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Unofficial Wall Discussion Thread

Discussion in 'Older Gens' started by NotQuiteSane42, Aug 7, 2013.

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  1. NotQuiteSane42

    NotQuiteSane42 Professional Cynic

    So I've decided to post a thread about walls. No reason, just feel like it. I'll begin with a prompt, but all wall discussion is welcome here. So here's a prompt to spark some discussion: What is your...

    Favorite wall to use?
    Mine is probably Porygon2. With eviolite, the duck is incredibly bulky and will live through almost anything. Plus, it gets boltbeam coverage with its decent SAtk and is a good general switch-in to most Pokemon. Physical and special attackers alike hate this thing, which is why I love it so much. With reliable recovery in Recover and status in Toxic, it is a great defensive Pokemon and has won me more than a few battles.

    Least favorite wall to use?
    I've always had it out for the pink blobs, and I'm not sure why. I feel like Porygon2 is cooler, has more offensive prowess, and can actually take physical hits, unlike our egg-loving friends here. Even though Chansey and Blissey have Natural Cure and admittedly more bulk, (at least on the special side) other walls tend to last much longer simply because they aren't completely useless on the other end of the spectrum! In addition to my competitive disdain for the pink blobs, I just think they look SO STUPID.

    Wall you most hate countering?
    Though it isn't really a wall per se, I have to say that one Pokemon I have a really hard time taking out is Sableye. With investment, Sableye gets surprisingly bulky and ticks me off with priority Swagger, Will-o-Wisp, and Recover. It's also immune to most priority moves itself, fearing only Bullet Punch and Aqua Jet. So that only makes things worse.
     
  2. R3dB4r0n

    R3dB4r0n Breeder/Trader

    Favourite wall? I'm a huge fan of Ferrothorn. Only two weaknesess (albeit one big one), with semireliable recovery. In addition to the ability to set up hazards, it has offensive potential and can dole out nice passive damage with his ability. Even more, Ferrothorn becomes a huge hurdle while under rain support which further increases its durability. If only Thorn could spin...

    Least favourite is by far Blissey as well. I completely understand why she's favoured and used so heavily. However, I've personally never been able to use her with any sort of success or longevity. Plus, whenever I am up against Blissey I normally find it easier to K.O. than I immediately predict it will be. (But that might also be attributed to the skill level, or lack thereof, of the people I battle)

    I will always hate having to counter Ferrothron and Forretress. I find that my ability to counter them is always hit or miss based on whether or not I have the power/coverage to sufficiently damage them. Often, the most useable tool I have to take them out is a Will O Wisp, or a sneaky Destiny Bond from my Gengar. I think though that this factor is just an aspect of battling I am not good at, and need to focus on.
     
  3. Dragonicwari

    Dragonicwari Artistically angry

    Most people that know me well know I prefer defensive teams lately, and while most people consider walls useless these days I've found that if you know how to play them they can be the greatest asset to a team. Lately I have found a core of Ferrothorn, Tentacruel, and Gliscor to be fairly effective in the current meta.

    My favorite wall is Jellicent, it's counters are normally rendered useless with a promptly timed will o wisp.

    My least favorite wall to use isssss..... any defensive Politied, I feel as though I isn't properly equipped for its role and just has a bad defensive typing

    I dislike countering Ferro as it is just to bulky imo
     
  4. Eaglehawk

    Eaglehawk Banned

    Porygon2 isn't as effective as a wall anymore in OU or UU. As a wall, Porygon2 lacks Lefties recovery, so it can easily get stalled out as a wall. OU has too much hyper-damage (rain boost, sun boost, Sand residual) for Porygon2 to wall safely in the tier. Furthermore, Porygon2 has no way of removing status, making it more of a support-dependent wall (ironically)

    UU gives it a lot of weaknesses. In return, Porygon2 acts as a niche check against some threats, namely Chandelure, which basically means there is more risk than reward when using Porygon2. Furthermore, UU is pretty much barren of Rapid Spinners (translation: UU Rapid Spinners are sh!t), so hazards hurt Porygon2 even harder.

    Download Porygon2 is pretty bad right now because everything with same base defenses put 4 EVs into Sp. Def to negate a beneficial Download boost. The only beneficial ability that's not hyper-specific is Analytic, which makes him less of a wall and more of a damage pivot/tank, which deviates away from the role of a wall greatly.
     
