Underrated Pokemon

[Sparkbeat]

^Jynx suffers from the "Hydreigon syndrome". She's just too slow. She also lacks priority moves. At least Breloom has Mach Punch.
Miltank.... There are just way too many Fighting-types.
I agree with Mandibuzz.


ParaShuffler Dragonite can use Flamethrower and have some of its teammates use Thunder Wave.

I have battled Parashuffler Nite and not once has it ever had Flamethrower, and it was partnered with a ScarfRachi for flinch hax. I'm sorry, but no one runs Flamethrower on ParaShuffler Nite.

Jynx - It's actually a really nice rain counter, once priority it out of the way.
Miltank - Like UberSucks said, too many fighting types, and 80 Atk kinda sucks in OU :/ Along with meh SDef and no useful resistances.
Mandibuzz - It's nice on stall sometimes. Rotom-W and Thundurus-T are annoying for it, along with TTar and Terrakion. It can work, but needs to have its weaknesses covered well. It's also outclassed by Skarmory as a mixed wall imo, since they get beat by generally the same things (Rain boosted Hydro Pumps won't be nice on Mandi either) and outclassed by Jellicent and Gastrodon as a special wall.

 

[OceanicLanturn]

Lol guys this thread isn't restricted to OU only.

I personally find Miltank decent in Nu though. It's a good supporter, but it just falls to Socks.

 

[UbersSuck20]

| ExtremeSpeed 60.486% |
| Dragon Dance 57.246% |
| Outrage 54.480% |
| Fire Punch 48.422% |
| Earthquake 36.693% |
| Roost 28.990% |
| Dragon Claw 24.819% |
| Hurricane 14.959% |
| Thunder 10.588% |
| Superpower 8.831% |
| Dragon Tail 8.654% |
| Substitute 7.579% |
| Draco Meteor 7.479% |
| Thunder Wave 6.729% |
| Waterfall 4.835% |
Flamethrower is not on this list, while only 6.7% of all Dragonite ran Thunder Wave. Hmmmmmmmmm....
Though Smogon says ParaShuffling Dragonite can run Flamethrower if it has paralysis support from something like Jirachi with Thunder.

As for Miltank, it doesn't work in tiers above RU.

I've found Sceptile to be surprisingly useful in UU with a combination of Focus Sash and Unburden.

 

[Sparkbeat]

I've found Sceptile to be surprisingly useful in UU with a combination of Focus Sash and Unburden.

Agree with you here. The sheer unpredictability of Sceptile is great. I've thought of running Acrobats with the Special Attacking Set just to bluff a physical set, so when they send out their physical was I can get another KO. Sceptile is really a great Pokemon in the lower tiers.

 

[Cosmic Fury]

I don't really post sets for UU. For OU? That's the reason I love this thread!

Has anyone tried a specially bulky Latios set? I find those to be very effective against many of its counters.

 

[Sparkbeat]

I don't really post sets for UU. For OU? That's the reason I love this thread!

Has anyone tried a specially bulky Latios set? I find those to be very effective against many of its counters.

I can see it helping against starmie some, but not really anything else :/ For its counters, Sdef Rachi is a physical attacker, as is TTar, Scizor, and Mamoswine. Honestly I don't know what Special bulk would be doing for you :/ And if you want it to be bulkier then just use Latias so you can still go 252 Spa / 252 Spd

 

[Dragonicwari]

I'd like to say Cress is pretty under rated. I think I was using a specially defensive one earlier and it took 30% from a gengars shadow ball. Seriously, give that a little thought. As long as your not running rain/ sand it's pretty solid. Even if you are running a weather less team you could always throw on sunny day (since people tend to sac their weather starters ASAP when you don't run weather)

 

[Szayel]

Zebstrika. I once took out a guy's Scizor and then proceeded to sweep his entire team afterwards.

 

[KillerDraco]

Zebstrika. I once took out a guy's Scizor and then proceeded to sweep his entire team afterwards.

Beating a random person isn't necessarily a compelling argument for why a Pokemon is underrated.

Poor defenses, average (at best) offenses, and a crappy movepool all work against Zebstrika. Yeah, it gets fire attacks, but it gets generally outclassed by Jolteon (who is faster and stronger), Thundurus-T (who hits monumentally harder), Rotom-W, Magnezone, Raikou, and Zapdos (all of whom have considerably more bulk than Zebstrika). There's just so many better electric types that Zebstrika isn't really underrated at all. It has one good stat, and that's speed.

 

[Szayel]

Beating a random person isn't necessarily a compelling argument for why a Pokemon is underrated.

