Usage of religion and mythology in fiction. What does this entail?

[mindripper]

I have seen several threads around here using religious symbolism, which I think is smashing, except for the fact that some people are absolutely slaughtering the notions which they are borrowing from. I saw that Scrap's "Sin" was derailed for a while due to some arguments, among which Yin-Yang was discussed. Unfortunately, the person who started the discussion, Ouallada if I am not mistaken, was spot-on with his (I assume) arguments about Yin-Yang.

That is beside the point. The point is whether or not a person should use religion at all in a fiction, especially if said writer knows little about the topic. For example, *******ising the notion of jihad would draw reactions from Muslims worldwide. Just remember the backlash the american media gave the war on Iraq when it was labelled a crusade. There is a reason why religion is banned in many forums, including this one, I believe, and that is the fact that statutary laws DO apply even online (lawyer friends do help), and it is possible to sue for religious slanging. I beseech anyone who wants to use any symbolism to at least do some research and make the effort to get it correct. Posting in this thread works as well, as I do know a fair bit myself.

On a lighter note, is it really needed to associate some religious or mythological symbol with legendaries 99% of the time? Is it really needed to include Yin-Yang in almost every prologue? Is it not better to create your own mythos, rather than borrow from an already existing notion, and then do it an injustice in the process?

I will post a FAQ right here, just to sort out a few things which I feel that people always get wrong, because it is pertinent to get religious issues right. People around here right now may not kick up a fuss, but there are many out there who do, especially when the entire world is on a knife's edge over the recent bombings, and terror threats. Getting your facts right will never hurt, and will even aid your credibility, as well as improve your general knowledge.

FAQ (More will be added when I have the time. Very busy now):

1) What is Yin-Yang?
Ans: Yin-Yang originates from chinese philosophy and metaphysics, and is basically about the two opposing yet complementary forces found in EVERYTHING. It is based on the notion that everything has degree, and context, and thus has an opposite degree and context, much like Newton's third law. Yang is the positive and active element, while Yin is the negative and passive element. There are no notions of good nor evil. Yin-Yang is also used in Confucianism, Taoism and TCM. TCM extrapolates to Tai-chi and the like, and is the base on which many internal arts originate. These martial arts are based on the fluxes of positive and negative energy, and strikes either to Yin or Yang areas of the body complement or dissipate such energies. On a personal note, my martial arts teacher taught me pretty well in this area, and so I guarantee you it works!

2) What do angels look like?
Ans: It really depends on their place within the angelic hierarchy, with there being nine classes. If they descend from heaven on a mission, they usually take a non-celestial form, generally a humaniod one, albeit with several discerning features, like flaming eyes in some instances, limbs of polished brass, faces of lightning, fiery swords etc. Angels in normal form typically have more than two wings, depending on their classification, and more than a single face too. Depictions you see in paintings are often taken from Nike, the Greek goddess of victory.

3) Is Ninetails considered to be a kitsune?
Ans: Very hard to say. Ninetails has nine tails, as older kitsune would possess. However, besides the physical similarities and the fiery abilities, there is absolutely nothing to correlate the two. The latter can morph, possess and even use hypnosis, while Ninetails can do none of that. It is possible that the appearance was mimicked, as Ninetails does have an image of innate power.

4) What is Rayquaza based on?
Ans: Nothing definite. Can be anything from british dragons to chinese dragons to Norse wyverns. I would say that Rayquaza is too generic to jump to any conclusions.

5) Can legendaries be attached to mythological or religious entities of similar ability?
Ans: At times, yes, but mostly it is a no-no. The problem is that pokemon legendaries do have commonplace superpowers, like control over the elements. You would not say Storm of the X-men was based on mythology, right? Most mythologies/religions have equivalents, and it is a huge chore to list all of them. For example, assuming that Groudon is based on Behemoth is plausible, but it is difficult to say if it is intentionally so.

6) What if I want to use Satan or Lucifer in a fiction?
Ans: If for some weird reason that is a writer's intention, then know first and foremost that the two are most probably different entities. The religious world is divided on this-- half do not know about the logical error in the bible that leads to this, most religious scholars believe that Satan and Lucifer are indeed seperate entities, and a minority believe that they are one and the same. Do avoid using those two, though.

