Maeder, why do you support gun control? Let's try discussing your reasons.
Does it not matter that guns are used far more often to stop crimes and save lives? Tragedy sells newspapers and they often exaggerate things. There are not any weekly shootings by lunatics and it's a big country. It's easy to find an incident of carelessness when you search millions of people.Because a gun is a weapon, it can kill and it seems every week, on average, there's a story about someone being killed because of a careless gun owner, or worse, a shooting by some lunatic.
Your beliefs would be wrong.And I adamantly believe that simply giving your wallet to a mugger gives you a better chance of surviving that trying to fight back with your own gun. Know why? Because every police officer you would ask (and even John Walsh) will tell you that.
The Jeane Dixon effect. Just seriously injured a careless poster....and it seems every week, on average, there's a story about someone being killed because of a careless gun owner, or worse, a shooting by some lunatic.
The Jeane Dixon effect refers to the tendency of the mass media to hype or exaggerate a few correct predictions by a psychic, guaranteeing that they will be remembered, while forgetting or ignoring the much more numerous incorrect predictions.
As far as "every" police officer? That would be wrong. There was a police chief a few months back that advised people to protect themselves rather than wait for the police to show up.
Gun control groups and the media are "predicting" more shootings. They then stretch and distort definitions so they can claim they were right. For example. MAIG put out a "map" of "school shootings" from the last few months. They listed suicides that occurred outside of school hours, domestic disputes that happened in the parking lot, gang fights that started elsewhere and ended in front of the school, and even listed a case of self defense.You mean this?
http://skepdic.com/dixon
I fail to see how this particular issue applies. As the article states:
The issue we're talking about does not involve a psychic - or even predictions by a political pundit if you want to stretch the point of what the Jean Dixon effect can cover - at all.
Jokes on you. I don't have any cash in my wallet and rarely carry all that much anyway.LDS, here's a test. Take out your wallet and check to see how much cash is in it. Then write down a few things you could buy with that much cash.
Tell me how I can tell which mugger will take the wallet and leave and which mugger will shoot me to prevent me from calling the cops? Tell me which mugger won't decide to go to the address listed on my driver's license later to commit a little B&E? Tell me which mugger isn't really a rapist or psycho killer checking to see how much resistance I put up before they decide to move to the next step in their sick plan?Then, ask yourself if any of those things are really worth defending in a gunfight and risking your life over.
Greed? Standing up against bullies is greed? Keeping something you worked hard for is greed? Are banks being greedy because they have guards? What's greedy is someone wanting to take something from someone else.If you're willing to defend $50 with a gun, it's nothing more than greed, plain and simple. That $50 wouldn't even scratch the surface of the hospital bills you'd need if you were injured, or the therapy your family would have to undergo if you were killed.
And yet, I've posted any number of attempted muggins where the mugger fled rather than shoot, where the victim successfully fought back and wasn't injured, where the victim won against multiple attackers, etc.If someone points a gun at you and demands your wallet, let the guy have it. I can't promise he won't he still won't shoot, but I can promise you that he will if you try to use your own gun. So using logic, the first option is much safer.
Two separate locations.Name? Date? Location? I heard the news story of the police chief who was fired for going on Facebook with guns, threatening the President, and daring him to take them.
If you are caught in a mugging despite your precautions, the safest thing to do is to comply with the mugger's requests. A mugging can turn ugly, especially if the mugger has a knife or gun. If asked to empty your bag or pockets, obey calmly. Remember: you can stop payment on credit cards and file a stolen phone report with your cellular phone provider, so it is better to simply let go of these items. Respond neutrally to any questions the mugger asks, and be non-confrontational. Try to end your interaction as quickly as possible and get somewhere safe.
And I still want to know whether or not the vast number of self defense cases with guns matter to you at all?
Please explain the logic behind this? Are you seriously suggesting that people who defend themselves against an attacker are wrong to do so? If they hadn't been attacked, there would not be violence.No, they do not. They encourage violence.
I wasn't aware we were discussing justice? I thought we were discussing gun control. If a person committing a crime gets hurt by their intended victim, that is the fault of the person committing the crime. What is the "injustice" there?LDS, you just don't realize that your idea of justice only creates more injustice.
I never said I wasn't listening. I was pointing out your double standards. "Listen to the police, unless I don't agree with him."You won't listen to people I agree with?