Poor defenses, average (at best) offenses, and a crappy movepool all work against Zebstrika. Yeah, it gets fire attacks, but it gets generally outclassed by Jolteon (who is faster and stronger), Thundurus-T (who hits monumentally harder), Rotom-W, Magnezone, Raikou, and Zapdos (all of whom have considerably more bulk than Zebstrika). There's just so many better electric types that Zebstrika isn't really underrated at all. It has one good stat, and that's speed.

That was one scenario. The reason why I think Zebstrika is underrated is because people play Zebstrika the wrong way (IMHO). People, like you, assume that Zebstrika is a special sweeper, when it honestly works out better as a physical sweeper instead. My moveset with Zebstrika is Swagger, Wild Charge, Flame Charge, and Protect. Since we all know that Zebstrika's defenses are horrible, swagger isn't too much of a issue. Also, you can use protect to get in a confusion hit or two. This with a life orb and a physically-promoting nature can work wonders.

 

[KillerDraco]

That was once scenario. The reason why I think Zebstrika is underrated is because people play Zebstrika the wrong way (IMHO). People, like you, assume that Zebstrika is a special sweeper, when it honestly works out better as a physical sweeper instead. My moveset with Zebstrika is Swagger, Wild Charge, Flame Charge, and Protect. Since we all know that Zebstrika's defenses are horrible, swagger isn't too much of a issue. Also, you can use protect to get in a confusion hit or two. This with a life orb and physically-promoting nature can work wonders.

Problem is it's walled to hell and back by many, many common things (Dragons, Gastrodon, Tyranitar, Hippowdon, Landorus, Donphan, Gliscor), any Lum Berry user (such as Dragonite or Toxicroak) gets a free Swords Dance from Swagger, and many common priority attacks (Mach Punch, Extreme Speed, Aqua Jet, Ice Shard) will 1HKO it with ease. Plus Swagger is a risky move that can screw you over, making it unreliable. Even as a physical attacker, Zebstrika's crappy movepool limits its effectiveness. The reason most people go special is because it has more options, and it needs HP Ice to prevent it from being walled as easily as physical sets.

 

[Sparkbeat]

That was one scenario. The reason why I think Zebstrika is underrated is because people play Zebstrika the wrong way (IMHO). People, like you, assume that Zebstrika is a special sweeper, when it honestly works out better as a physical sweeper instead. My moveset with Zebstrika is Swagger, Wild Charge, Flame Charge, and Protect. Since we all know that Zebstrika's defenses are horrible, swagger isn't too much of a issue. Also, you can use protect to get in a confusion hit or two. This with a life orb and a physically-promoting nature can work wonders.

No one uses Special Zebstrika ._. the only special move to even consider running is volt switch for momentum. Zeb gets killed by prio, is outsped by a ton of the metagame, and is weak as heck. Sure it gets flame charge, but it's weak as heck. And its walled by so much, any dragon, celebi, jirachi, etc. Its in the trash pit of NU for a reason.

 

[UbersSuck20]

Zebstrika. I once took out a guy's Scizor and then proceeded to sweep his entire team afterwards.

Zebstrika is so frail even Bullet Punch does a number on it. (~40-50%, too lazy to do the calcs now)

 

[Agonist]

252+ Atk Choice Band Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Zebstrika: 117-138 (40.06 - 47.26%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

252 SpA Life Orb Zebstrika Overheat vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Scizor: 681-806 (198.54 - 234.98%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Of course, throw in LO recoil, entry hazards, and the fact that there are a plethora of other priority users, it's more likely that the guy above had a shitty opponent.

 

[jesusfreak94]

No one uses Special Zebstrika ._. the only special move to even consider running is volt switch for momentum. Zeb gets killed by prio, is outsped by a ton of the metagame, and is weak as heck. Sure it gets flame charge, but it's weak as heck. And its walled by so much, any dragon, celebi, jirachi, etc. Its in the trash pit of NU for a reason.

Woah woah waoh, time out.

First of all, everyone uses special Zebstrika. It's literally the only set worth using. I'm not sure where you're getting that its only good special attack is Volt Switch when it gets excellent coverage between Electric STAB, Overheat, and HP Grass. Physical Zebstrika is completely terrible, especially seeing as how your best coverage moves are Return, Double Kick, and Flame Charge.

Zebstrika is no more priority weak than many common OU Pokemon. Even Adamant CB Breloom's Technician Mach Punch can't OHKO it from full health. Terrakion has more priority problems than Zebstrika does. Zebstrika is also not outsped by a ton of the metagame. Seriously, if there's one thing that's actually great about Zebstrika, it's its speed stat. It outspeeds every unboosted Pokemon in OU besides Alakazam, Dugtrio, and Jolteon.

Also, NU is not a "trash pit," it's a great balanced metagame. Up until March when Ubers had a sudden surge in popularity, NU was the third most popular balanced metagame out there (even now it's just barely behind Ubers).

