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Unions needed, past their prime or good on burgers?

Malanu

Est sularus oth mith
So I am a UAW member with 18 years seniority. I became a Journeyman Toolmaker four years after that. I make really good money (over $33 an hour), I have one of the best medical plans available to hourly worker, and fantastic benefits (one week of paid time off and almost 4 weeks of vacation time to date).

To me, I am very well paid for my services, well taken care of with my benefits. I am thankful for the job I have even when I am complaining about what a Jackhole my boss is.

Now, What I would like to discuss is, has the Union out lived its usefulness?

Me, I don't think so. I don't because corporations post billions in dollars in profits every year . CEO's & top executives earn multimillion dollar salaries per year (some so big they would fund an entire production plants operational cost for an entire year!), yet ask workers to take pay cuts

I believe unions keep the hourly wages at a place where the working man can afford to live. I do know there is abuses within our ranks, I am ashamed of that.

Anyway, whats your take? Be civil, but state your case how you see it.
 

legendarypokemonmaster

Well-Known Member
I believe unions keep the hourly wages at a place where the working man can afford to live. I do know there is abuses within our ranks, I am ashamed of that.
Possibly, but the reason we are losing so many jobs is because of all the wages and rights we have protested for and earned in the US. Other countries like China don't have those same standards and are much cheaper to employ workers to do the same thing. It is so much cheaper to have people working for you in China that it is less expensive to ship stuff there, have them manufacture it, and ship it back, than it is to make it here. It also sends all of our money out of the country and increases our debt to China. This is a major problem, and I'm not saying we should get rid of unions, but we should do something about it.
 

Malanu

Est sularus oth mith
Yeah the Unions were against NAFTA back in the day. Sending our work to China/India is a symptom of corporate greed if you ask me. With us sending our country's industrial base to the lowest bidder has a consequence we haven't run into yet. If we seriously get into a war, will China/Mexico/Germany/Japan keep making the sprocket that makes our M-1 tanks go boom for us? Made in America used to mean just that, now... not so much. I worry about this a lot.
 

7 tyranitars

Well-Known Member
when you get rid of the unions you basicly give corperations the opportunity to be even more greedy, they should stay
 

dragoniteKnight

Pose as a team
mmmmm the union my bro is forced to be in hasnt done **** for him besides take his money. to my knowledge, theyre no longer needed.
 

BigLutz

Banned
Yeah the Unions were against NAFTA back in the day. Sending our work to China/India is a symptom of corporate greed if you ask me.

Same could be said for Union Greed in trying to milk the company for every benefit possible while not giving a damn about the strength of the company.

I do agree we need to work on getting those jobs back. But we need to realize that any company or consumer, when faced with a cheaper and moderate quality product, or very expensive, high quality product, they are going for the cheaper product. That is just human nature.

Unions used to stand for making the work place safe and avoiding slave wages. That was a worthy cause, but we are a long way from those days. Now Unions seem more concerned with political power than they do the good of the worker. And yes some Unions need to realize that taking cheaper wages and less benefits will save the company and in turn save the jobs of the workers they say they champion.
 

Skiks

MUCH RESPECT
Unions of today really don't seem to help. Any time a few factory workers I know complain to the union about how they are treated all they do is tell you to make nice with your employer. They ignore the workers even with the most plausible requests they can fight for. I have yet to see a union that does more than suck money out of your check.
 

Malanu

Est sularus oth mith
Lets see...
mmmmm the union my bro is forced to be in hasnt done **** for him besides take his money. to my knowledge, theyre no longer needed.
I had the same results in the Teamsters, but I was a part time member with them.

Unions of today really don't seem to help. Any time a few factory workers I know complain to the union about how they are treated all they do is tell you to make nice with your employer. They ignore the workers even with the most plausible requests they can fight for. I have yet to see a union that does more than suck money out of your check.
Yeah the unions today are by far weaker than in years past. However I wonder, how much faster would corporate coffers swell if there weren't unions? It is not right for a company to earn billions and not pass some of that on to the people who make the product that earns that profit.
 

GhostAnime

Searching for her...
when you get rid of the unions you basicly give corperations the opportunity to be even more greedy, they should stay
And if they stay, jobs and wages drop.

The unions of today though can still be weakened enough where corporations can't take advantage of them.
 

Malanu

Est sularus oth mith
And if they stay, jobs and wages drop.

The unions of today though can still be weakened enough where corporations can't take advantage of them.
How would wages drop if unions stay Ghost? I don't understand your logic. Thanks in advance for clarifying.
 

GhostAnime

Searching for her...
Let's say a union wants higher wages. Let's say the corporation gives them those higher wages. Where do you think that money will eventually come from?
 

GhostAnime

Searching for her...
They come from the company's Billions in profit Ghost.
1) Not all companies make billions
2) Depending on the amount of workers you have in union vs workers not in unions, it is a well-proven economic phenomenon that unions are worse for outsiders.
 