7) I played games like Devil May Cry. Demons in those games like Mundus are really cool. What is he about?
Ans: Mundus means "universe", and his role is actually to be all encompassing. Do remember that Dante and co. were actually based on Dante Aligheri's TDC.

8) I want to use a referance to Tolkien's mythos, but I do not know enough. What then?
Ans: Well, Tolkien's work is actually the base on which most fantasy stories are based, and so most fantasy writers already borrow from Tolkien. I know a fair bit, and anyone can ask.

9) What exactly is a demon. I need to write a horror story.
Ans: The word demon is commonly taken to originate from "deivos", which means celestial or angelic. As most already know, demons in Christian religion and mythology are actually fallen angels, and hence the derivation. There are classes of demons, ranks, different days and powers associated with some of them as well. The big hitters accross mythologies are Satan, Lilith, Sammael, Azazel, Leviathan, Belial, the Shedu, Ghul, Iblis and Afrael. Just for knowledge's sake. Please ask for anything. Too complex to even skim the surface.

10) What exactly is a sigil?
Ans: A sigil in christian religion is taken to be the unholy symbol, while elsewhere it is commonly taken to be a magical symbol, with enemy elements opposite, with friendly elements next to each other. The difference between the two is that the star is inverted in the religious symbol, as in the two-pointed side of the star is at the top of the circle.

That is just the first ten questions. I will post more when I have time,covering Greek, Egyptian, Norse, Babylonian and Jewish mythologies, among others. Please excuse the talk about demons and all, as it is an integral part of religion, as they are the trials that make man stronger, and are needed to paint a complete picture. More people use those than deities in any case. Please post with any questions. I will try to answer them. Any field is fine with me.

 

[Dragonfree]

I like to use religious ideas, but I wouldn't call most of them symbols - when I have the Creator, Preserver and Destroyer in The Quest for the Legends, the three Pokémon in question are not actually supposed to symbolize Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva. The exception, of course, is in Chains and Shackles where the whole point of the story is to compare something in the Pokémon world to the Bible, and I believe I'm at least fairly accurate there.

 

[Ledian_X]

Like Dragonfree, I like to use religion in my stories too. My aliens are polythestic believing in many Gods and Goddesses. One of my characters is named after the Goddess of the ocean and the ocean plays a big role in the species make up as they can live on land and in water. They believe in many Gods but they are also very technologically advanced. Their religion defines their belief system.

But, they aren't close minded and dislike technology. They believe in their Gods and various cermonies such as weddings are rooted in the stories of the Gods. So, they play an intrinstic part of the aliens.

My pantheon aren't symbols. I've been thinking of making them real a la Marvel Comics' Thor. As for real world religions, It's probably best to have them too as they convey realism. There are people that are religius/non religious in the world, so why not make it realistic. Just put research into it. It can help give a character depth and make he or she realistic.

To avoid confusion, you could always do what I did. Create your own religion with detites, texts and all that. In fact, I should probably do a part where the alien religion comes in conflict with Earth religions. It's already drastically different but there is some similarities to Greco-Roman myth.


LX

 

[Ryano Ra]

Ah, I remember that argument in Scrap's thread about Yin and Yang.

I create my own mythologies. I don't use ones that are already out there because I find those to be rather too historical or too noble to be tampered with in the wrong way. The only type of mythology/religion I use within my upcoming fantasy fanfiction is Heaven and Hell, though I recognized them as Havigma and Hatill (new terms for the story), and that Heaven is good and Hell is bad. However, I crafted that Havigma and Hatill work together to create life, such as how the beautiful morning eventually dies away into the black night. Work of Heaven and Hell, Havigma and Hatill. I only took the basic fact that Heaven is for the good, the natural, and the cured, and Hell is for the supernatural, the tainted, the bad. After that, I used my own creations and so on and so forth. I like to use religious ideas, though I heavily use research to accompany it, just to make sure I use it correctly. Otherwise, I'll take the base of the ideas and create the rest from my imagination.

 

[Dilasc]

Religions are vast and wide in Dust to Deceit. Heck, the Orbital Occult worships the stars, the planets and the moons. They even worship comets every so often.

As for demons, Dust to Deceit has five legendary Oni demons. For those who don't know, Oni is a demon in Japanese mythology that have mask-like faces. They are not symbolic of anything except that they are really bad, both in the sense of the term cool, and just plain EVIL!