  5. #TWERKTEAM

    #TWERKTEAM Banned

    I'm guessing you've never heard the term "bulky water". Water is pretty much one of the best pure typings a pokemon can have defensively.
     
  6. Ultimate Champion

    Ultimate Champion The Great Pokémon Master

    I have two, both of which are my favorites largely due to the fact that I was the very legendary trainer who invented their sets:

    [​IMG]

    LunarLight (Umbreon) (M) @ Leftovers
    - Charm
    - Growl
    - Rest
    - Sleep Talk

    Among the innumerable unique and creative movesets I have made throughout the long history of my Pokémon battling career, LunarLight is one of the creations of mine which I am personally most proud of. In fact, the only movesets among my creations of which I am more proud than LunarLight are the Luckpwner and the Kazeryuu (two movesets which I'll also be posting a bit later on in this thread), the absolute best Pokémon in Generation II as well as the best moveset in that generation for my favorite Pokémon across all five generations, respectively. The reason why I favor LunarLight so much is because it is by far the most bizarre and unique Pokémon in my Supreme Absolute Defense team, as well as one of its most useful members, which can stop a myriad of sweepers dead in their track, making it the star and flagship Pokémon of that team. While Skarmory is long hailed as the greatest physical wall in GSC OU, there is a large number of physical threats that even it cannot stop, and Nidoking, Porygon2, Snorlax with Fire Blast, and Curse users with Roar such as Kangaskhan, Ursaring, Rhydon and Steelix are just a few examples of such. How exactly does a stall team such as the Supreme Absolute Defense handle such physical attackers then, when the most dedicated physical wall in the entire metagame fails to stop them? The answer is LunarLight. With Curse, the most popular stat-boosting move in Generation II raising the user's Attack by only one stage, while Charm lowers the foe's Attack by two stages, LunarLight can easily neutralize just about any Pokémon that uses this move, regardless of whether or not they know Fire Blast, Roar, or any other countermeasures against Skarmory. But with Charm being such an effective technique for neutralizing sweepers that rely on Curse, then what exactly is the point of LunarLight's three other moves: Growl, Rest, and Sleep Talk, especially since Umbreon also learns a reliable healing move in Moonlight? I built LunarLight the way it is for a few reasons. The first, main, and most important reason is that Moonlight only has 8 PP, meaning that it is very unreliable on a completely stall-oriented Pokémon to be used in a completely stall-oriented team such as the Supreme Absolute Defense, forcing this Pokémon to opt for Rest instead, as ironic as it may be considering the name I have personally bestowed upon this particular Umbreon. However, with Rest, Curse users can easily beat Umbreon by hitting it repeatedly on the switch until it is forced to use Rest, at which point they can set up with Curse and destroy the Moonlight Pokémon in its sleep. As a result, Sleep Talk becomes a necessary move on an Umbreon that is dedicated to countering Curse users. And LunarLight's last and strangest move, Growl, is there to ensure that whenever it uses Sleep Talk, it has a 66.66% chance of selecting a move that lowers the target's Attack, as opposed to only having a 33.33% chance of doing so, and this is quite important, as even with Sleep Talk, certain powerful Curse users such as Snorlax, Rhydon and Ursaring can still overcome Umbreon in its sleep with some luck, if said Umbreon does not know both Charm and Growl. And the second reason for this moveset is because any GSC OU team that does not include a user of the move Heal Bell ought to contain a Pokémon that knows both Rest and Sleep Talk, and LunarLight serves that role perfectly. And thirdly, by choosing LunarLight as the user of Rest and Sleep Talk, it can also easily counter the incredibly popular Lovely Kiss Nidoking, another strong physical attacker which Skarmory cannot wall.

    [​IMG]
    Surya (Lugia) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Multiscale
    EVs: 252 HP / 52 Def / 204 Spd
    Bold Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Roost
    - Thunder Wave
    - Toxic
    - Whirlwind

    While not as threatening as the Roost-Substitute-Toxic-Whirlwind/Dragon Tail set, which can easily 6-0 teams that don't have answers to entry hazards, this Lugia is, in my opinion, the ultimate defensive Pokémon in the entire Übers tier, simply because of the ease with which it switches in and simply neutralizes the vast majority of fast offensive threats with Thunder Wave, while crippling the slower and bulkier ones with Toxic, and also easily stopping set-up sweepers by using Whirlwind combined with its insane bulk thanks to Multiscale, which allows it to survive unbelievably powerful assaults including +1 super effective Judgments and +2 Shadow Forces.

