TheEliteEmpoleon
Well-Known Member
My Speed Boost Sharpedo absolutely destroys people's teams when they're done laughing at it... I really likeusing it, and I rarely ever see anyone else using one.
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Underrated Pokemon
- Thread starter OceanicLanturn
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JamesHardenRocket
New Member
If only the shark head without a body actually had better defenses than a .. well.. shark head without a body
John Wallrein
I am the walrein
Exactly. It has beyond abyssmal defenses at 70/40/40 and can be easily worn down and revenged. He even takes a minimum of 56% from a Banded Scizor's Bullet Punch. The fact that he has no way of boosting his attack also leaves him to not be that great.
TheEliteEmpoleon
Well-Known Member
Well I somehow make him work, with a little help from the rest of the team, and with Protect in the moveset, I can help determine what to do. He basically doesn't need any defense once he's set up, which isn't too hard.
Zachmac
Well-Known Member
I've used it before, and Sharpedo is a fine pokemon. It can be pulled off in OU, but I wouldn't say it's underrated. Like people have said, it's defense is awful, and without a way to boost it's attack outside of rain, finds everything besides it's Waterfall is relatively weak for a sweeper. It's coverage is pretty lacking as well.
All it's really good for is cleaning the enemies team when it's weakened, which isn't really that unique of a niche.
Dragonicwari
Artistically angry
I actually find Gallade to be pretty under rated. I use to run bulk up Gallade built lately I have been running Band Ade, and ignoring the fact I was on a losing streak this afternoon, the current team using Gallade seems to have turned it around somewhat. I mostly find myself abusing Gallade against the 3 musketeers (though spec's Keldeo may become a problem, have!n't ran into one yet)
While it's true there was a PoTW recently about this, that's not why I bring this pokemon up. I've always been a fan, for years and years.
Slowbro.
One of the most underrated pokemon in OU out there. It has fantastic bulk, an incredible moveset, a great ability, and decent typing.
Some may say it's outclassed by Jellicent, but I disagree; Slowbro has a vastly different movepool and overall use in battling.
So yeah, Je l'aime beaucoup.
Slowbro.
One of the most underrated pokemon in OU out there. It has fantastic bulk, an incredible moveset, a great ability, and decent typing.
Some may say it's outclassed by Jellicent, but I disagree; Slowbro has a vastly different movepool and overall use in battling.
So yeah, Je l'aime beaucoup.
Zachmac
Well-Known Member
Band looks fine in OU, but as for Bulk Up....eh...
115 special defense is great, but that HP ruins it. Bulk Up helps to cover it's defense, but it doesn't do that great up a job.
It also just receives too much competition as far as band goes. Conkeldurr carries an even higher attack and can opt out of the choice band instead, the rarer Machamp can use No Guard Dynamic Punch to mess with it's usual swap ins, and most notably, Terrakion carries amazing STAB coverage and actually has higher special defense in a sand storm.
I guess it could be a pokemon if you need a Terrakion check and some choice band at the same time, but that's a little situational.
Yeah, I love that guy. Being able to swap out like that and get healed in doing so is really nifty. I think that guy should be in OU, actually. Sure, I've seen some fair arguments against it, but it's better then Metagross and Lucario, that's for sure.
Dragonicwari
Artistically angry
My biggest problem with Slowbro is how volt turn weak he is (even though he can recover a good portion of it off, 1 crit will always hurt a lot)
As for Gallade, I run him on a sand team and the set I made specifically to take care of:
Gastrodon
specs Toed (outspeed and either ohko's by the time he comes in or deals enough for toed to not last much longer)
Scarf Terrakion
Breloom
Weakened Latios
Other random miscellaneous threats that I'm not thinking of
These guys appeared to be the biggest threats to the team and I've found him pretty solid so far. Unless you have a better option to take care of that... Weird group of Pokemon. When I ran bulk up I also ran a lot of burning moves on my team so he could come in on even life orb Mamo and set up. I will admit his speed leaves something to be desired and he is situational but every team I have out him on he fit like a glove. The lack of changing moves seemed like a problem at first but because of gallade's speed I found myself predicting switch ins 90% of the time anyways so I decided I didn't care about setting up
As for Gallade, I run him on a sand team and the set I made specifically to take care of:
Gastrodon
specs Toed (outspeed and either ohko's by the time he comes in or deals enough for toed to not last much longer)
Scarf Terrakion
Breloom
Weakened Latios
Other random miscellaneous threats that I'm not thinking of
These guys appeared to be the biggest threats to the team and I've found him pretty solid so far. Unless you have a better option to take care of that... Weird group of Pokemon. When I ran bulk up I also ran a lot of burning moves on my team so he could come in on even life orb Mamo and set up. I will admit his speed leaves something to be desired and he is situational but every team I have out him on he fit like a glove. The lack of changing moves seemed like a problem at first but because of gallade's speed I found myself predicting switch ins 90% of the time anyways so I decided I didn't care about setting up
Zachmac
Well-Known Member
I always run Thunderwave on it, and that seems to handle the Rotom-W just fine...but you're right, being weak to both electric and bug is kind of bad in this metagame.
