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Usage of religion and mythology in fiction. What does this entail?
Even in FR/LG, one of the entries on Lt. Surge in the Fame Checker is, "The Lightning American!" And that wasn't even a mistake, the Fame Checker wasn't in R/B/Y, so they didn't just use old information. They actually planned that. So I suppose the Pokémon world is like some sort of hidden region or something. XD I dunno.Scrap said:
~*CB*~
The 8th Champion
The 8th Champion
Lady Barbara
Ocean Girl
The only recommendation I can make to authors who plan to use religions as they exist in our world: do your homework. Research the rituals, concepts, ideologies, etc. If your character is of a particular faith, please make sure that it fits the story. On LiveJournal, someone ranted about Kagome from InuYasha being written as a Christian in a fic. The author herself was Christian. However, in the anime, Kagome is a Shinto priestess.
Yamato-san
I own the 5th gen
Kagome a Christian? Now that's f***ed up. Could she have converted in the fic? It's possible, but one would have to consider that it's extremely unlikely when she's in an era with several Japanese demons running around to confirm her faith.
For the record, "kitsune" is just the Japanese word for "fox". The whole idea of a fox living for centuries, growing tails and stronger magical abilities within that time, is just a myth surrounding the animal. In other words, it's no different from our myth of a cat having nine lives. Is there some single type of mythical cat that's able to die and be ressurected 8 times? No. Having nine lives is just a myth that generalizes all cats, so likewise, generally all foxes are supposedly gonna live long and grow more tails according to a myth surrounding them. With that in mind, the Pokemon Rokon and Kyuukon are indeed based off the "kitsune", as well as several aspects of the myth that surrounds the "kitsune".
The Pokemon world may be different from our's, but do remember that the regions in the game are based off of sections of Japan. Also, aside from the references to real world places in the games, the early episodes of the anime had several cultural references that makes a Japanese setting very, very apparent. My story takes place in Jouto, but I try very hard to give it a Japanese-style setting, and of course, I really do my homework concerning the culture. As for religion.... Japan's mainly built a mix of Shinto and Buddhist believes, and while there are other religions, they are an extremely small minority (I think I heard somewhere that Japan's Christian population is less than 2%). I haven't shown many aspects of Buddhism (honestly, I don't know near as much about it as Shinto, and one of the only major aspects on the culture I can think of it being involved in is funerals, since death is supposedly believed to be too grim a manner for Shinto to handle), but thus far, I have shown the characters involved in quite a few Shinto-based activities.
For the record, "kitsune" is just the Japanese word for "fox". The whole idea of a fox living for centuries, growing tails and stronger magical abilities within that time, is just a myth surrounding the animal. In other words, it's no different from our myth of a cat having nine lives. Is there some single type of mythical cat that's able to die and be ressurected 8 times? No. Having nine lives is just a myth that generalizes all cats, so likewise, generally all foxes are supposedly gonna live long and grow more tails according to a myth surrounding them. With that in mind, the Pokemon Rokon and Kyuukon are indeed based off the "kitsune", as well as several aspects of the myth that surrounds the "kitsune".
The Pokemon world may be different from our's, but do remember that the regions in the game are based off of sections of Japan. Also, aside from the references to real world places in the games, the early episodes of the anime had several cultural references that makes a Japanese setting very, very apparent. My story takes place in Jouto, but I try very hard to give it a Japanese-style setting, and of course, I really do my homework concerning the culture. As for religion.... Japan's mainly built a mix of Shinto and Buddhist believes, and while there are other religions, they are an extremely small minority (I think I heard somewhere that Japan's Christian population is less than 2%). I haven't shown many aspects of Buddhism (honestly, I don't know near as much about it as Shinto, and one of the only major aspects on the culture I can think of it being involved in is funerals, since death is supposedly believed to be too grim a manner for Shinto to handle), but thus far, I have shown the characters involved in quite a few Shinto-based activities.
Dragonfree
Just me
That's really propaganda, though, not a religious theme - you're using your fic as a medium for your political opinions without that really directly relating (as far as I can tell) to the point of the story. (I'm not accusing you - I've actually done the same in my fic, although that had nothing to do with religion.)pokeplayer984 said:I use the teachings of my religion in my fanfics. The thing is, I hide them in a special way and so that no one can guess that it is of religion. Let me show you one account from Misty's Miracle to help you understand:
“Oh, there you are.” A female voice said near them. They turned to see May walking up to them.
(“May! I... I...”)
“You don’t have to say anything, Beautifly. I know.”
“We know.” Someone said behind May, correcting her.
They looked behind May to see Jessie walk up to them. She then stopped right in front of the insect pokemon.
