Updates to Older Pokémon Discussion

[Trainer Yusuf]

Figured this deserved its own thread. In each generation we got a new update to an older species, be it in the front of moves, abilities(hidden or regular), and most recently stats. While these were largely for in-game usage, some of them changed a Pokémon's fate in the competitive metagame. So which Pokémon do you hope to see upgraded?

 

[Sceptile Leaf Blade]

Meganium, Lanturn, Flygon, others. Some pokémon are just hopeless (Unown, Ledian, etc), but Meganium is in this place that it just needs a bit of a nudge to bring it into true viability. Like, Grass Pelt as an ability, getting Floral Healing and Cotton Spore as egg moves. Little stuff like that. It'd become a good Grassy Terrain supporter in doubles, giving speed control with Cotton Spore, setting up screens, healing its allies with Floral Healing in Grassy Terrain, clearing status with Aromatherapy. You could do a lot with it, or go with Eviolite Bayleef instead to do those things.

Lanturn is in a similar position, although I reckon it doesn't need a movepool change (apart from maybe giving it Magnet Rise), it just needs a bit of a stat boost. It's just so weak it can't really get KOs even with super effective moves. I think Lanturn could also be fixed if it got a new evolution.

Flygon is another one that has the movepool, but it just needs a bit of a nudge on its stats. It doesn't need Garchomp levels of stats, it can compensate with its superior movepool (it gets stuff like Boomburst, U-Turn, and Feint that Garchomp doesn't get), but right now it just needs a bit extra. A mega evolution could really help Flygon too.

Arbok needs a bit of a buff, especially for in-game. It needs to get a better poison move via level-up. Poison Sting is too weak and Gunk Shot comes too late. It needs to get something like Poison Fang in the 20s and Poison Jab in the 40s.

Luxray needs a better electric STAB. Wild Charge just isn't strong enough and gives recoil damage, and Spark is too weak.

Avalugg needs a better Ice STAB. Avalanche has negative priority and Ice Fang is too weak. It needs something like an Ice-type Heavy Slam, Ice Hammer, or Icicle Crash.

Claydol needs to get recovery, or some kind of other buff. It's got a decent movepool with stuff like Trick Room, Power Split, Guard Split, Earth Power, Ice Beam, and so on, but it doesn't really have the stats to do much with it. A mega evolution could also work well for it.

Dewgong needs something, not sure what. Right now it's just completely outclassed by Walrein. Maybe it just needs a third form.

 

[FrozTKnight]

Give Pokemon that were screwed by the physical special split (pre gen 4) a reworking example Sceptile most of the moves it learns are physical and it highest attacking stat is special heck it can't even use its signature move (formerly) effectively

 

[paipr_christian]

Biggest thing for many is expanded movepools for many newer Pokemon. Its crazy the coverage gen 1-3 pokemom have. Yet stuff from 6 and 7 seem to have these big ol gaps and just want a few more options.

Im not saying every special attacker neads bolt/beam combo.... but there are some Pokemon that seem to barely even have stab options that match their higher attack stat, let alone more than one or 2 options beyound stab.

 

[shoz999]

They need to give every Pokemon the move headbutt as a level up move. Gonna be honest but I think it's very weird that Sawsbuck, a deer with antlers, can't learn headbutt unless it's an egg move.

 

[Grey Wind]

I liked what they did in SM where they gave a couple of older Pokemon new signature moves, and I hope they do that again. There's so many things that would benefit from a few new toys that I'm not going to list them, but I hope the Polis get something cool, just 'cause I love them.

 

[Marzbar]

Give Golduck dual Psychic typing

Give Milotic a dual type Fairy Mega Evolution

Ledian, Ariados, Farfetch'd, Delibird, Tropius, Spinda, Sunflora, Kricketune, Butterfree, Dustox, Wormadam, Beautifly, Carnivine, Corsola, Girafarig, Stantler, Castform, Swalot, Furret, Delcatty, Persian original, Seviper, Vivillon, Luvdisc, Unknown, Dunsparce, Stunfisk, Grumpig, Patrat, Minun, Plusle, Raticate, Illumise, Volbeat, Zangoose, Solrock, Lunatone, Kecleon, among others, need complete stat overhauls or mega evolutions, ASAP.