Personally, I'm not into the religion fiasco, but the fact remains that the stuff exists.

 

[mindripper]

Correct. That is precisely my point. It is GOOD to use religion, but if a person is not going to research and get facts down well, then a story is better off without religious connotations.

Also, as a reader, I do find religion more of a plot device for dramatism of fictions at times, which I feel is pretty sad. Religion can be used in so many more ways beside this.

I am pretty sure there are many who use religion, unknowingly or otherwise, and it is imperative that if direct references are drawn, said references are at least accurate. People who draw parallels do not need accuracy, ut a direct usage of religion or mythology should at elast be precise.

As for demons, Dust to Deceit has five legendary Oni demons. For those who don't know, Oni is a demon in Japanese mythology that have mask-like
faces. They are not symbolic of anything except that they are really bad, both in the sense of the term cool, and just plain EVIL!

Actually, Japanese demons or spirits are generalised as Yokai, and then split into categories. Oni are at the evil end, while the kitsune are not necessarily evil, and mostly merely mischevious.

 

[pokeplayer984]

I use the teachings of my religion in my fanfics. The thing is, I hide them in a special way and so that no one can guess that it is of religion. Let me show you one account from Misty's Miracle to help you understand:

“Oh, there you are.” A female voice said near them. They turned to see May walking up to them.

(“May! I... I...”)

“You don’t have to say anything, Beautifly. I know.”

“We know.” Someone said behind May, correcting her.

They looked behind May to see Jessie walk up to them. She then stopped right in front of the insect pokemon.

“We know you love eachother.” Jessie said.

“We understand how you feel about eachother, but me and Jessie could never be together. Besides, something like that is just wrong in the end.” May said.

“Yea, it’s very wrong.”
----------------

Now, if you look at this part VERY CAREFULLY you'll notice a little account on same sex marriage and adultry in one. As you can see, it looks like someone's opinion in the story, when in reality, it's actually part of my religious teaching. In my religion, same sex marriage and adultry are both VERY serious sins. I didn't want to explain why because of the fact that I already had 20 pages for that chapter and I didn't want to make it too long.

My religion says that, and I quote, "We believe that the marriage between a man and a woman is ordained of God and is the only rightous one."

"We believe that same sex marriage offers no true happiness. It deprives the ultimate plan of the lord thy God. It offers no chance of children from the parents and thus doesn't give the gift of a family."

"A man should cleve unto his spouse and no one else. And the woman should do the same and seek no other man."

As you can see, there's alot to be said here from just those few lines. I hide my religous teachings like that to avoid arguments. By hiding it, I just don't have to suffer.

 

[Sike Saner]

*shudders* I will be perfectly honest with you - I would NEVER intentionally reference real religion in my stories. Never, never, never. I have not truly, deeply studied any form of religion. I prefer to write only what I either know or invent. And I am most definitely not interested in potentially offending people, especially on such a deep and dear level. I just don't want any trouble...*shudders again* Hence, any reference I make to any of my characters being religious will always refer to a fictional religion. Always. Any resemblance to any real religion is entirely unintentional. As I stated, I have never studied religion.

 

[Bu†cH]

I"ll be making a fanfic this winter which a couple of the characters are in a religion I kinda made up, like the Force in Star Wars.

May the Force be with you.

 

[xXSaberXx]

D: LOLOL.

Well, I admit to using religion. There are these things in PRCOF called Chaos and Nature. Opposites on the scales. Chaos and Order is what I derived them both from, Chaos being the random, destructive force that lies in Humans and everything in the world. However, there is also Order, or Nature, that resides in everything. Everything has two opposite forces, encompassed by an 'It'.

The It could be taken as God or Budda or Odin, perhaps all of them in one. It is the force that created the 'universe', and set Chaos and Nature upon each other to make better what it had created.

If Chaos and Nature were playing a football game, 'It' would be the stadium.

To put it in light terms, THAT ^ sums up the extension of my religious imputs in PRCOF.

I do refrain from using any Exsisting Religion though, just for the sake of less bickering and debating. But I feel it is the author's right to perhaps make religions. D: It's fun, and you can base whole speices or races or clans on the religions. ^^;;

 

[Kal-El]

I'm all for using religion in fics. I'm writing one about Satan's release at the end of the Millenial Kingdom.