As for Zebstrika in OU, it's not so much that it's underrated, just that it's plain bad. Special sets are the only remotely good ones, but that low base 80 SpA stat really weighs it down. Even if it manages to get a LightningRod boost, Zebstrika is still a tiny bit weaker than Thundurus-T, and the extra speed isn't that much of an advantage when Thundurus-T gets Agility (Zebstrika does too, but it's not really helping him outspeed anything that Thundurus-T wouldn't already beat at +2). Even as low as RU, I'd rather just use Manectric. It may be slower, but it still has a great speed stat itself, as well as a good deal more power, Switcheroo for Choice sets, and the option of using Flamethrower over Overheat on non-Choice sets.

Now, I would say that Zebstrika is a bit underrated in NU, although its usage has actually been on the rise lately since it makes a great check now to some of the new drop-downs. Zebstrika is one of the few Pokemon that can outspeed Scolipede without a Choice Scarf, and it easily OHKOs with Overheat. It also makes a decent check to Jynx, again OHKOing with Overheat. Another cool thing about Zebstrika is that it makes such a great Choice Scarf user due to its naturally high speed, letting it run a Modest nature and still beat positive nature base 100s. This includes the popular new Scarf Primeape, which Zebstrika can bring down if it comes in after Primeape uses Close Combat or if Primape has already taken ~40% damage, as well as the occasional Scarf Jynx.

 

[UbersSuck20]

Woah woah waoh, time out.

First of all, everyone uses special Zebstrika. It's literally the only set worth using. I'm not sure where you're getting that its only good special attack is Volt Switch when it gets excellent coverage between Electric STAB, Overheat, and HP Grass. Physical Zebstrika is completely terrible, especially seeing as how your best coverage moves are Return, Double Kick, and Flame Charge.

Wouldn't be a specially based mixed attacker Zebstrika be better? You could try a set like this:
Zebstrika @ Life Orb
Trait: Lightningrod
EVs: 16 Atk / 240 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature(+Spe, -Def)
- Volt Switch / Thunderbolt
- Wild Charge
- Overheat
- Hidden Power Grass

With those evs zebstrika can 2hko support Gardevoir with Wild Charge.

Zebstrika is no more priority weak than many common OU Pokemon. Even Adamant CB Breloom's Technician Mach Punch can't OHKO it from full health. Terrakion has more priority problems than Zebstrika does. Zebstrika is also not outsped by a ton of the metagame. Seriously, if there's one thing that's actually great about Zebstrika, it's its speed stat. It outspeeds every unboosted Pokemon in OU besides Alakazam, Dugtrio, and Jolteon.

Terrakion's bulk: 91 / 90 / 90
Zebstrika's bulk: 75 / 63 / 63
Terrakion can take a priority move in a pinch, unlike Zebstrika. The zebra might resist Bullet Punch, but it gets raped by CB Breloom after stealth rock damage. And Choice Scarfers are everywhere.

Now, I would say that Zebstrika is a bit underrated in NU, although its usage has actually been on the rise lately since it makes a great check now to some of the new drop-downs. Zebstrika is one of the few Pokemon that can outspeed Scolipede without a Choice Scarf, and it easily OHKOs with Overheat. It also makes a decent check to Jynx, again OHKOing with Overheat. Another cool thing about Zebstrika is that it makes such a great Choice Scarf user due to its naturally high speed, letting it run a Modest nature and still beat positive nature base 100s. This includes the popular new Scarf Primeape, which Zebstrika can bring down if it comes in after Primeape uses Close Combat or if Primape has already taken ~40% damage, as well as the occasional Scarf Jynx.

Zebstrika is already ridiculously fast so no need to use a Choice Scarf set.

I don't really post sets for UU. For OU? That's the reason I love this thread!

Has anyone tried a specially bulky Latios set? I find those to be very effective against many of its counters.

Specially bulky Latios? Haha. Latias does that better.

 

[jesusfreak94]

Wouldn't be a specially based mixed attacker Zebstrika be better? You could try a set like this:
Zebstrika @ Life Orb
Trait: Lightningrod
EVs: 16 Atk / 240 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature(+Spe, -Def)
- Volt Switch / Thunderbolt
- Wild Charge
- Overheat
- Hidden Power Grass

With those evs zebstrika can 2hko support Gardevoir with Wild Charge.

Not really. You're giving up either the momentum-grabbing utility of Volt Switch or your most powerful reliable special STAB move all just so you can 2HKO support Gardevoir, which is already a rare set as it is (not to mention that the recent drops have cause a pretty substantial drop in formerly popular Psychic types). That's also assuming you don't get burned, since Gardevoir can take a Wild Charge, burn you with Will-O-Wisp, and then stall you from there with Wish and Protect. What else exactly are you hitting with Wild Charge?

