Underrated Pokemon

[Eaglehawk]

I think dw swoobat Is underrated it is capable off Swyping whole teams with the simple ability

Swoobat does jack **** in OU. 77 Special Attack is simply not enough, and it has no answer to priority, making it total Scizor bait.

Eh, Not really true.

Ubers is right about one thing: Swoobat doesn't have immediate power. Granted it has one flipping good ability in the form of Simple, which essentially turns its Calm Mind into a Nasty Plot/Amnesia combo, it needs a ridiculous amount of team support to give it the time and the opportunity to set up. After a Calm Mind, Swoobat has 506 Special Attack.

That's a lot of jack****, isn't it?

Swoobat@Life Orb
Simple/Timid
4 HP/252 Sp. Att./252 Spe
- Calm Mind
- Stored Power
- Hidden Power Fire
- A
Here are some calcs regarding the amount of damage it can put out:
- 252SpAtk Life Orb +2 Swoobat (Neutral) Hidden Power (Fire) vs 252HP/0188SpDef Leftovers Ferrothorn (Neutral): 119% - 140% (420 - 496 HP). Guaranteed OHKO.

- 252SpAtk Life Orb +2 Swoobat (Neutral) Hidden Power (Fire) vs 252HP/252SpDef Leftovers Jirachi (+SpDef): 50% - 58% (202 - 238 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.

- 252SpAtk Life Orb +2 Swoobat (Neutral) Air Slash vs 252HP/232SpDef Leftovers Celebi (+SpDef): 81% - 96% (330 - 390 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.

- 252SpAtk Life Orb +2 Swoobat (Neutral) Stored Power vs 248HP/232SpDef Leftovers Levitate Rotom (+SpDef): 68% - 81% (208 - 247 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.

- 252SpAtk Life Orb +4 Swoobat (Neutral) Stored Power vs 252HP/0SpDef Leftovers Blissey (Neutral): 87% - 102% (624 - 735 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO. 18% chance to OHKO.

- 252SpAtk Life Orb +2 Swoobat (Neutral) Stored Power vs 252HP/224SpDef Leftovers Water Absorb Jellicent (+SpDef): 52% - 62% (214 - 253 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.

As you can see, after a Calm Mind boost, Swoobat can 2HKO most of the the tier's most prevalent Special Walls bar Blissey (which is a OHKO after CMs with Hazards support). With that kind of power and a speed of 114, it can easily sweep teams with ease.

I'm not advocating building a team around Swoobat, because it is extremely outclassed as a Psychic-type sweeper. I'm just proving that Swoobat is certainly viable in OU with the right team support.

It think one underrated pokemon personally is Lanturn, its only weakness is grass and ground, but the good thing is that you can use water attacks against ground. isn't the strongest water pokemon, but you can have a good moveset with it.

Lanturn is an interesting case. It can run a very strong tank set with it that can sponge hits while at the same time keeping the offensive momentum going. However, it's biggest competitor is Rotom-W, which has the same typing but has a Ground immunity. Granted that Lanturn can chug down Volt-Turn cores with Volt Absorb, a lot of the things it does can be done better by Rotom-W. Volt Switching, offensive pressure, and providing status can all be done by Rotom-W in a more efficient manner. However, Lanturn does have Heal Bell, which is very useful if your team suffers heavily from Status, especially Burns or Paralysis, though I'm not too sure that advantage can evenly weigh out Rotom-W's advantages in a general sense. So it does have an extremely small niche as a Rotom-W replacement if your team hates stati with a burning passion.

Although currently underused, I'm predicting that Cresselia may see a rise in usage due to the nerfs to Rain and Offense teams. Cresselia is a flipping good wall/pivot for offensive teams that can sit there and tank hits for days while still providing offensive pressure.

Cresselia@Leftovers
Levitate/Bold
252 HP/196 Def/60 Sp. Att.
- Moonlight
- Thunder Wave/Lunar Dance
- Psychic
- Ice Beam

Literally, this is the **** under the sun. Moonlight gives it strong recovery under sun (67% under sun iirc). Thunder Wave slows down C-Scarfers and Lunar Dance literally gives you an "extra sweeper", completely healing a weak sweeper to full health. The other two moves shuts down most of the Standard offense in OU. Psychic kills Fighting type such as Kelds or Teriyaki and Ice Beam kills Dargons such as Chomptons and Dragoknight.