Of course, when I posted it on PC I put a warning there as to not offend.

 

[Kiyohime]

I use Yin-Yang associated with Lugia and Ho-Oh. I did quite a bit of research in the subject of it, so I'm hoping I didn't totally screw up.

As mindripper says, Yin is passive and associated with feminity, immateriality, the moon, etc. Yang is dominant, masculine, sun. I don't use it to symbolize evil and good, since Sin in my story is not evil. It's just a mindless hunger.

Yin-Yang was intended to represent opposing forces that need each other to survive, like light and darkness.

I also use characters named Shiva, and soon-to-appear Vishnu and Brahma to represent Creation, Destruction, and Preserving.

My city is named Eden, but it isn't intended to be an attack of any sort on religion-- it's intended as a metaphor for a perfect paradise. I sort of went on a limb and created a mythos in Sin that revolves around people worshipping Ho-oh as the Sun God and Lugia as the Moon Goddess.

All in all, I thought I was doing a decent job of maintaining a correct approach, but some people's opinions may differ. ^^;

 

[Chibi Pika]

In later parts of my fic, I put a couple little...referrences to religion...a major example being that the Pokegods are mentioned to be angels personified in mortal form and born randomly to normal Pokemon parents when there is need of their presense. (and likewise, the "dark" Pokegods are demons, but their fall was not at the beginning of time, but rather based upon their role in an ancient war.)

The Legendaries are referred to as guardians that originated each with a certain aspect of the seven days of creation (ie: firmament of the waters = separation of sea and sky = Lugia and Ho-oh.)

Yes, I admitted it, certain backstories and aspects of LC are rooted in Christianity. *hides.*

~Chibi~;249;<?>;rukario;

 

[≈*Virulent Tsunami*≈]

OMFG, I was just thinking of this XD

Anyway, in my Fic, I do plan to make one of the characters strongly devout, though I haven't decided on who it will be yet(though I rather doubt it will be Flannery, it just doesn't seem to fit with her. Plus, I've already wrote enough about her for readers to get the general image of her, so even if I wanted to make her a Christian, it's too late). Then, Regice(or Registeel, because anyone who reads my Fic knows that would be a laugh and a half XP), being the inquisitive, knowledge-hungry Golem it is, will question the beliefs of said individual, and a big long debate will sprout from that over religion.

I would do another religion, since Christianity is the main religion used, but I don't know anything about the other religions, and I'd offend any Muslim/Hindu/Buddhist/whatever readers if I had a go at writing about their religion(no, I'm not joking, I'd probably write something stupid that you don't do with that religion, and offend someone unintentionally). Given the chance, though, I'd like to do a different religion, because Christianity is, like, the default religion, and overused in terms of......usage(lol). Rather like Charizard is in my Fic. I'd rather not use it, but what other choice do I have? Ho-Oh?

~*CB*~
The 8th Champion​

 

[mindripper]

Well, IMO it is great to use real-world religion, but only if author can pull it off. I was a little afraid that people would flame me for saying that religion has been pretty much slaughtered by many authors, knowingly or otherwise. You know how people are defensive of their work, but I am glad that this is not the case as of now.

To those who feel that Christianity is the default religion, I would not go so far as to accept or reject that notion, but all religions are equal. Also, the central deity in Christianity has parallels in Allah and several central deities i other religions. There are also roots in Greek mythology and vice versa, as those who have read the DaVinci Code would likely know by now (one of the few portions of the book that is absolute truth). Also, the NT and OT differ slightly, as do the central antagonists. Do take measures not to blur those lines in writing.

I will be addressing several little-known facts about Christianity soon. Now that we have seen that Satan and Lucifer may not be the same entity, it is important to note that Eve may not (in fact, most likely not) be the first woman. Will be covering that and other areas soon, like usage of religion in novels and poems. If I have time, I will also touch on Solommon, Aleister Crowley, the Goetia, the bible's extra chapters as well as other bits like the birth of vampires and the validity of the Mad Arab's Necronomicon.

For those who want to venture into other religions, I suggest Egyptian religion. IMO, it has great potential, and I am going to use it in future fics. Extrapolated Christianity has roots and links as well as too many conflicting portions with Jewish religion, for example, to utilise fully.

Anyone with any questions can drop me a mail.

