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Unpopular opinions on the male protagonists?

Palamon

Sovereign of Asunder
Tracey wasn't a bad character. He just knew what he wanted in life, and that's why he didn't have character development.
 

Leonhart

Imagineer
As much as I disliked Masato, his character might've actually turned out a lot better if he'd been the only male traveling companion in AG. He could've taken over Takeshi's third wheel role. That still would've left the AG cast without a cook/nanny, but then again that could've easily been remedied by having Satoshi and Haruka pick up the slack.
 

SerGoldenhandtheJust

Legends Arceus is a masterpiece & SV will be too!
As much as I disliked Masato, his character might've actually turned out a lot better if he'd been the only male traveling companion in AG. He could've taken over Takeshi's third wheel role. That still would've left the AG cast without a cook/nanny, but then again that could've easily been remedied by having Satoshi and Haruka pick up the slack.
I lowkey agree, esp as Brock feels so wasted in AG
Plus him coming back in DP would have been more hype
 

DatsRight

Well-Known Member
I can't begrudge JN wanting to continue the 'bro' dynamic SM did a good job of and it's interesting having the male companion the main focus for once, but needless to say, Goh's goal hasn't been executed brilliantly.

I feel like a good series can be made out of retaining the perks of this era with the boys and the earlier ones with the girls. Give the Pokegirl the main individual arc, and the boy companion the best chemistry and supporting roles. It tends to often be where both character groups shine in when the writers are at their tops.

Something like Kiawe where the male companion shares similar ambitions as Ash and is something of a rival could work brilliantly.
 

beanDude

Reviewer
Tracey wasn't a bad character. He just knew what he wanted in life, and that's why he didn't have character development.

He did have a very small amount of character development which happened at the very end of the season, he went from being an Oak fanboy to working up to courage to actually just ask to intern with him. But I agree with this sentiment, Tracey knew exactly what he wanted and its pretty obvious from his knowledge displayed as early as the first episode he's in that whether or not he ever actually met Oak, he was on a good path already.

He was such a good character though because unlike most characters in the Pokemon universe he was interested in observing Pokemon in their natural state without exactly involving them with human pursuits. The Pokemon he keeps with him, Marill and Venonat are adept at seeing and hearing. It makes PERFECT sense.
 

janejane6178

Kaleido Star FOREVER in my heart <3
Goh is good
Good how? a good person wouldnt throw a ball and catch everything he sees. A good person wouldn't ty to catch a Glalie when it was with its friends/family.
He treats Pokemon as objects to collect
 

Teravolt

Yoosung my beloved~
Good how? a good person wouldnt throw a ball and catch everything he sees.
i mean
i do that in my Pokemon games so i don’t see the issue you’re trying to point out.
 

DatsRight

Well-Known Member
He was such a good character though because unlike most characters in the Pokemon universe he was interested in observing Pokemon in their natural state without exactly involving them with human pursuits. The Pokemon he keeps with him, Marill and Venonat are adept at seeing and hearing. It makes PERFECT sense.
I feel like the big hinderance with Tracey was the same as most male companions until about BW; agency. Tracey had an interesting niche and choice of Pokemon too now that you mention it, but the number of times he was allowed to put it to use can almost be counted on one hand because in general, the show keeps to a formulaic approach.

I appreciate that from about Cilan onward, they started TRYING to give the male companions some sort of distinct niche to make their contributions more unique, even it took till about SM for them to develop it enough that they didn't fall out of focus.

i mean
i do that in my Pokemon games so i don’t see the issue you’re trying to point out.
I think it's the downside of switching between Pokemon being like the game mechanics after the anime has spent so long humanizing them. It doesn't quite work out with the rest of the show.
 

KukuiFanatic501

Well-Known Member
I love Max!
Same. I honestly never understood why people gave him so much of a hard time in AG. Sure, he’s a kid and can act bratty sometimes, but what kid, in or out of Pokémon, doesn’t? It’s realistic for him to act like that.

Never saw people give Bonnie that level of dislike.

And honestly, Max focused episodes like the Poocheyena and Raltz episodes are some of my favorite episodes of the whole anime. Same with Jirachi Wish Maker.
 

DatsRight

Well-Known Member
I think it's really the same as the other male companions in earlier series, just the general lack of agency and much to do for Max in AG, even worse since he didn't have any of his own Pokemon. The character on paper isn't bad (again I'd argue he's less annoying than Bonnie at her worst, especially since the other characters were more liable to snap back at Max or give him his just desserts when he behaved like a little so-and-so) but in terms of his actual activity he's very forgettable, kinda struggling to have a role in even his own limelight episodes.

Really AG wasn't that good a series for character agency, you have the complaints about May being carried through the contests, Brock doing the least in any series besides maybe Johto, and just a general bland involvement from the main cast unless it was their arc limelight. Most of my memories of Max are him just standing in the sidelines giving odd bits of commentary. I feel like in a modern series they'd at least TRY to do a little more with him (I'd actually LOVE a younger companion akin to kid!Kukui in that time travel episode, a really eager kid who wanted to do everything and was actually given a Pokemon to try it out).

Honestly I liked how Clemont and Kiawe started with their characters but ultimately went flat really quickly.
Kiawe's an odd case in the first episodes of SM, he's arguably closer to what Gladion ended up like. I guess Ash had to win him over a bit first.

That said, while Kiawe did take the comic relief mantle after, I think he did at least keep an okay pace throughout the series. The mentor and sparring partner role still stuck. He never quite fell victim to the background prop curse Clemont and previous ones did.
 
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KukuiFanatic501

Well-Known Member
At least Bonnie did something meaningful(?) in the end at taking care of Squishy.
In fairness, the Bonnie and Squishy dynamic is essentially the same as Max befriending Jirachi or Deoxys, only longer and not in the format of a movie or special.


I think it's really the same as the other male companions in earlier series, just the general lack of agency and much to do for Max in AG, even worse since he didn't have any of his own Pokemon.
To be fair, the issue with Max not having much agency or role to play is largely because May couldn’t have gone around catching a Pokémon for him to have or take care of until being old enough to take ownership of it

It worked in Bonnie’s case since Clemont didn’t have the need of growing his roster for anything and didn’t have a particular purpose that required him to catch Pokémon, so he could spare a place on his team to get Bonnie a Pokémon. I’d say that if May wasn’t a brand new trainer and didn’t need to catch Pokémon in order to better her pursuit of contests, Max could’ve been given a Pokémon as well.

I know that due to Maxs unpopularity this would never happen in a million years, but one thing I wish the writers would do if they ever brought him back was to show him either as a trainer like he promised Ash, or have him reunite with Raltz.
 
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