You have already exhibited a pattern of ignoring and disregarding things that you don't agree with.Fine. Then please respect my right to not listen to the people YOU agree with.
I wasn't aware we were discussing justice? I thought we were discussing gun control. If a person committing a crime gets hurt by their intended victim, that is the fault of the person committing the crime. What is the "injustice" there?
I said "if" a criminal gets hurt, it is their own fault for attacking someone.So, you want criminals to be hurt? As in, an eye for an eye.
So you are arguing that a mugger isn't a mugger unless it goes to court first?With no due process?
Self defense is not vigilante justice. Someone hunting down muggers is a vigilante. A person reacting to a mugging as it occurs, is not.That sounds like vigilante justice IMOHO.
Need I remind you, you've previously screamed about how a gun control law ignores the "innocent until proven guilty" clause of our Constitution, which I often doubt you've ever read.
The webcomic was incidental. As said, there is a gun control video that demonstrates the lack of knowledge that many gun control types have. I also had other points listed in my post that you apparently don't have a response for.Using a Webcomic to make a point? We're really reaching here.
Sure, like say, this one?
http://www.serebiiforums.com/showth...ol-Fascism-Everybody!&p=17023225#post17023225
Too easy. That was one of my favorites. (Okay, I'll admit, not even Palin deserved that. But Faz sure did.)
The recovered ballots certified the election of the five GI Non-Partisan League candidates. Among the reforms instituted was a change in the method of payment and a $5,000 salary cap for officials. In the initial momentum of victory, gambling houses in collusion with the Cantrell regime were raided and their operations demolished. Deputies of the prior administration resigned and were replaced.
The new government encountered challenges including at least eleven resignations of county administrators. On January 4, 1947, four of the five leaders of the GI Non-Partisan League declared in an open letter: "We abolished one machine only to replace it with another and more powerful one in the making." The League failed to establish itself permanently and traditional political parties soon returned to power.
Except my link actually had the actual video it was referring to attached. That's a lot more reliable than a comic about a toy store.Sorry, this is the correct link:
http://www.shortpacked.com/index.php?id=1196
My point was, webcomics aren't exactly reliable sources, as you can see. (Damn funny, yes, but a little short on fact.)
Here's the Wikipedia entry on the Battle of Athens, which you linked to:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Athens_(1946)
Read the Aftermath section. In fact, I'll quote it:
End result of this insurrection where they "used guns to remove corrupt politicians from power"? Riots and inability by the new government to lead due to incompetence. In other words, failure. With the traditional political parties returning to power.
gambling houses in collusion with the Cantrell regime were raided and their operations demolished. Deputies of the prior administration resigned and were replaced.
VII. The Aftermath: Restoring Democracy in McMinn County
In five precincts free of vote fraud, the GI candidate for Sheriff, Knox Henry, won 1,168 votes to Cantrell's 789. Other GI candidates won by similar margins.
The GIs did not hate Cantrell. They only wanted honest government. On 2 August, a town meeting set up a three-man governing committee. The regular police having fled, six men were chosen to police Athens; a dozen GIs were sent to police Etowah. In addition, "Individual citizens were called upon to form patrols or guard groups, often led by a GI. ...To their credit, however, there is not a single mention of an abuse of power on their behalf." (Byrum, p. 220).
Once the GI candidates' victory had been certified, they cleaned-up county government:
•the jail was fixed;
•newly-elected officials accepted a $5,000 pay limit;
•Mansfield supporters who resigned, were replaced.
The general election on 5 November passed quietly. McMinn Countians, having restored the Rule of Law, returned to their daily lives. Pat Mansfield moved back to Georgia. Paul Cantrell set up an auto dealership in Etowah. "Almost everyone who knew Cantrell in the years after the 'Battle' agree that he was not bitter about what had happened." (Byrum, pp. 232-33; see also New York Times, 9 August 1946, p. 8).
Any response to the VIDEO link the webcomic was referring to? Or do you plan on ignoring that?Taking webcomics as serious political commentary makes as much sense as saying that Mortal Kombat is an accurate martial arts documentary.
How so? They got what they wanted. Free and honest elections with the crooked removed from power.It was still a failure. And by the way, LDS, the Battle of Athens took place in 1946.
This would be the corrupt gov't ignoring the Rule of Law. And names fall out of favor all the time. You can't prove that this is why it's not a popular name.More recent attempts to defy the federal government fail miserably, even when you are a legitimately elected official with an armed force backing you up. I will give two well-known examples.