“We know you love eachother.” Jessie said.
“We understand how you feel about eachother, but me and Jessie could never be together. Besides, something like that is just wrong in the end.” May said.
“Yea, it’s very wrong.”
----------------
Now, if you look at this part VERY CAREFULLY you'll notice a little account on same sex marriage and adultry in one. As you can see, it looks like someone's opinion in the story, when in reality, it's actually part of my religious teaching. In my religion, same sex marriage and adultry are both VERY serious sins. I didn't want to explain why because of the fact that I already had 20 pages for that chapter and I didn't want to make it too long.
My religion says that, and I quote, "We believe that the marriage between a man and a woman is ordained of God and is the only rightous one."
"We believe that same sex marriage offers no true happiness. It deprives the ultimate plan of the lord thy God. It offers no chance of children from the parents and thus doesn't give the gift of a family."
"A man should cleve unto his spouse and no one else. And the woman should do the same and seek no other man."
As you can see, there's alot to be said here from just those few lines. I hide my religous teachings like that to avoid arguments. By hiding it, I just don't have to suffer.
Actually, the plot of The Quest for the Legends revolves around a religious theme in many ways - and you could say an anti-religious theme, too, because [SOMEWHAT MAJOR SPOILERS] [spoil]later on it starts to put a lot of focus on how despite the Legendaries' godlike status, they are just as imperfect and self-centered as humans[/spoil].
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M
mindripper
Guest
Yamato San, the Japanese Yokai DOES include both Oni and Kitsune. It is irrelevant where the word "kitsune" is derived from, as from what I have studied, Kitsune commonly denotes a spirit, capable of morphing but commonly in the guise of a fox. Whether or not Vulpix and Ninetails are based on the Kitsune is a different matter, and I would not jump to conclusions there. As for why a cat has nine lives, will touch on that later.
Lady Barbara
Ocean Girl
I know, and that was the problem with the fic. Kagome's just presented as a Christian. There's nothing to indicated why or how or when she converted. I'm all for tweaking canon when it suits your story, but this was ridiculous.
Wondrous Sableye
Heh.
From what I've read(and it might just be wrong, but the person that wrote the source did what appears to be rather extensive research), a kitsune, as far as legends are concerned, is a fox that has lived for over one thousand years, by which point its fur turns gold, silver, or white. As to the power of hypnosis, the attack Confuse Ray could, in a sense, be deigned a form of hypnotism, could it not?
As far as the idea of sigils, with enemy forces appearing opposite and affiliated forces adjacent, that seems to have popped up in one of my ideas for a future story. Light, fire, and electricity (with wind being outside the polygon) are on the top corners of a hexagon, while darkness, water, and wood are on the bottom(with earth being, again, outside). Does that sound sort of like a sigil?
As far as the idea of sigils, with enemy forces appearing opposite and affiliated forces adjacent, that seems to have popped up in one of my ideas for a future story. Light, fire, and electricity (with wind being outside the polygon) are on the top corners of a hexagon, while darkness, water, and wood are on the bottom(with earth being, again, outside). Does that sound sort of like a sigil?
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Look at Ninetales's Pokedex entries.
"Ninetales casts a sinister light from its bright red eyes to gain total control ove its foe's mind. This Pokemon is said to live for a thousand years."
"Very smart and very vengeful. Grabbing one of its many tails could result in a thousand-year curse."
"A long lived-Ninetales will have fur that shines like gold."
Ninetales learns Imprison, Confuse Ray, Grudge, Will o' Wisp. All rely on indirect control of the mind and pyrokinesis. Kitsunes can do the same. Therefore, they may not be TOTALLY based on a Chinese or Japanese myobu or nogitsune, but you have to admit the kitsune was the Ninetales' base inspiration.
"Ninetales casts a sinister light from its bright red eyes to gain total control ove its foe's mind. This Pokemon is said to live for a thousand years."
"Very smart and very vengeful. Grabbing one of its many tails could result in a thousand-year curse."
"A long lived-Ninetales will have fur that shines like gold."
Ninetales learns Imprison, Confuse Ray, Grudge, Will o' Wisp. All rely on indirect control of the mind and pyrokinesis. Kitsunes can do the same. Therefore, they may not be TOTALLY based on a Chinese or Japanese myobu or nogitsune, but you have to admit the kitsune was the Ninetales' base inspiration.
M
mindripper
Guest
A sigil is basically just a symbol. There are reasons why Wicca practitioners use such symbols, and it really is quite complicated, but magical sigils typically only have 5 points, as they are representative of the five magical elements, or rather the five colours of magic. Not really elemental forces or chinese elements, though.