Malanu

Est sularus oth mith
1) Not all companies make billions
2) Depending on the amount of workers you have in union vs workers not in unions, it is a well-proven economic phenomenon that unions are worse for outsiders.
Point one)Conceded. Unions need to negotiate within the profit structure of a business.

Please expand on your case more. How is a union worse on outsiders?

I once worked in a stamping plant earning around $8 an hour, we had some fair benefits but nothing like I have now. I was proud of working for that company, but the chance to earn a better living was only provided by being in a union.
 

kaiser soze

Reading ADWD
to be fair OP, the CEO has a much harder job that comes with a lot more risk; therefore, he deserves a larger salary if he is doing a good job. it also takes a lot of experience to become CEO, which also has to be compensated. and if you dont pay him enough he will work for someone else, possibly your competition

the teachers unions have had a very negative effect on public education in america. they enable subpar teachers to gain tenure while raising kids that cant graduate, let alone go to college. because of tenure agreements with unions, NYC teachers that have molested kids remain on payroll. I cite this as an example of unions outliving their usefulness in the US/canada/western europe/japan
 

GhostAnime

Searching for her...
Point one)Conceded. Unions need to negotiate within the profit structure of a business.

Please expand on your case more. How is a union worse on outsiders?

I once worked in a stamping plant earning around $8 an hour, we had some fair benefits but nothing like I have now. I was proud of working for that company, but the chance to earn a better living was only provided by being in a union.
Duh, you're PART of the union. I'm talking about those outside of it.

Edit: wait.
 

Malanu

Est sularus oth mith
Sure a CEO deserves salary based on his performance, I can't deny that. But I quote:
A financial benefit that is realized when the amount of revenue gained from a business activity exceeds the expenses, costs and taxes needed to sustain the activity. Any profit that is gained goes to the business's owners, who may or may not decide to spend it on the business.
So in a situation where the CEO is also the recipient of the corporations profits, is it just for him/her to be paid a salary also?

Also your point on Teachers, I often find myself wondering if they should be unionized. I'm on both sides of the argument (a Union Parent) so I have mixed feelings/opinions.

Duh, you're PART of the union. I'm talking about those outside of it.

Edit: wait.
SO how does my eaning $33 an hour as a toolmaker hurt those working for $15-$22 an hour, where I sit they hurt my livelihood and Duh, isn't a just argument.
 
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kaiser soze

Reading ADWD
Sure a CEO deserves salary based on his performance, I can't deny that. But I quote:
So in a situation where the CEO is also the recipient of the corporations profits, is it just for him/her to be paid a salary also?

usually CEOs get stock as part of their compensation package. since they want the stock to do well, this obviously gives them an incentive to do a good job (good job > higher profits > higher stock price). Most companies give ALL their employees company stock as part of their retirement packages so that everyone is a stakeholder in the company and an incentive for the company to do well. so in this case a rising tide (or stock price) raises all ships; the CEO and the assembly line worker benefit if the stock price goes up.

Profit that the firm makes often goes into stock dividends. again all the shareholders get a piece, including the workers. if not, then it gets reinvested into growing the company, not the pockets of the bigwigs

EDIT: also profits are profits. the salaries of the bigwigs is an expense, just like direct labor. Revenue - Expenses = Profits. business 101
 
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GhostAnime

Searching for her...
Okay, I guess I can't find the information outside of the economic textbook I read for some strange reason.. so I'll have to explain to the best of my abilities. I'm not too knowledgeable about labor unions in economics though, so warning.

Essentially, let's say there are two separate kind of workers. Unionized and non-unionized (or insiders and outsiders).

People tend to get the false idea that top executives get all the profits. As the person above just explained, they do not. There are plenty of dividends to be paid, debt to decrease, and money to be re-invested in the business itself.

For a large amount of companies, if unions go past actually equalizing or improving conditions to just demanding more wages more than the market can sustain, those "costs" will go down to the company and the people representing the company and in some cases, may be forced to decrease the wages in other areas (or... basically outsiders).

Seeing how this isn't information easily found, I guess it's like a misinterpretation by me; but hey I'm no labor union expert.
 
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Malanu

Est sularus oth mith
Okay, I guess I can't find the information outside of the economic textbook I read for some strange reason.. so I'll have to explain to the best of my abilities. I'm not too knowledgeable about labor unions in economics though, so warning.

Essentially, let's say there are two separate kind of workers. Unionized and non-unionized (or insiders and outsiders).

People tend to get the false idea that top executives get all the profits. As the person above just explained, they do not. There are plenty of dividends to be paid, debt to decrease, and money to be re-invested in the business itself.

For a large amount of companies, if unions go past actually equalizing or improving conditions to just demanding more wages more than the market can sustain, those "costs" will go down to the company and the people representing the company and in some cases, may be forced to decrease the wages in other areas (or... basically outsiders).

Seeing how this isn't information easily found, I guess it's like a misinterpretation by me; but hey I'm no labor union expert.
Your explanation was perfect. If a Union negotiates wages/benefits that would bankrupt a company, then that union has failed it's members.
 
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