This is why it isn't underrated. It can handle the weird group that your team needs, but it won't find a home as well on others.
Squiddly Dee
∈ (⊙ ⊖ ⊙) ∋
Eh... I wouldn't call that 'underrated.' I see those all the time.
I think Krookodile is a very underrated UU physical sweeper. It has a very high attack stat, good type coverage, and it's overall proven to be a very good team member for me, especially with Moxie + Baton Pass support. But even more underrated is Azumarill, the star player of my UU team. It's got off-the-charts attack power, decent bulk, priority, good type coverage... what more could you ask for? And when it gets Baton Pass support... oh wow.
Dragonicwari
Artistically angry
A list of all the Ou pokes Gallade can handle 1v1 with the appropriate move:
Alakazam (any)
Blissey (any)
Breloom (any)
Celebi (non specs/ nasty plot, scarf has a small chance of 2hkoing Gallade)
Conkeldurr (252 hp/ 0 def depends on damage roll, I don't think a lot of Conks even run 252 hp)
Dugtrio (any)
Espeon (any)
So out of the first 10 ou pokes, Band Gallade takes out 5 all of the time, at least 2 depending on the set, and possibly 3 others that I felt like it had a good chance of losing to/ wouldn't be worth the effort since they run a lot of sets. I'd say this guy is pretty under rated for a non ou poke (I don't think he covers 50-70% of the entire Meta, but I think he covers enough)
Zachmac
Well-Known Member
And you say this like other pokemon can't? There are plenty of pokemon that can rip others apart with the appropriate move and a choice item. It also has some fierce competition out there. And again, while it's not Sharpedo, the guy isn't exactly bulky. Especially when it comes to defense. It's not exceptionally fast either...so, it's relatively slow, it's relatively frail, and all it really has going for it is it's attack and coverage. Both are good, but you'll want some more speed or bulk to back it up.
And finally....beating Dugtrio and Espeon isn't that much of a feat. They're OU because of their abilities, not because they're "powerful".
Hm...makes me thing of a conversation I had about Emboar a long time ago...
Dragonicwari
Artistically angry
Actually your point was (and I quote):
Lol Zachmac, I went trough the first 10 mons in ou and went: " I think it can beat this this and this no matter what set it runs." I was right for 5 out of 7 and the two I was wrong about it still beats some sets. Also: Espeon has base 130 sp atk, last I checked that was right up there with the most common sweepers in ou, so explain to me how that isn't powerful? Being bulky and powerful aren't the same thing.
This reminds me of a lot of conversations I have had when people didn't give a mon enough credit
I was trying to show that it actually covers a lot more mons than just the weird group I need. So while you just changed your argument about why it was underrated, I would just like to respond with this. Gallade seems to cover a unique niche that a lot of teams could take advantage of. Gallade isn't the fastest or the bulkiest. Those are the reason's why it's not well used. However it happens to be just fast enough and just bulky enough to do what it needs to do best: cover a group of pokemon reliably that I have been unable to find any other Pokemon capable of doing (and honestly I'm glad you brought up whatever caused me to make my last post because I was looking for a Poke that covered X, Y, and Z. Now I know I have A,B,C, and F covered as well. Probably more that I don't know about).
Lol Zachmac, I went trough the first 10 mons in ou and went: " I think it can beat this this and this no matter what set it runs." I was right for 5 out of 7 and the two I was wrong about it still beats some sets. Also: Espeon has base 130 sp atk, last I checked that was right up there with the most common sweepers in ou, so explain to me how that isn't powerful? Being bulky and powerful aren't the same thing.
This reminds me of a lot of conversations I have had when people didn't give a mon enough credit
OceanicLanturn
Non non non!
Espeon is pretty much UU without Magic Bounce. It was in DPP NU. That's why most people who use Espeon don't go for a CM Set or anything. Usually it's either Baton Passer or Dual Screener. As a sweeper, Alakazam pretty much outclasses it with higher speed and special attack. Both have equal bad bulk, with Espeon a tad bit less miserable. If we're talking about attacker, Latios has better speed, special attack and a far superior bulk. Latias is the most often used one, for being the bulkiest amongst those mentioned and practically better STAB and resistances. Reuinclus says hi if you want to go full bulk. It's like, bulky slow special attacker that can set up CM. So yeah, Espeon isn't the best special attacker, but the CM set I tried can be a bit unpredictable, yet it's outclassed.
Anyways, I find that CB Ferothorn is really underrated. Most people see Ferrothorn, they're like: Hurrr durr Ferrothron muz goz Heatran. Tehy eat a Bulldoze right smack in their face. Ferrothorn can also last-ditch with Explosion, which despite the nerf, is still powerful. The point is that Explosion is a surprising move to see on Ferrothorn. They may think. Wow, Bulldoze? But I bet it used it over Gyro Ball/Power Whip to deal with Heatran. Nope. Boom in their face. I've never encountered anyone who went to a steel before my Ferro explodes into pieces.
