GhostAnime
Searching for her...
Well I doubt a company would allow that to happen, but sure. If anybody's going to go (especially in the middle of this economy), it'll be the workers before the company executives.
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Unions needed, past their prime or good on burgers?
- Thread starter Malanu
- Start date
Unions are perfectly fine to be apart of, and in principle there is nothing wrong with them. Their power simply needs to be curtailed. If you doubt the amount of power unions have today, simply ask yourself a question. How easy is it for a company to become part of a union? Now, how easy is it for a company to become de-unionized? The former is very easy, the latter is ridiculously difficult. In fact it would be easier for a company to declare bankruptcy and start all over again than it would be to separate from a union.
An interesting point. Now putting the shoe on the other foot, why would a worker want a company to "quit" a union? Would it get them, better wages, safer working conditions, less discrimination, better benefits? All of these "perks" have come because of unions. I do wonder why athletes (a salaried employee) needs a union?
OMG The Detroit News ran an article on Corporate CEO's who take raises when there is financial hardships everywhere.
The biggest greedy bastich on the list was JP Morgan CEO Jamie Dimon who's 20.8 Million dollar a year raise was a 1541% increase! I gotta ask did JP have it's hand out just a few months ago begging for a loan? By comparison my 3% raise 4 years ago feels embarrassing.
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dragoniteKnight
Pose as a team
just went to the local mcdonalds(nonunion) who was looking for people, they pay more than my brothers union job, and pay for school books. in short, more benefits, more money, free books....unions are so helpful?
You organized labor bastards caused outsourcing. If you just tone down your agendas and let public conscience and federal government aid you, then that'd be great. Unskilled and semi-skilled laborers shouldn't live upper-middle class lives.
The United States owes that and more to JP Morgan.
Just because you drop out of a Union or not even join a Union, doesn't mean all of those things are going to happen to you. Some people may not like the politics involved with being in a Union. Others may feel like they do not want to give part of their paycheck to a Union as part of Union Dues. Others may feel like they do not want to risk losing their job if the Union were to go on strike, etc etc etc.
First of all I am probably in the minority of children of unwed parents in unions. SO please refrain from using slanderous names, K thnx.
Unions did not cause outsourcing, corporate greed did that.My company bought Cast iron cranks from China (they were cheaper). We manufactured them according to our procedures for every other crank we make. They had a 97% catastrophic failure rate. That's what Outsourcing can lead too. Why shouldn't the working men & women be able to live a better life? The unions have taken blue collar and gave then a better wage. So those of us (you included) who have to actually work (you know making stuff) for a living shouldn't be allowed to live the American dream? Oh and my union is mostly skilled labor.
Really? If JP was one of the banks who failed the country by over extending themselves on crap mortgages they deserve the same treatment they give common folks they gave to much money to in the first place. They deserved to loose their assets. And don't forget, The CEO got that BS 1500% pay raise, not the people doing the work to turn the company around.
You are right, They are likely to happen but are not guaranteed. True 2 hours pay a month does seem like a lot to have better wages, working conditions, and better protection against job loss, but the benefits seem to outweigh the loss in take home. But that's my experience.
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Skiks
MUCH RESPECT
There are a lot of unions that hardly do any of that and this is very true with factory worker unions these days. They don't guarantee any of this and iirc the law has already established a lot of these things. Despite unions having helped established these laws in the past this does not mean it's the same union it was back then.
I know some people like to believe unions always have your back but that isn't the case anymore. A Union is pretty useless when it seems that it tries to keep people in it out of fear of what might happen.
I know some people like to believe unions always have your back but that isn't the case anymore. A Union is pretty useless when it seems that it tries to keep people in it out of fear of what might happen.
Yeah Unions have lost quite a bit of ground over the years. It's shame too. As for the fear factor, both sides are guilty of it. I have been both a non union and a union employee, take a guess which I think is better?
Companies are going to push for the better deal, just as consumers are going to push for the better deal, that is natural and human nature. However you have to understand that Union Greed ignores this fact and continues to push for the better deal for themselves which in the end can destroy the jobs they claim to protect.
Again just because a place does or does not have a union does not mean any of those things are guaranteed. Furthermore as noted before Unions have grown to care more about themselves than the company, so in some places they are the cause of the job losses.
So then Unions are no better than the big Corperations? or the Corperate exect who gives themselves multimillion dollar raises... However how many emlpoyees gain from said greed over CEOs? $20.8 Million in one pocket or divided into multiple pockets is a better scenario? Yes the union wants a bigger slice of the pie, But I am happier to share that wealth with my brothers & sisters than see it all go into one persons pocket anyday. Your mileage may vary.
A union doesn't promise anything but a better chance to have those things. Not to mention, wouldn't you like to have those benefits? You're more likely to get them with a union than without. I worked for a stamping plant that had Union-like benifits but scaled to what was profitable to the company. I was very proud to work for that buisness.