 

[UbersSuck20]

Eh, Not really true.

Ubers is right about one thing: Swoobat doesn't have immediate power. Granted it has one flipping good ability in the form of Simple, which essentially turns its Calm Mind into a Nasty Plot/Amnesia combo, it needs a ridiculous amount of team support to give it the time and the opportunity to set up. After a Calm Mind, Swoobat has 506 Special Attack.

That's a lot of jack****, isn't it?

Swoobat@Life Orb
Simple/Timid
4 HP/252 Sp. Att./252 Spe
- Calm Mind
- Stored Power
- Hidden Power Fire
- A
Here are some calcs regarding the amount of damage it can put out:
- 252SpAtk Life Orb +2 Swoobat (Neutral) Hidden Power (Fire) vs 252HP/0188SpDef Leftovers Ferrothorn (Neutral): 119% - 140% (420 - 496 HP). Guaranteed OHKO.

- 252SpAtk Life Orb +2 Swoobat (Neutral) Hidden Power (Fire) vs 252HP/252SpDef Leftovers Jirachi (+SpDef): 50% - 58% (202 - 238 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.

- 252SpAtk Life Orb +2 Swoobat (Neutral) Air Slash vs 252HP/232SpDef Leftovers Celebi (+SpDef): 81% - 96% (330 - 390 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.

- 252SpAtk Life Orb +2 Swoobat (Neutral) Stored Power vs 248HP/232SpDef Leftovers Levitate Rotom (+SpDef): 68% - 81% (208 - 247 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.

- 252SpAtk Life Orb +4 Swoobat (Neutral) Stored Power vs 252HP/0SpDef Leftovers Blissey (Neutral): 87% - 102% (624 - 735 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO. 18% chance to OHKO.

- 252SpAtk Life Orb +2 Swoobat (Neutral) Stored Power vs 252HP/224SpDef Leftovers Water Absorb Jellicent (+SpDef): 52% - 62% (214 - 253 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.

As you can see, after a Calm Mind boost, Swoobat can 2HKO most of the the tier's most prevalent Special Walls bar Blissey (which is a OHKO after CMs with Hazards support). With that kind of power and a speed of 114, it can easily sweep teams with ease.

I'm advocating building a team around Swoobat, because it is extremely outclassed as a Psychic-type sweeper. I'm just proving that Swoobat is certainly viable in OU with the right team support.

Who's gonna let Swoobat set up a Calm Mind, anyway? With that pitiful bulk, it has to use a Focus Sash. Swoobat is not good in OU because:
- Latios doesn't care because Psyshock hits Swoobat's amazing 55 base Defense stat. He takes nothing from +2 *insert move here*.
- Terrakion is not OHKOed by +0 Psychic and can retaliate with Stone Edge, and Scarf Terrakion doesn't give a **** if Swoobat used Calm Mind. Of course, we are assuming Stone Miss hits.
- Starmie is faster by one point(lolololol).
- Alakazam, Jolteon and Weavile are faster and can smash the thing with their STAB moves, with the latter also having access to Pursuit. (I know Weavile is not very common but I feel the need to mention it because it's my favorite Pokemon.)
- Weak to Stealth Rock.
- If using Stored Power, then it has to use Calm Mind as soon as possible, and with that bulk... yeah.
- Many other factors.
- Did I mention it's Scizor bait?

If I really, really wanted to use a Stored Power sweeper, then I would rather go with Sigilyph, because of Magic Guard. Swoobat is just no.

 

[jesusfreak94]

And all this is underlined by the fact that the guy never said anything about using Swoobat in OU.

 

[#TWERKTEAM]

^Jynx suffers from the "Hydreigon syndrome". She's just too slow. She also lacks priority moves. At least Breloom has Mach Punch.
Miltank.... There are just way too many Fighting-types.
I agree with Mandibuzz.