Zachmac
Well-Known Member
The point I was making was that there is usually a better pokemon for the job. The only niche it really has over other fighting types is it's psychic type, and besides that, it's outclassed.
Unless you really want your fighting type to resist a fighting attack or something, like your team did with Terrakion, there will be a better pokemon for the job.
Not to mention it's weak coverage. It's got hidden power fighting and that's about it. And it's not like psychic STAB is all that great to begin with...and half the time, it'll want HP fire to handle those Ferrothorns/Forretresses instead.
Espeon is actually a pretty bad offensive option. It's mostly for support against entry hazards and the like.
Reuniclus is also arguably the best "fast" psychic type. Give it a life orb and trick room, and that thing is significantly more dangerous then Espeon, who is easily revenge killed and walled.
I've actually been considering using one of those.
Perhaps for a sweeper who has similar checks/counters to Ferrothorn? From my understanding, the Choice Band set is meant to lure out Ferrothorn's usual counters. Give it wish support, and it could be an interesting choice on a bulky offense team centered around a sweeper with similar threats to it...
Usatoday
Eternal God
I can testify to how good gallade is
Conk lacks a base 120 attack other than superpower and terrak lacks Ice punch and trick making gallade more of an ideal choice bander in my mind
KillerDraco
Well-Known Member
TBH, I don't think Baton Pass support should really be considered, since most Pokemon are able to demolish teams with said support.
And though I like Azumarill's power and bulk, I think it's the speed and shallow movepool that hold him back. You pretty much always know what Azumarill is going to be carrying; a Water/Ice/Fighting core. There may be some variations (SubPunch vs. Superpower, Waterfall and/or Aqua Jet), and you might see a surprise Toxic every now and again, but it's pretty predictable, and when not using Aqua Jet it's pretty slow. Bulky Waters (especially Slowbro) and defensive Grass types who can take an Ice Punch stop it dead.
I think it's the fact that it's so predictable which kind of prevent it from being truly underrated. Everyone knows what to expect from it.
Dragonicwari
Artistically angry
I said Espeon has the power of most common sweepers, not that it is a good sweeper. Besides it has Shadow ball which will nail Gallade for some serious damage, but still fails to take out Gallade. (Unless I forgot to double check something) Besides, I also said power does not equal bulk, I never even tried to say Espeon was bulky. It was just on a list of mons Gallade can reliably beat
Gallade happens to also beat every common fighting type in the tier bar Specs Keldeo in the rain (outside of rain Timid Keldeo only has a 19% chance to Ohko) and life orb Infernape with flare blitz, not to shabby of a niche considering it also covers plenty of other mons in the tier
It seems to me that it is a pretty solid stab considering I can cover almost every fighting type in the tier with it. Also if your talking about Espeon, it has shadow ball. 252 sp atk Espeon using Shadow ball is still going to be smacking some stuff hard. I actually ran a calc of specs Espeon using shadow ball against Gallade. Gallade lives, not half bad considering espeon has a base 130 sp atk, shadow ball will have a base 160 power against Gallade and Espeon was using specs.
252Atk Choice Band Gallade (Neutral) Close Combat vs 252HP/252Def Leftovers Ferrothorn (+Def): 96% - 114% (338 - 402 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO. 78% chance to OHKO.
252Atk Choice Band Gallade (Neutral) Close Combat vs 252HP/252Def Leftovers Sturdy Forretress (+Def): 45% - 54% (162 - 192 HP). Guaranteed 3HKO. 4% chance to 2HKO with Leftovers.
Seems like Ferrothorn/ Forretress isn't a problem... Especially if they leave Forretress in to set up hazards they lose their spinner. Also: Gallade has base 65 sp atk. It won't want hp fire ever
252Atk Choice Band Gallade (Neutral) Close Combat vs 252HP/252Def Leftovers Sturdy Forretress (+Def): 45% - 54% (162 - 192 HP). Guaranteed 3HKO. 4% chance to 2HKO with Leftovers.
Seems like Ferrothorn/ Forretress isn't a problem... Especially if they leave Forretress in to set up hazards they lose their spinner. Also: Gallade has base 65 sp atk. It won't want hp fire ever
Once again what I was saying about Espeon. It can hit hard, I didn't mean it would be a good sweeper
I wasn't saying it was a good offensive option, I was saying it can hit hard. Kinda similiar to Rampardos or Slawking: they are bad offensive options but hit hard.
I don't think this part was aimed at me
UbersSuck20
#FreeGenesect
Air Balloon exists for a reason. CB Ferrothorn is set up on and doesn't really hit that hard. Still a surprising set, though.
I wonder why nobody uses Normal Kyurem. Sure, Kyurem-B exists, but it can't stall with SubRoost, whereas Normal Kyurem is an irritating staller. In February, Normal Kyurem was less used than ELECTIVIRE of all things. *facepalm*
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