Terrakion's bulk: 91 / 90 / 90
Zebstrika's bulk: 75 / 63 / 63
Terrakion can take a priority move in a pinch, unlike Zebstrika.

Defensive base stats matter little when you're weak to the moves in question. The two most common priority moves are Scizor's Bullet Punch and Breloom's Mach Punch, both of which do more damage to Terrakion than Zebstrika if not outright OHKOing (and yes, Breloom's Mach Punch is more popular than Dragonite's Extremespeed when you factor in how often they actually use the move). There's also Infernape and Conkeldurr's Mach Punch, which both do more damage to Terrakion than Zebstrika, and you could even go as far down as Metagross's Bullet Punch. The only priority moves that Terrakion has an advantage on are Dragonite's Extremespeed, Toxicroak's Sucker Punch (needs an Adamant nature and a Life Orb to guarantee at least 50% damage on Zebstrika), Lucario's Extremespeed (fails to OHKO, takes tons of damage from Thunderbolt and is OHKOd by Overheat), Terrakion's Quick Attack (lol), and Mamoswine's Ice Shard (needs a CB to guarantee at least 50%).

So the most common priority attacks (plus several less common ones) do more damage to Terrakion than Zebstrika (with Terrakion being the only one getting OHKOd by any of them), and of the ones that don't only Lucario's and Dragonite's Extremespeed can do a lot of damage, and of those two only Dragonite is really "safe" against Zebstrika. So yes, I'd say that Terrakion is more priority weak.

The zebra might resist Bullet Punch, but it gets raped by CB Breloom after stealth rock damage.

I only used CB Breloom as an example. In reality, Choice Band is very rare on Breloom (only 4% ran it last month), so it's hardly anything to worry about. Without CB or Fighting Gem (good item, but also rare), Breloom doesn't have a shot at OHKOing Zebstrika with Mach Punch even after 2 layers of Spikes.

And Choice Scarfers are everywhere.

Yes, I know Choice Scarf users are popular, but my point was that if you're going to criticize a Pokemon like Zebstrika, the last reason you should use is its incredible base 116 speed stat. If anything, that's something to brag about.

Zebstrika is already ridiculously fast so no need to use a Choice Scarf set.

Zebstrika is not fast enough on its own to beat opposing Choice Scarf users and weather sweepers in NU. With a Choice Scarf, it outspeeds pretty much every common Scarf user in NU besides Timid Electabuzz (Scarf Electabuzz tend to be Modest anyway), as well as weather sweepers like Rain Dance Ludicolo. Again, with a base 116 speed stat, it can also afford to run a Modest nature for the extra power and still outspeed Pokemon like Scarf Charizard. Not to mention you also beat things like Shell Smash Gorebyss.

 

[Dragonicwari]

Terrakion can take a priority move in a pinch, unlike Zebstrika. The zebra might resist Bullet Punch, but it gets raped by CB Breloom after stealth rock damage. And Choice Scarfers are everywhere.

Except more often than not Terrakikn can't? Most priority moves hit Terrakion for SE damage, which means it looks like it's def is halved in comparison. Meanwhile Zebstrika is either taking these hits neutrally or resisting them, so the bulk Terrakion has over Zebstrika is kind of neutralized by it's typing.

Ignoring that I think Zeb is terrible in uu and above unless you have absolutely perfect prediction and every opponent you face is running electric moves.... Even then I don't think it's that good

Ninja'd, pretty badly

 

[Sparkbeat]

I've never seen Special Zeb on the ladder so that one's on me. And I meant that Zebstrika was in the trash pit, as in bottom, of the NU tier since it's outclassed. Not that NU was a trash pit.

Pawniard is pretty underrated in LC. It handles Choice locked Snover well after its locked into Blizzard or Giga Drain with Pursuit, can finish things like LO Sand Rush Drilbur off with a Sucker Punch, can get an SD to sweep, and Iron Head hits mienfoo well on the switch, as well as murkrow and others. All in all, a Pokemon that can cause havoc with Pursuit and Sucker Punch, hit switch-ins hard with Iron Head, and can sweep with an SD boost.

 

[jesusfreak94]

Even in the context of NU usage, its not exactly at the bottom. If NU had a usage cutoff like the other tiers (about 3.41%), Zebstrika would have made it. Its only real competition as a fast Electric type is Raichu and Electabuzz, and it's used more than either of them. It gets Overheat for coverage as an advantage over either of them (because Focus Blast is a pretty bad move to rely on for coverage), it gets Lightningrod over Electabuzz, and it has enough speed to run a Modest nature and still be both a little more powerful and faster than a Timid Raichu. Plus, like I said earlier, he's starting to enjoy a bit more usage since NU got the new drop-downs.