ParaShuffler Dragonite can use Flamethrower and have some of its teammates use Thunder Wave.

Are you a moron? Jynx is bad because it's SR weak, has paper defenses, and has no good resists. Hydreigon can literally demolish teams when behind a sub.

 

[UbersSuck20]

Hydreigon syndrome means you're too slow to sweep. I know Hydreigon is good and all, but it really wishes it had Garchomp-like speed. Some people think Hydreigon is the Electivire of this gen(Personally, I think Chandelure is, until the day it gets Shadow Tag).

 

[OceanicLanturn]

I've tried using Lanturn before on an OU Sand team, and it forms a pretty good core with Hippowdon. While it may not have Rotom-W's Levitate, it still has Volt Absorb which puts a stop to the rarer Scarf Rotom-W. Lanturn might not be the best physically defensively, but it can still sponge a Chompster's Outrage. Though it's power is quite... Weak. Nonetheless, I find that it is a good wall.

I think Lickilicky in NU is a bit underrated. When partnered with a Scolipede and Misdteavous/Lampent, it can phase foes away with Dragon Tail and stack up hazard damage. It also has Wish and Heal Bell to support the team. It works great on a stall team.

 

[jireh the provider]

For me, I'd say Cinccino is currently underrated ever since she has been banned from NU. I mean, if her Skill link ability made her broken and over-centralizing in NU, does her new ability and standard moveset did no fit for the higher tiers and RU itself?

 

[jesusfreak94]

Cinccino was not banned from NU, it just received enough usage in RU to rise a tier. In fact, it was tested months ago and found not broken.

 

[UbersSuck20]

For me, I'd say Cinccino is currently underrated ever since she has been banned from NU. I mean, if her Skill link ability made her broken and over-centralizing in NU, does her new ability and standard moveset did no fit for the higher tiers and RU itself?

Cinccino is good in UU. When will people finally come to the realization that Cinccino's better than lolAmbipom? As for OU, though, it fails in a tier filled with Skarmory, Ferrothorn, Jirachi, and fighting-types.

 

[jireh the provider]

Cinccino is good in UU. When will people finally come to the realization that Cinccino's better than "lol" Ambipom? As for OU, though, it fails in a tier filled with Skarmory, Ferrothorn, Jirachi, and fighting-types.

When you mentioned Ambipom as a joke, I'd say those were my thoughts. I always compared Cinccino [before getting skill link] to Ambipom as Normal type Technician Ability holders: Obviously, Cinccino's multi attack variety fits my taste better than the Monkey's. Even OU, I find Cinccino to be viable. I mean ... her 115 speed (despite the 95 attack) is too hard for me to ignore compared to terrakion's 110th below-like speed.

But from the way I've seen you as a knowledgable and observant critic, I've tried using my Jolly Choice Scarf/Life Orb Cinccino in OU [late game cleaner or revenge killer depending on the situation]. While I know what she is troubled [I'll get this straight at you. I KNOW SHE'S RARELY VIABLE IN OU! I know her weaknesses well enough], I specifically use her for certain Pokemon and their certain sets. Most of the pokemon I list here, I use her to counter in OU are the ones I also called jerkasses.



Her set is like this:
Nature: Jolly / Adamant
EVs: 252 on both Attack and Speed, 4 for HP [upping any defense is pointless]
Items: Choice Scarf / Life Orb / Choice Band / Expert Belt / Kings Rock(situational)
Movesets:
-Tail Slap
-Rock Blast
-Bullet Seed
-U-turn / Thunder Wave (situational)

I don't have to tell you again its role (a revenge killer/late game cleaner), but I'll tell you about the situational moves and items.