There's this famous incident from 1957:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_Rock_Nine
When the U.S. Supreme Court issued its historic Brown v. Board of Education ruling forbidding school segregation, Governor Orval Faubus (the reason no-one names their sons "Orval" anymore these days) said "Over my dead body", and told the Arkansas National Guard to support the segregationist protestors and blockade the Central High School with armed guards.
This is an example of the gov't squabbling with itself. Not an example of citizens combating a corrupt local gov't. Athens could not get the rest of the gov't to help.The President simply used one stroke of a pen to relieve him of his command of the National Guard, and as it turned out, they would not "protect their own", telling him and the segregationists to take a hike. Eisenhower then ordered the nine students given an armed escort by federal troops.
Long story short, Faubus was daring the President to stop him. He was stopped.
How nice of you to call people who hoped desparately for the daughter to recover idiots. There were people on both sides of the aisle who supported the parents. Why are you singling out Jeb Bush?Here's a far more recent example from 2005.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teri_Schiavo
Jeb Bush (who will never be President) sided with Teri Schiavo's idiot parents
If the pen is mightier than the sword, why do they need swords?Long story short, LDS, in this country, the pen is mightier than the sword, especially when the highest ranking officials can use pens to authorize the use of the biggest and most powerful swords.
And in this day and age, if those people in Athens had been an actual threat, the governor of Tennessee would have called in the Marines, and within an hour, the place would have been secured, with all members of the resistance in jail.
Governor McCord mobilized the State Guard, perhaps to scare the GIs into withdrawing. The State Guard never went to Athens. McCord may have feared that Guard units filled with ex-GIs might not fire on other ex-GIs.
I thought about making a response to all the biased crap in here but it's not relevant. Schiavo was not a case of people fighting the gov't in any form. It was a case of parents who wanted to care for their daughter vs a spouse who had moved on and was in a relationship with someone else. And this was also a case of parts of the gov't arguing with other parts of the gov't. Both political groups were involved on both sides. There were disability groups involved, right to die groups and other groups. This wasn't a Dem vs Rep issue.
Not all that much. He could have let the parents take care of her.No sympathy for her husband - you know, her legal next of kin - who was devastated by the fact that her parents were using technology to maintain her in a state that was pretty much a living corpse.
Then why not let her parents take care of her? Her brain was deteriating. Schiavo was gone. There wasn't enough left of her brain to hold a personality.She was in a vegetative state, LDS, as almost every expert said. Her body was alive, but her brain had been destroyed, rendering her at most a mockery of true life. You can't cure something like that. She stopped being Teri Schiavo after the accident, and what she was then... Her parents were in denial and simply couldn't face reality.
It was a complex issue.And please don't say it "was not a political issue" because it was and we all know it.
I would hope that the gov't wouldn't ignore rampant voter fraud.And again, I repeat, what happened in 1946 in Athens won't happen today.
Yeah it did.Edit: And as for corrupt elections, ever hear of Bleeding Kansas? It was one of the biggest and most obvious election scams in history. It didn't cause an armed resistance, but it was one major factor to something much bigger:
The proslavery groups committed voter fraud to get their people elected and the antislavery people fought back. The Kansas gov't was illegitimate but federally recognized.In August 1856, thousands of pro slavery men formed into armies and marched into Kansas. That same month, Brown and several of his followers engaged 400 pro slavery soldiers in the "Battle of Osawatomie". The hostilities raged for another two months until Brown departed the Kansas Territory, and a new territorial governor, John W. Geary, took office and managed to prevail upon both sides for peace. This was followed by a fragile peace broken by intermittent violent outbreaks for two more years. The last major outbreak of violence was touched off by the Marais des Cygnes massacre in 1858, in which Border Ruffians killed five Free State men. In all, approximately 56 people died in Bleeding Kansas by the time the violence ended in 1859.[
This was the basis for the Free State Territorial government that resisted the illegitimate, but federally authorized government elected by non-resident, and thus unqualified Missourians.
The Civil War.
An armed rebellion against the central government which failed miserably.
Not all that much. He could have let the parents take care of her.
Then why not let her parents take care of her? Her brain was deteriating. Schiavo was gone. There wasn't enough left of her brain to hold a personality.
And it only took 4 years to fail.