A union doesn't promise anything but a better chance to have those things. Not to mention, wouldn't you like to have those benefits? You're more likely to get them with a union than without. I worked for a stamping plant that had Union-like benifits but scaled to what was profitable to the company. I was very proud to work for that buisness.
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Really? That may be quite shocking to many in the Union. That greater wage you claim unions provide, how many extra employees would that provide if your wages were cut even the slightest bit? How about those benefits? If they were cut back even the slightest bit how many jobs would be saved? How many layoffs prevented? How many jobs could be provided? Yes exects make alot of money but they have also worked their way up to earning that money just like anyone else and if they fail to do their job they are fired.
And at which point I would be looking for a new job. But lets also not forget that Unions are a gamble, and risk destroying the company as a whole, or lead to layoffs so that benefits could be preserved.
CSolarstorm
New spicy version
Why is it 'human nature' when companies do it, but 'greed' when unions do it?
Depends on if it is kept in country (2 non union skilled trades v me OR at roughly $2-$4 an hour in China or other sweatshop countries). I have put in a 4 years apprenticeship, and another 14 years on the job. To earn my 75K a year, Ford's new CEO got IIRC 20 Million to take the job & another 6 Mil to sign the contract. I've been here longer with a great track record for quality & efficiency.
As for the invulnerability of union workers... I canot argue. Many deserve to be fired, nothing is perfect, but which would YOU rather have, a job you can loose cause its Thursday, or the one which is really hard to loose?
Layoff's can be recalled as is happening now in the auto industry, If the union is doing what you imply, then the union isn't protecting its members.
And yet you two obviously do two different jobs which require you to have two different pay scales, I assume your boss also receives more than you do, as he has a different and harder job than you do.
I would rather have the one in which I would lose because it is Thursday as it also means I have a greater chance to get a job if I were unemployed. There is a reason why Right To Work states provide for lower unemployment.
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-m...reilly-says-unemployment-lower-right-work-st/
The Unions also nearly destroyed the auto industry, with their deals and refusal to negotiate, the reason the auto industry is in such dire straights right now can be traced back to Union Contracts.
Hey I want my non union tradesbrothers to get the same pay I do. I was lucky, I got in and was able to test into the trades. Had my previous job given me the training to be a diesetter I might/most likely would have stayed with them at much less money an hour. Actually with enough OT I can make more than he does.
That is a very valid arguement!
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-m...reilly-says-unemployment-lower-right-work-st/
You believe that falicy is you want. But with bonuses equal to entire plant orerating costs I think CEO's are just as guilty as we hourly workers. I won't say that Unions are without sin, but It takes a good many of us Union workers to equal one CEO. and how many CEOs actually build the cars that pay their salary? Oh and the blame for how the auto industry tanked fell on the CEOs putting all their eggs in SUVs. Our own CEO took the blame for that.
Your non union brothers could easily shop around for jobs to find the one that fits what they want.
It is not a fallacy, Union contracts essentially turned the auto industry into a retirement center, allowing for cushy retirement plans, wonderful health care, and overall great protection for its retired workers. The problem is that the car industries are starting in a hole each year because of these benefits for their workers, a hole that foreign auto makers do not have to start in, and as such it is much harder for them to pull out.
Ask them and many would want the job I have over a non union shop where a single mistake can get you fired.
Yes it has, but that's called job security in most circles Big. Right now the retirement rate is escalating in union shop, so Fresh blood is coming in at a 2 retires per one hire. Automation is responsable for the 2:1 ratio.
Honestly which job would you want, a factory job where you have no security, minimum pay (not minimum wage), & no health benefits, or a job making top dollar and is secure with strong benefits?
kaiser soze
Reading ADWD
yes there is greed on both sides, and I think malanu is a little too brainwashed to see whats wrong with unions. assembly-line jobs only require so much skill and require little training/education. quite a large fraction of the population is capable of working there because there are few special requirements. which means that kind of labor isnt worth that much (thats why doctors and lawyers make more). if the union keeps demanding more pay, it may be cheeper to outsource or replace you with robots. since unions stuck american auto workers between a rock and a hard place by raising costs above the natural economic levels.
I go to college in Indiana where I see plenty of plants closed or at low output thanks to the UAW. but I live in alabama, where we have been opening auto plants, and workers make above-average wages, even without a strong union presence.
unions are kind of like political parties in the sense that the organization changes. the group isnt essentially the same as it was 100 years ago or 50
I go to college in Indiana where I see plenty of plants closed or at low output thanks to the UAW. but I live in alabama, where we have been opening auto plants, and workers make above-average wages, even without a strong union presence.
unions are kind of like political parties in the sense that the organization changes. the group isnt essentially the same as it was 100 years ago or 50
OR go to school, get a degree, and get a job with more pay and benefits doing something a robot cant do? and not have to pay union dues or go on strike. sure you could be laid off, but so can anyone. just go get a new job and make yourself marketable. its your responsibility/choice to have a job, not the governments/unions/employers responsibility. those that succeed usually have that attitude