Items:

King's Rock: this is rather an Interesting tool to play with. Both Cinccino and Cloyster are potential Users of this Gimmick. I'm sure you know how irritating Jirachi's Paraflinch strategy can do to heatran himself despite the resistance (be honest and tell me that you tried using a Heatran against an opposing jirachi. Only to be flinched to death in the end with the wish maker's paraflinch set at one time). This time, Cinccino can fulfill that Flinching strategy: albeit in a different way. King's rock has a chance to flinch the enemy by about 30%? we know that most attacks only act one. But Imagine any multi hitting move used by a pokemon like Cinccino used against you. And after 5 attacks, you got flinched. That is rather scary to find out. If one of the 5 attacks activated the flinch effect [akin to Skill link], its like having the same kind of situation with Jirachi Paraflinch tactic [via Paralysis + Iron head]. But of course, this set may back fire if Rock blast or Tail slap misses no thanks to the accuracy of 85 + this is more on gimmicky luck.

See this video as to how A kings Rock Cinccino could do to an enemy. Note. The user was at a crisis against Cinccino in the near end of the battle; that the Player had to rely on luck to escape the Flinching Effects of Kings Rock + Tail Slap. Note this battle is a Mixed tier

Thunder Wave: This time, T-wave is for the Life Orb / Expert Belt variant only. What I would use this is for baiting an upcoming Choice Scarfed Pokemon / Pokes with 116 speed and above and cut the speed they heavily rely on to sweep. Combine it with the item above, you get yourself a lesser Jirachi tactic: Paraflinch. But of course, it's gimmicky and situational. Or better yet, use this to surprise enemy sweepers.



Potential victims for Cinccino to Kill (meaning, the only pokemon where she can do something to them).

I. TERRAKION THE JERKASS BULL (apologies for the exaggeration but HE is praised too much like Scizor) - killed via Bullet Seed
II. Volcarona - killed via Rock Blast
III. Dragonite [Multiscale variant] - killed via Rock Blast
IV. Gastrodon - killed via Bullet Seed
V. Keldeo (both formes) - killed via Bullet Seed
VI. Thundurus Therian - killed via Rock Blast
VII. Politoed (sort of theoretical) - killed via Bullet Seed
VIII. Ninetales - killed via Rock Blast
IX. Tyranitar - killed via Bullet Seed
X. Abomasnow/ OBAMASNOW (sorry I can't resist saying that. But countering him for me is theoretical due to its Ice shard) - killed via Rock Blast
XI. Hippowdon (again, theoretical thanks to its defensive capabilities) - killed via Bullet Seed
XII. Kyurem Black (theoretical no thanks to its nasty bulk) - killed via Rock Blast
XIII. Gyarados - killed via Rock Blast (the one w/o intimidate)
XIV. Cloyster (If and only if It didn't set up shell smash) - killed via Rock Blast and Bullet Seed

The rest of the other OU pokemon, Cinccino could do nothing to them at all. (even my vendetta, Scizor Himself. Sorry Scizor Fans. I only respect him for the battle. But right now, he is OU#1 Jerkass for me)

So if it is okay, could you give me a calculation/statistics of the damage that a Cinccino could do to the following Pokes Above? I've experimented using her in OU for a bit. Only it just left me confused about the Statistic

Spoiler: Mini trivia

[According to a certain research magazine, Playing the metagame of Pokemon makes you a better statistics student (advanced college math in other terms). But for me, I terribly suck at the advanced maths and Calculus. "But I'm a Game Designer..." said to myself]

 

[OceanicLanturn]

Cinccino has literally nothing against steels though, barring Wake-Up-Slap, which is pretty weak in power. Steels are far from rare in OU. Also, another major problem for Cinccino is its total frailness. It's weak to Mach Punch and stuff like CB Scizor's Bullet Punch. 95 attack isn't the best for OU anyways. And Ferrothorn and heatran, ferrothorn especially, stops Cinccino's sweep immediately.

Cinccino's Rock Blast with max atk and adamant only 4HKOs (5 hits). Using Rock Blast again a 0Def 252 HP Heatran only 3HKOs. Ferrothorn is the biggest problem, since nothing can hit it. Tail Slap against 0 Def/252 HP Ferro 5HKOs. A few steels resist the Grass/Normal/Rock Combo. The biggest one is probably Ferrothorn. Scarf Rachi is also something.

