14.

That being said, I agree that it doesn't make much sense for Lillie, a rookie Trainer, to defeat Ash, a seasoned Trainer, even if she pulls a Sawyer and unrealistically rapidly progresses as a Trainer. I will be rather upset if Lillie defeats Ash at any kind of major battling competition.

 

[Zoruagible]

Lillie winning would be far far worse than Sawyer. The four Iris fans in existence will know nothing compared to the hate Lillie will rightfully get if she beat Ash.

You're missing the point, you don't see people hating the Green Goblin for defeating Spiderman.

That's cause the heroes always end up beating the villain in the end.... unless it's a pet favorite, like Ock is right now.

 

[SinnohEevee]

The same way Ash was considered a Trainer even when he had just started out with only Pikachu. Lillie is a fledgling Pokémon Trainer. She may have little to no experience, but she has battled a few times, and she has expressed interest in becoming a better Pokémon Trainer. Besides, Professor Kukui outright stated she is a Pokémon Trainer when Shiron became her first Pokémon in SM14.

That being said, I agree that it doesn't make much sense for Lillie, a rookie Trainer, to defeat Ash, a seasoned Trainer, even if she pulls a Sawyer and unrealistically rapidly progresses as a Trainer. I will be rather upset if Lillie defeats Ash at any kind of major battling competition.

They can have her catch Nebby and make it fully evolve. It still would be poor writing though.

 

[AshxSatoshi]

As someone who agreed that Ash should've lost, I disliked the battle because it was CLEARLY in favor of Iris. At no point during that tournament did either Ash or Iris use their respective Pokemon, and despite knowing obviously that Iris was going to use a ground type and steel type, Ash made no effort to choose anything other than Pikachu. So yes it made sense for Iris to win, only because the writers forced the battle to be between Excadrill and Pikachu and clearly a "screw you" to Ash unless that was their subtle way of saying it was the ONLY way Iris could win, then nevermind.

Lillie beating Ash on the other hand, makes no sense whatsoever, so while I won't hate Lillie if she beats Ash, I'll be extremely upset that the writers could be stupid enough to write nonsense for Lillie beating Ash.

All she has is an Alolan Vulpix and she rarely battles, how the hell is she going to beat Ash, is he going to catch a Wimpod and Lillie uses Tapu Koko?

I don't get why fans are still upset about that. There are plenty of times where another trainer won because of type of advantage. Who else was Ash going to use? Oshawoot? Snivy? Tepig? Swoodlon? I'm sorry but if any of them beat Excadrill it would of been forced. Iris did use her respective Pokémon against Luke when Axew learned outrage. In fact she used ALL her Pokémon.

Why is such a problem if Lillie beats Ash? Ash can be "seasoned" all he wants but he basically resets every region. I realise fans don't want to believe that but that's the case. It's not like he's kept the same strong team since OS. Why is not realistic that Lillie could raise Pokémon and train them just as well as Ash? Winning battles isn't all just about being more seasoned. Ash travelled just as many regions as Paul yet still kept getting whooped day by day despite him having similar experience as him

Lillie winning would be far far worse than Sawyer. The four Iris fans in existence will know nothing compared to the hate Lillie will rightfully get if she beat Ash.



That's cause the heroes always end up beating the villain in the end.... unless it's a pet favorite, like Ock is right now.

I realize most of you like your characters as housewives with crushes on Ash that goes nowhere but I don't see why a PokeGirl cant beat Ash without getting immature hate. And you act like hate on them is going to change their fans opinions.

 

[Frozocrone]

It would depend on how Lillie beats Ash if she does beat him.

In a league with little build up? Yeah that's bad.

Using a legendary she's bonded with, or extensively battled and trained onscreen? Acceptable (maybe not the legendary part). Basically wins have to be earned and worked for.

 

[Satomine Night]

Why is such a problem if Lillie beats Ash? Ash can be "seasoned" all he wants but he basically resets every region. I realise fans don't want to believe that but that's the case. It's not like he's kept the same strong team since OS. Why is not realistic that Lillie could raise Pokémon and train them just as well as Ash? Winning battles isn't all just about being more seasoned. Ash travelled just as many regions as Paul yet still kept getting whooped day by day despite him having similar experience as him

Except Ash has not been reset this time—at least, his battle skills haven't been reset. He is still a skilled, competent Trainer (and I am not in denial about that. I wasn't expecting him to retain most of his battle skills, so I was rather pleasantly surprised that he did).

If Shiron weren't a newborn, or if Lillie were to catch another, older Pokémon, then I could see her defeating any of Ash's current team except Pikachu, because although Ash is an experienced Trainer, his Alola Pokémon are relatively inexperienced by comparison. But Shiron is a newborn, so unless Lillie starts hyper-training, I don't see how Shiron will realistically catch up to Ash's Pokémon.

If Lillie is up against Pikachu, however, then her Pokémon might as well just throw in the towel.

 

[AshxSatoshi]

Except Ash has not been reset this time—at least, his battle skills haven't been reset. He is still a skilled, competent Trainer (and I am not in denial about that. I wasn't expecting him to retain most of his battle skills, so I was rather pleasantly surprised that he did).