On the topic of the Kitsune, Ninetails MAY be based on them, but there simply is not enough of a link, because the Kitsune can do much more than Ninetails ever can. You see, drawing a physical reference is not enough. Ninetail's pyrokinetic feats is not enough either, as if you replace said pyrokinesis with electrical abilities or the like, there are approximate equivalents in other mythologies as well. Coupled together, it makes a reasonable case for Ninetails being based on the kitsune possibly, but it is no more than a "maybe" kind of thing.
How many other white-golden-silver foxes with nine tails do you see in mythology? ONLY THE KITSUNE. It can't just be mere, silly concidence that Ninetales shares the same appearance, the inmate mind powers, the PYROKINESIS....AND you utterly disregarded the Pokedex entries I posted about Ninetales living over a thousand years, LIKE THE KITSUNE do. Therefore, rational and logical connections point to what seems to be apparent: The Kitsune was Ninetales' inspiration, and its base. Is that really so difficult to see? XD
Go get 'em, Scrap.Scrap said:
I agree, you can't just push away factual points, Mindripper. You are failing to realize that the significances between an actual 'kitsune' and a Ninetales are pretty recongizable, if you get my drift. It isn't a 'maybe', for why would a Ninetales have nine tails, live over a thousand years, and so on and so forth. You are trying to set so many different abilities of a kitsune against a Ninetales that you fail to see what they have in common, which is enough to say that Ninetales was inspired by a kitsune. >> And it really isn't difficult to see; Mindripper is only making it difficult. ;_;
ImJessieTR
I WON'T kiss Ash...
My Team Rocket Trilogy was very heavy into mythology (because for some strange reason the links I provided for fanfiction.net work on every other site but this one, I began posting them here in Shippy fics). I have like ten books of mythology at my house and I've read them all about five times each. Because the idea for this trilogy is that pokemon become real in our future because of environmental pressure, I focus not on one religion but in the cultural mythology I figured the pokemon were inspired by. Hence, Ho-oh is a Western phoenix because it looks like birds drawn in Central-South American iconography, while Moltres is an Eastern phoenix because it looks like the cool Chinese phoenix on my robe. Entei is considered on some sites to be of Japanese origin, yet there is an Incan (Peru) sun god named Inti. And yes, I looked that up. That's why you see an Incan-type picture of Entei when either Molly or Professor Oak is looking at all pics of Entei. Lugia is born in the Pacific Ocean simply because there are tons of islands in the Pacific so it seemed to make sense. Zapdos is the Great Thunderbird of Plains Native American fame. I figured that by using an entire globe's worth of myths, no one could blame me for disrespecting anyone or focusing solely on my own.
In my story, I use demons and space travel, and the odd worship of solar, lunar, and planetary objects in the solar system. In this way, Dust to Deceit is a blast to write, even if few even read it... but that's another story.
Regardless, a main point I need to make is that just because you're using a religious reference, doesn't mean you have to link it to the reference. For instance, in my story, I have five legendary Oni demons. They are not very Japanese based, considering that Kertonmel isn't even supposed to be based on a region of Japan at all. Instead, it's, the way I see it, more like a derangedly changed Mongolia, hence why talks of a blazing horde on Ponyta cavalry archers and camelry in the land's past help link it to a Mongolian Empire style setting.
Regardless, these demons are only Oni in that they are able to 'face' you. Other than that, they are strong demons who enjoy feasting on souls, blood, and enjoy causing chaos. Yet, they are anything but boring. In that way, they are fleshed out, and taking out flesh, but are still enjoyable, even if they are not the traditional Japanese demon.
All in all, stereotyping is a bad idea, especially with such a delicate and manipulable subject such as one's choice of deity/deities. That's why I rely on a more athiestic, scientific approach in my stories.
Regardless, a main point I need to make is that just because you're using a religious reference, doesn't mean you have to link it to the reference. For instance, in my story, I have five legendary Oni demons. They are not very Japanese based, considering that Kertonmel isn't even supposed to be based on a region of Japan at all. Instead, it's, the way I see it, more like a derangedly changed Mongolia, hence why talks of a blazing horde on Ponyta cavalry archers and camelry in the land's past help link it to a Mongolian Empire style setting.
Regardless, these demons are only Oni in that they are able to 'face' you. Other than that, they are strong demons who enjoy feasting on souls, blood, and enjoy causing chaos. Yet, they are anything but boring. In that way, they are fleshed out, and taking out flesh, but are still enjoyable, even if they are not the traditional Japanese demon.
All in all, stereotyping is a bad idea, especially with such a delicate and manipulable subject such as one's choice of deity/deities. That's why I rely on a more athiestic, scientific approach in my stories.