 

[Sceptile Leaf Blade]

Give Golduck dual Psychic typing

Give Milotic a dual type Fairy Mega Evolution

Ledian, Ariados, Farfetch'd, Delibird, Tropius, Spinda, Sunflora, Kricketune, Butterfree, Dustox, Wormadam, Beautifly, Carnivine, Corsola, Girafarig, Stantler, Castform, Swalot, Furret, Delcatty, Persian original, Seviper, Vivillon, Luvdisc, Unknown, Dunsparce, Stunfisk, Grumpig, Patrat, Minun, Plusle, Raticate, Illumise, Volbeat, Zangoose, Solrock, Lunatone, Kecleon, among others, need complete stat overhauls or mega evolutions, ASAP.

A lot of those just need like +10 or so in their stats to become viable. And some are just hopeless or need a new form (Ledian, Unown, Butterfree). A lot of the above simple suffer from being outclassed by something else or just not really having sufficient stats to fill their niche. Kecleon can set Trick Room and has Skill Swap with Protean, which can be fairly devastating. Spinda has Trick Room, Encore, Skill Swap, and several other tricks up its sleeve. It can Skill Swap Contrary to something and turn it into a massive unstoppable monster. For instance Incineroar with Overheat and Superpower. Or Mega Rayquaza with Draco Meteor and Dragon Ascent. Plusle and Minun primarily find their niche usage in their hidden abilities combined with Entrainment access, they are the only pokémon that can give Volt Absorb or Lightningrod to a partner like Suicune or Gyarados. Luvdisc has Entrainment Swift Swim but is pretty bad overall. Furret has a neat niche as a Baton Passer, it can pass Coil, Agility, and Amnesia, but is a bit too frail to set up. If it had a third form with more bulk it'd be a great Baton Passer. Corsola gained a buff in the 7th generation, it got a stat boost to its defences if I recall correctly. I don't think it needs a stat overhaul, just give it Baton Pass. It can set up Iron Defence and Amnesia pretty well. It's not the most reliable at it (Vaporeon is bulkier, but doesn't get Sp.Def boosting options), but it'd combine nicely with Regenerator. Corsola has a very wide defensive movepool and a lot of potential. Volbeat actually has a pretty neat niche as a Baton Passer with Prankster. It can run Focus Sash + Baton Pass + Tail Glow, which aside from Taunt or priority is very difficult to actually prevent from passing. Illumise lacks that, but it's not that bad. It's similar to Whimsicott as a Prankster supporter, but Whimsicott just has a slightly wider movepool with stuff like Trick Room that Illumise doesn't get. Both get Tailwind, Fake Tears, Encore...

 

[Kage-Pikachu]

Starmie definitely needs a buff, it's been one of the only two Pokemon to stay in OU for 6 Gens despite falling occasionally in Gen 6. I really wish he would get a Mega Evolution plus some buff to HP, SP, and/or SA and a better ability. Taking away Levitate from Gengar has to be one of the worst things they could have done...though I'm probably the millionth person to say that.

Do you think they should overhaul the system in a way that lets us assign stats to our Pokemon that they gain upon gaining levels? Similar to the Dragon Ball Z: Buu's Fury, they start with their basic stats and we choose where to add the stats they gain instead of using EVs which already have predetermined maxes.

 

[Sceptile Leaf Blade]

I don't mind Gengar losing Levitate, it's still a devastating pokémon and it's still used everywhere because of its wide movepool both on the offensive and on the supportive side, incredible speed, high Sp.Atk, good resistances, and automatically preventing the opponent from switching. It has a slightly harder time switching in without Levitate but it can still switch in on a lot of moves.

 

[Kage-Pikachu]

Shadow Tag is it's Mega form's ability though. I meant simply base Gengar, losing an immunity is never a good thing, just ask my Aegislash who got KO-ed by Miracle Eye Mewtwo...heh, that sucked because he was my last Pokemon.

 

[Marzbar]

Starmie definitely needs a buff, it's been one of the only two Pokemon to stay in OU for 6 Gens despite falling occasionally in Gen 6. I really wish he would get a Mega Evolution plus some buff to HP, SP, and/or SA and a better ability. Taking away Levitate from Gengar has to be one of the worst things they could have done...though I'm probably the millionth person to say that.

Do you think they should overhaul the system in a way that lets us assign stats to our Pokemon that they gain upon gaining levels? Similar to the Dragon Ball Z: Buu's Fury, they start with their basic stats and we choose where to add the stats they gain instead of using EVs which already have predetermined maxes.

The fact that Starmie wasn't given Regenerator as its hidden ability is criminal. It's a goddamn starfish ffs.