    Any wall that utilizes the move Will-O-Wisp, since such a move is no different from Splash the vast majority of the time when it is used from my experience.

    Out of all the walls I have ever encountered across numerous metagames throughout the long history of my Pokémon battling career, and also taking into account my experience with all of the teams I have ever used in those metagames, I'd say that the single wall that I dislike facing the most is the Recover or Roost/Substitute/Toxic/Whirlwind or Dragon Tail Lugia in DW/No Preview Ubers and Wifi Ubers, simply because from my experience, the vast majority of teams that do not have countermeasures to entry hazards (and even those that do have countermeasures to entry hazards, after the Rapid Spinner or Magic Bounce Pokémon has been taken out) get completely destroyed by it, which is the primary reason why I believe that many Übers teams (and in fact, I believed that all Übers teams at one point) need countermeasures to entry hazards, as despite the ease with which Rapid Spin can be blocked, the very presence of a Rapid Spinner out on the battlefield still forces the opponent's Lugia to switch out, possibly wasting their Substitute and most likely being forced to take Stealth Rock damage the next time it enters the battlefield again, giving an opening to allow one to heavily damage the opponent's Lugia, or cripple it with status. And although none of my current good teams are heavily threatened by the aforementioned Lugia (almost entirely due to the way I have conciously built such teams, having in mind my innumerable experiences facing it in the past), I still cannot forget the huge amount of trouble I have experienced against that Lugia with countless old teams of mine in the past.

    Honorable mentions regarding walls that I dislike facing include:

    • Support Arceus-Rock (or simply Arceus-Rock in general) due to its effectiveness at walling my current best Übers teams.
    • Ferrothorn due to its type combination combined with its access to annoying moves such as Leech Seed, Stealth Rock, Spikes and Thunder Wave, and although Ferrothorn is hardly a nuisance for my best Übers teams, one has to wonder what is one of the biggest reasons why I heavily favor and primarily use Sun teams in Übers in the first place. Ferrothorn has also been a huge nuisance to me back when I first started playing DW OU on the Pokémon Online server, as I primarily used a rain team back then, and Ferrothorn still made me contemplate on using a team of a different weather, despite the fact that the Swift Swim + Drizzle combination and one-hit KO moves were legal in that tier back then, and my rain team contained Kingdra, a Sheer Cold Cryogonal and a Sheer Cold Hydration Lapras).
    • Last but certainly not least, Eviolite Porygon2 in OU, due to the ease with which it walled my offensive Pokémon from my memory, as well as the ease with which it crippled my Pokémon with Thunder Wave (which was also a large part of why I abused Sheer Cold Hydration Lapras in DW OU back when one-hit KO moves were allowed in that tier).
     
  7. MetalSonic

    MetalSonic Orderan' Defendan'

    Well I do like a nice faux wall finish.


    Just kiddin, anything with a fast form of recoverys always nice!
     
  8. Dragonicwari

    Dragonicwari Artistically angry

    Yes, I know the basics of Pokemon -_-

    Alright, I should probably elaborate. I love bulky water types. But I tend to find it much easier to make a defensive core with say any dual typed mon than a pure water type. I find defensive Politoed to be outclasses by every other defensive water type in the tier, due to movepool, typing, and or stats. Is that clearer? I could write an entire essay here but it would be a lot easier to mess something up that way
     
  9. leafgreen5050

    leafgreen5050 grass type Prince

    Is this the best wall in the game? Blissey+ schuckle :
    Schuckle has max defence and sp. defence , and blissey has max HP .
    Schuckle has the highest defences in the game , and blissey highest HP. Schuckle uses guard split to average his amazing defences with blisseys amazing sp. defence and weak defence. When the highest HP and defences are combined , blissey becomes THE NIGHTMARE OF ALL WALLS! I'm terrible at competitive battling so pleace have mercy. Tell me if there is a flaw or ways to improve this combo. Thnx
     
  10. Miror

    Miror Seeker of the Blood Staff Member Moderator

    Bump, closing
     
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