Also, on the Pokemon you listed...

vs Terrakion
252Atk Life Orb Cinccino (+Atk) Bullet Seed vs 4HP/0Def Terrakion (Neutral): 108% - 126% (350 - 410 HP). Guaranteed OHKO.

vs Volcarona: Too obvious lol

vs Dragonite
252Atk Life Orb Cinccino (+Atk) Rock Blast vs 4HP/0Def Multiscale Dragonite (Neutral): 49% - 61% (160 - 200 HP). Guaranteed 3HKO. 31% chance to 2HKO. -> KO with Rocks due to Multiscale being broken

vs Gastrodon: Again, too obvious lol

vs Keldeo
252Atk Life Orb Cinccino (+Atk) Bullet Seed vs 4HP/0Def Keldeo (Neutral): 108% - 126% (350 - 410 HP). Guaranteed OHKO.

vs Thundurus-T
252Atk Life Orb Cinccino (+Atk) Rock Blast vs 4HP/0Def Volt Absorb Thundurus Therian (Neutral): 140% - 166% (420 - 500 HP). Guaranteed OHKO.

vs Politoed
Attacking Variant
252Atk Life Orb Cinccino (+Atk) Bullet Seed vs 252HP/0Def Water Absorb Politoed (Neutral): 104% - 125% (400 - 480 HP). Guaranteed OHKO.

Physically Defensive Variant
252Atk Life Orb Cinccino (+Atk) Bullet Seed vs 252HP/252Def Leftovers Water Absorb Politoed (+Def): 72% - 85% (280 - 330 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.

It can beat attacking variants, but not Physically defensive variants, which can attack Cinccino.

vs Ninetales
252Atk Life Orb Cinccino (+Atk) Rock Blast vs 252HP/120Def Leftovers Flash Fire Ninetales (+Def): 91% - 111% (320 - 390 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO. 57% chance to OHKO.

Guaranteed KO after Rocks.

vs T-tard
252Atk Life Orb Cinccino (+Atk) Bullet Seed vs 252HP/0Def Leftovers Tyranitar (+Def): 66% - 79% (270 - 320 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.
252Atk Life Orb Cinccino (+Atk) Bullet Seed vs 180HP/0Def Tyranitar (Neutral): 75% - 93% (290 - 360 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.

vs Abo
252Atk Life Orb Cinccino (+Atk) Rock Blast vs 252HP/172Def Leftovers Soundproof Abomasnow (Neutral): 85% - 104% (330 - 400 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO. 22% chance to OHKO.
Guaranteed KO after rocks.

Lol. Not gonna do the rest cause I'm sooooo tired.

Here's the calc if you want.

http://kalashnikov.pokecenter.ru/damage/

 

[Mr. Timn]

i actually think cinccino is overrated because when it first went to ru it got used way more than i think it needed too. please don't get me wrong, i do like cinccino and think it is at home in ru, but i don't think it is a top 10 pokemon like it has been for a while, especially not when it just rose into ru not to long ago.

 

[Roy9]

Floatzel.
In rain with Swift Swim it can outspeed A LOT, so mostly it strikes first, with a Focus Sash it can bring out at least 1 hit, mostly 3 hits.

 

[UbersSuck20]

252 Atk Life Orb Skill Link Cinccino Rock Blast (5 hits) vs. 224 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 85-105 (25.99 - 32.11%) -- possible 4HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Skill Link Cinccino Rock Blast (5 hits) vs. 224 HP / 32 Def Skarmory: 110-130 (33.63 - 39.75%) -- 14.43% chance to 3HKO

252 Atk Life Orb Skill Link Cinccino Tail Slap (5 hits) vs. 252 HP / 88+ Def Ferrothorn: 80-90 (22.72 - 25.56%) -- possible 5HKO (And Cinccino takes 60% damage from Iron Barbs)

252 Atk Life Orb Skill Link Cinccino Rock Blast (5 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Forretress: 85-105 (24.01 - 29.66%) -- possible 4HKO

252 Atk Life Orb Skill Link Cinccino Tail Slap (5 hits) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Jirachi: 105-130 (25.99 - 32.17%) -- possible 4HKO

Basically, the inability of hitting steels for solid damage makes Cinccino unusable in OU.