If Shiron weren't a newborn, or if Lillie were to catch another, older Pokémon, then I could see her defeating any of Ash's current team except Pikachu, because although Ash is an experienced Trainer, his Alola Pokémon are relatively inexperienced by comparison. But Shiron is a newborn, so unless Lillie starts hyper-training, I don't see how Shiron will realistically catch up to Ash's Pokémon.

If Lillie is up against Pikachu, however, then her Pokémon might as well just throw in the towel.

Newborn has nothing to do with it IMO. Eevee was newborn Cyndaquil was a newborn Froakie was a newborn and Noibat was a newborn yet they've held their own weight within a series.

 

[GarchompTheAssassin]

I have no idea why people are comparing Lillie competing with Ash to Sawyer competing with Ash.... one is the main member of the SM cast who's going to end up with the most spotlight of any character barring Ash and another is a recurring character who gets to go to Offscreen Land

 

[AshxSatoshi]

I have no idea why people are comparing Lillie competing with Ash to Sawyer competing with Ash.... one is the main member of the SM cast who's going to end up with the most spotlight of any character barring Ash and another is a recurring character who gets to go to Offscreen Land

My point, I started the comparison because people RARELY hate on Sawyer for being almost as a good as Ash (the XY fanboys and Lillie haters will say otherwise) yet he was given a out of jail free card. Yet if Lillie receives proper development, trains her Pokémon and take down the AF she's still unworthy of taking down the "all mighty" Ash.

 

[SinnohEevee]

My point, I started the comparison because people RARELY hate on Sawyer for being almost as a good as Ash (the XY fanboys and Lillie haters will say otherwise) yet he was given a out of jail free card. Yet if Lillie receives proper development, trains her Pokémon and take down the AF she's still unworthy of taking down the "all mighty" Ash.

I think Sawyer would have been hated if he beat Ash in the League.

 

[AshxSatoshi]

I think Sawyer would have been hated if he beat Ash in the League.

He still came close to doing it and beat Ash once ot twice already.

 

[ShadowForce720]

My point, I started the comparison because people RARELY hate on Sawyer for being almost as a good as Ash (the XY fanboys and Lillie haters will say otherwise) yet he was given a out of jail free card. Yet if Lillie receives proper development, trains her Pokémon and take down the AF she's still unworthy of taking down the "all mighty" Ash.

The difference is no matter how you look at it Sawyer has more experience then Lillie considering by the time he met Ash he a Treecko, Slurpuff, and Bagon, and like 2 episodes later his Treecko evolved into Grovyle and was the same evolutionary stage as Frogadier and at that point Ash had 4 pokemon with him while Sawyer has 3. Plus if you think nobody hates Sawyer you should have seen it when Sawyer was got introduce, people were bashing him and stuff. No matter how you look at it would be incredibly force for Lille to beat Ash and all of his pokemon by the end of the series.

Does it make sense for Lillie to beat Ash in a league towards the end of the series? No, it does not especially when you have a much better character for that in Gladion who has a Type:Null that will likely be a Sivally towards the end of the series, so tell what's so important that it has to be Lillie that beats Ash over Gladion.

He still came close to doing it and beat Ash once ot twice already.

He only beat Ash once that was because Ash was distracted by the fact that he wasn't able to trigger battle bond in that battle and was more focus on that then the battle and that's why Ash lost, had he stayed focus on the battle he probably would have won.

 

[SinnohEevee]

I still see no logical reason for why Lillie should beat Ash. Why would he lose to her? He's much more experienced than her. How comes she can win but not him? Ash has to suffer and lose League after League while she can win her first one? Do they give her an OP Legendary (final form of Nebby) on a silver plate?

 

[Satomine Night]

Newborn has nothing to do with it IMO. Eevee was newborn Cyndaquil was a newborn Froakie was a newborn and Noibat was a newborn yet they've held their own weight within a series.

Err...Froakie was not a newborn.

Perhaps I should have elaborated. Realistically, unless Lillie starts hyper training with Shiron, then Shiron will not be able to catch up to Ash's team, because Ash is also training and his Pokémon are also progressing. It would be like trying to beat someone who is faster than you in a race when you start off already 15 steps behind.

I'm not saying it's impossible for Lillie's Shiron to defeat one of Ash's Alola Pokémon. But it is highly unlikely that, with Lillie's current training regimen, Shiron would be able to catch up to and defeat one of Ash's Pokémon.

 

[Jangobadass]

I'm not saying it's impossible for Lillie's Shiron to defeat one of Ash's Alola Pokémon. But it is highly unlikely that, with Lillie's current training regimen, Shiron would be able to catch up to and defeat one of Ash's Pokémon.

I don't know...this IS Sun & Moon. The way Pokemon get strong quick with little or no onscreen training (right, Steenee?) I wouldn't put it pass them...

Though I doubt Lillie will battle Ash at any point, let alone defeat him in the League of all places.

Where did you guys even get that anyway That's almost it's own thread. Arceus knows it's a long way off or even if there will be a League this time...

Let's stick to the topic at hand, okay?

 

[deoxysdude94]

I think the show might turn a little darker whenever lusamine is introduced. Whatever they have planned, it's gonna be different. VERY different. SM broke a lot of norms in the anime to begin with.

I'm thinking there's a possibility they may change the main characters to ash, lillie, and gladion. Or maybe lillie vanishes or is kidnapped, and the rest of the crew tries to find her.