They could redeem it by making Illuminate actually do something in battle, and make it good! Like make the ability have a permanent Follow Me effect so it would be top tier in Doubles

 

[Sceptile Leaf Blade]

The fact that Starmie wasn't given Regenerator as its hidden ability is criminal. It's a goddamn starfish ffs.

They could redeem it by making Illuminate actually do something in battle, and make it good! Like make the ability have a permanent Follow Me effect so it would be top tier in Doubles

That'd be incredibly OP though. I'd say just make Illuminate give your entire side a boost in accuracy or something.

Shadow Tag is it's Mega form's ability though. I meant simply base Gengar, losing an immunity is never a good thing, just ask my Aegislash who got KO-ed by Miracle Eye Mewtwo...heh, that sucked because he was my last Pokemon.

We're talking about updates to pokémon, I'm assuming we're talking about everything that the pokémon can do, and for Gengar that includes mega evolution. Mega evolution is part of what makes Gengar good. Plenty of pokémon are nowhere near as good without their megas, see Charizard, Swampert, Beedrill, Sceptile, Salamence, Lopunny, Pidgeot, Kangaskhan... a lot of them see a lot of use solely because they can mega evolve. Gengar is already very good partly because it can mega evolve, and that's why I think it doesn't need anything else.

 

[Kage-Pikachu]

I didn't mean Gengar needed something additional, I just think it was a mistake to take away Levitate. He had 3 immunities making him an incredibly useful Pokemon. He's still good but having that ground weakness combined with his terrible defenses makes him much easier to dispose of.

 

[Erron Black]

I think they should start with nerfing Landorus-T by swapping out Intimidate for another ability. That ability itself is the sole reason Lando-T is the one of, if not the MOST used Pokemon in VGC and in Smogon OU. Just creates stale and boring teams.

I think some buffs should come as well. I like how they made Pelipper extremely viable just by giving it Drizzle, so simple ability changes would definitely help Pokemon stand out more. The stat changes usually don't help out a whole lot, but those are definitely welcome as well. I'd like to see some of the lower-end Pokemon get these buffs like Girafarig, Lanturn, Avalugg, Meowstic, Grumpig, etc... It'd be nice to see some of the worst Pokemon in the series get at least a little better. Also it's about time they give Bulu and Koko Play Rough as moves.

 

[Kage-Pikachu]

The fact that Starmie wasn't given Regenerator as its hidden ability is criminal. It's a goddamn starfish ffs.

They could redeem it by making Illuminate actually do something in battle, and make it good! Like make the ability have a permanent Follow Me effect so it would be top tier in Doubles

I agree, Regenerator would have been an awesome ability to have for Starmie! Hm< It would be better if he was bulkier for a Follow Me effect but it's a good idea to actually make that ability useful.

 

[Sprinter1988]

Frankly, I've always thought that Poochyena and Mightyena being given the Strong Jaw ability was a no brainer!
Both are called The Bite Pokemon. Both are based on Hyenas (mammals noted for their strong bite force) and both can access most biting moves (Bite, Crunch, Super Fang, Poison Fang, Fire Fang, Ice Fang and Thunder Fang) and yet they don't get Strong Jaw, even though Mightyena would re-he-he-he-eeaaaaallyyyy benefit from the 50% power boost.
ORAS gave us the perfect opportunity for this, given how the first time you use Dex Nav the pokemon you encounter is a Poochyena with either Fire, Ice or Thunder Fang) but no.

 

[FrozTKnight]

Frankly, I've always thought that Poochyena and Mightyena being given the Strong Jaw ability was a no brainer!
Both are called The Bite Pokemon. Both are based on Hyenas (mammals noted for their strong bite force) and both can access most biting moves (Bite, Crunch, Super Fang, Poison Fang, Fire Fang, Ice Fang and Thunder Fang) and yet they don't get Strong Jaw, even though Mightyena would re-he-he-he-eeaaaaallyyyy benefit from the 50% power boost.
ORAS gave us the perfect opportunity for this, given how the first time you use Dex Nav the pokemon you encounter is a Poochyena with either Fire, Ice or Thunder Fang) but no.

You a Mightyena fan?

I think the HA for Mightyena should have been Strong Jaw especially because of its name, lore and the animal its based on.

 

[deoxysdude94]

I'd like to see Sacred Fire on Flareon. That'd be awesome.

 

[rocky505]

I'd say make Mega Blastoise a Water/Steel type. It's the only starter that got a Mega Evolution and doesn't have a 2nd typing.