And I'd like to point out that no matter the tier Cinccino must always be Jolly.
^Floatzel is not good. While it has decent attacking stats and great Speed, his crappy defenses send him in the depths of NU.

 

[Roy9]

252 Atk Life Orb Skill Link Cinccino Rock Blast (5 hits) vs. 224 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 85-105 (25.99 - 32.11%) -- possible 4HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Skill Link Cinccino Rock Blast (5 hits) vs. 224 HP / 32 Def Skarmory: 110-130 (33.63 - 39.75%) -- 14.43% chance to 3HKO

252 Atk Life Orb Skill Link Cinccino Tail Slap (5 hits) vs. 252 HP / 88+ Def Ferrothorn: 80-90 (22.72 - 25.56%) -- possible 5HKO (And Cinccino takes 60% damage from Iron Barbs)

252 Atk Life Orb Skill Link Cinccino Rock Blast (5 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Forretress: 85-105 (24.01 - 29.66%) -- possible 4HKO

252 Atk Life Orb Skill Link Cinccino Tail Slap (5 hits) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Jirachi: 105-130 (25.99 - 32.17%) -- possible 4HKO

Basically, the inability of hitting steels for solid damage makes Cinccino unusable in OU.

And I'd like to point out that no matter the tier Cinccino must always be Jolly.
^Floatzel is not good. While it has decent attacking stats and great Speed, his crappy defenses send him in the depths of NU.

You're right, Floatzel isn't the best, but it's able to KO a lot! And because his crappy defenses I use a Focus Sash.

 

[jireh the provider]

252 Atk Life Orb Skill Link Cinccino Rock Blast (5 hits) vs. 224 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 85-105 (25.99 - 32.11%) -- possible 4HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Skill Link Cinccino Rock Blast (5 hits) vs. 224 HP / 32 Def Skarmory: 110-130 (33.63 - 39.75%) -- 14.43% chance to 3HKO

252 Atk Life Orb Skill Link Cinccino Tail Slap (5 hits) vs. 252 HP / 88+ Def Ferrothorn: 80-90 (22.72 - 25.56%) -- possible 5HKO (And Cinccino takes 60% damage from Iron Barbs)

252 Atk Life Orb Skill Link Cinccino Rock Blast (5 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Forretress: 85-105 (24.01 - 29.66%) -- possible 4HKO

252 Atk Life Orb Skill Link Cinccino Tail Slap (5 hits) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Jirachi: 105-130 (25.99 - 32.17%) -- possible 4HKO

Basically, the inability of hitting steels for solid damage makes Cinccino unusable in OU.

And I'd like to point out that no matter the tier Cinccino must always be Jolly.

Why would I be using a Cinccino against a steel type? Its too obvious she could do nothing to them.

But It makes me wonder on how much Tail Slap would do to these certain pokemon that are neutral to it? you don't need to do the ones resistant since I won't use her against a Ferrothorn / Foretress / Scizor / Jirachi / Metagross / Lucario / (Rare) Bronzong / any fast or very bulky pokemon at all.

Legend: "*" - (when it switches in only)

I. Celebi
II. Venusaur
III. Jolteon *
IV. Alakazam *
V. Espeon
VI. Haxorus

 

[Dragonicwari]

I've been running with that Hippowdon swag lately and I've found that thanks to it's amazing bulk and recovery, unless you have a serious mispredict/hax occur it's almost a guaranteed won weather war

 

[Sparkbeat]

I've been running with that Hippowdon swag lately and I've found that thanks to it's amazing bulk and recovery, unless you have a serious mispredict/hax occur it's almost a guaranteed won weather war

Yeah Hippowdon's a great wall. I've found it works really well with Celebi, so Celebi can take Specs Hydro Pumps, while Hippo can beat Scizor and TTar for Celebi.

 

[Agonist]

How exactly does Hippowdon beat Scizor? Scizor can just set up Swords on it, Roost off EQ, then destroy it with a boosted Bullet Punch/Bug Bite.

 

[TanBun]

seel is quite underrated he is a good one