 

[Ledian_X]

A person can pull off real world religion easily by doing a little research into it or altering it a bit like what Marvel Comics has done with Thor. They took the Norse myths and altered it a bit to create the blonde haired thunder God Thor, who was a founding member of the Avengers. The general public doesn't believe he's a God, though. But, he is. The Avengers and X-Men have both visited Asgard.

That's just one example of pulling it off. Marvel's done the same thing for Hercules. Aside from polythestic religions, many monothestic religions have been represented well. Daredevil's catholic for example as is Nightcrawler (he had a whole preist arc in Uncanny X-Men). The X-Men's Shadowcat is Jewish as is th Fantastic Four's Thing.

So, the point is that Christianity and Judaism can be done right with research. It's been done right in comics for a long ime and in other forms of literature.

In terms of my story, aside from the aliens the rest are Christians aside from Tk and Kaori. They were born in Japan and hwnce aren't Christian. But, I see what you're saying about avoiding conflict. You just need to research it and if you do that, then there shouldn't be a problem.

Or you can just make up a religion drawing upon Greco-Roman Gods and Goddesses like I did and having a whole race of aliens devoted to them.

LX

 

[Ash_Junior]

o.0

people are actually considering bringing real life religions into their fics?

0.o

personally, I wouldn't, simply on the basis that this isn't earth, so thigns would be a lot different.

that's why I shudder each time I write the word "English" to describe the language that they're speaking. That's why I changed it to "Basic"

in my opinion, this is a completely new world, and shouldn't have ANYTHING from our world, unless it would be too hard to describe.

*shudders*

 

[Ledian_X]

Religion brings a sense of realism, as I keep saying. That's why people are thinking of putting it in their fics. Sometimes it helps to define the characters if they belong to a very spiritual people. It can also deepen the character, give them a different view of things. So, why not bring it in if it can be handled correctly?

The Pokemon world could be Earth. Real World locations have been mentioned. It's possibly an alternate Earth. Just like my reality in the story could be an alternate reality. Point is, it brings a human aspect to the characters. It makes things realistic like violence for example. Sometimes to connect with the reader, you need to be realistic.

Even making up a religion is a good idea. You could base it on anything. So, why wouldn't be a good idea? All people have to do is research a religion nd take some aspects of it and try not to make people mad.

LX

 

[Elemental Charizam]

I wondered when this wouls turn up...

EC's pointless religious fact of the day: Jihad doesn't actually mean rebellion, uprising or anything requiribng violence; it merely means to strive.

I think some people are too uptight about religion and mythology; sure, if you use it you should know your stuff, but if you're *BASING* something in your fic on it, you can take liberties. For example, Ninetails COULD easily be BASED on the Kitsune; they have several things in common. When basing an idea on something, you generally develop and change it, often so much so that people can't see the connection. You can deliberately change the 'reality' of religion in your work as well, ala the 'His Dark Materials' trilogy, though don't be suprised if people take offense.

As you may have guessed, I'm fine with the use of religion and mythology in fiction, though mythology is a safer topicc is you don't want to cause offense.

 

[mindripper]

Jihad doesn't actually mean rebellion, uprising or anything requiribng violence; it merely means to strive.

It is derived from a word which means to strive, but jihad itself encompasses much more than merely striving. In modern context, it is unwritten truth that many Muslims use jihad as a shield of sorts and an excuse for "freedom fighting", while the rest of the world associates the term with violence, and with all that is going on, it is easy to see why. Jihad is actually the struggle to attain perfect spiritual faith, like nirvana, and is only violent when outwardly extrapolated to become a Muslim holy war against non-believers. As I said, many Muslims would feel offended by the mainstream association of jihad with violence, except that in many cases nowadays it is sadly true, albeit a twisted excuse.

For example, Ninetails COULD easily be BASED on the Kitsune; they have several things in common.

I answered that question already. "Easily be based" or "most likely" is just not enough when dealing with such issues. Many believe that Jesus rose at three in the afternoon, although I could be wrong on this, and we do not say that Jesus could be construed to have risen at three, because such things require fact. Therein lies the gist on which religious study as well as entire branches of knowledge is based on, that assumptions are taken to be false until proven true.

personally, I wouldn't, simply on the basis that this isn't earth, so thigns would be a lot different.

Well, it can be taken to be earth. The first movie had mention of a real location, right?