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Usage vs. Usefulness

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3

3.14kachu

2.72pic √(-1)nventor
The whole concept of tiers being determined by usage doesn't seem that fair to me, but that's just my opinion. I looked at the data that Smogon collected for the battles on its server, and some of the least-used pokemon could be good in OU. Bronzong, for instance, is a great counter to most OU sweepers, yet it was placed solidly in UU based on the number of people who used it. And that's just one example of many. In light of this, I'd like to discuss how tiers should really be organized.

Should tiers be based on usage, or usefulness?
 
F

Fortunato

Sic Transit Gloria
the way they are because its an effective system that works just because its in a lower tier doesn't mean it isn't good in OU. Theres plenty of mons in lower tiers that work great in OU you just have to know how they work and how to use them.
 
R

Regarde

Banned
the real reason is that usefulness could only be judged on a purely subjective basis whereas usage is purely objective.
 
B

Blue Harvest

Banned
The tier system works fine. You can use anything you want in OU NO MATTER WHAT TIER ITS IN (besides Ubers). I don't get why people think the tiers don't work when they allow ridiculous freedom to use whatever you want in a game where there are nearly 700 Pokemon and literally millions of set combinations.

If something works well in standard, USE IT. If you want to use garbage Pokemon like Beedrill, play NU. If Bronzong works well in standard you should use it REGARDLESS of if its OU or UU.
 
A

Aquadon

TCG Trainer
Blue Harvest said:
The tier system works fine. You can use anything you want in OU NO MATTER WHAT TIER ITS IN (besides Ubers). I don't get why people think the tiers don't work when they allow ridiculous freedom to use whatever you want in a game where there are nearly 700 Pokemon and literally millions of set combinations.

If something works well in standard, USE IT. If you want to use garbage Pokemon like Beedrill, play NU. If Bronzong works well in standard you should use it REGARDLESS of if its OU or UU.
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This. Too many people say "Oh it's in UU so it must be Garbage", when this is so far from the case. It might not be getting enough usage at this current time, but the usefulness factor means that it can be used well in both UU and OU (see: Azumarill, Hitmontop). Heck, the only reason a Tier List should matter is to see if it's banned in a lower Tier (Obv. Ubers can't be in OU, and OU/BL can't be in UU).
 
N

NeohopeSTF

Sol Badguy
Well here is what i think a pokemon's placement in a tier is based on usage not if its good or bad.
 
D

Dattebayo

Banned
Despite being based on usage, newcomers will guarantee judge a Pokemon if it's useful or not based on its tier placement. They'll mock you if you use a Golurk in OU instead of Tyranitar.
 
B

Blue Harvest

Banned
Dattebayo said:
Despite being based on usage, newcomers will guarantee judge a Pokemon if it's useful or not based on its tier placement. They'll mock you if you use a Golurk in OU instead of Tyranitar.
Click to expand...

No one will mock you if you use a Golurk, they will mock you if you do it badly (aka Rock Polish or Choice Band).
 
N

NeohopeSTF

Sol Badguy
Blue Harvest said:
No one will mock you if you use a Golurk, they will mock you if you do it badly (aka Rock Polish or Choice Band).
Click to expand...
Yeah it's how you use the Pokemon
 
D

Dattebayo

Banned
Blue Harvest said:
No one will mock you if you use a Golurk, they will mock you if you do it badly (aka Rock Polish or Choice Band).
Click to expand...

What exactly is wrong with the Rock Polish set? It helps fix its speed problem.
 
P

Psycho Cut

Well-Known Member
Both.

While tiers are determined by usage, usage is the best way to determine usefulness.
 
L

legendarypokemonmaster

Well-Known Member
You can use whatever you want in OU, unless it is banned to Ubers.
 
AB2

AB2

cake cake cake cake
Lol, there are plenty of things that are usable in OU that happen to be in the lower tiers. UU pokemon such as Slowbro | Celebi | Mew | Deoxys-D | Mamoswine | are all very usable in OU. The usage is only there to show what is the most popular pokemon or combination. Although people generally do use what is good, that doesn't mean you should only use what is it in OU. So in other words, if it can work in OU use it not matter what tier its placed in.
 
3

3.14kachu

2.72pic √(-1)nventor
But doesn't tier placement by usage work against the lower tiers? Dusclops, for example, is gaining a lot of use now that it has Eviolite, but if it is deemed OU, people playing in UU wouldn't be able to use it anymore. Is that really fair?
 
D

Dattebayo

Banned
3.14kachu said:
But doesn't tier placement by usage work against the lower tiers? Dusclops, for example, is gaining a lot of use now that it has Eviolite, but if it is deemed OU, people playing in UU wouldn't be able to use it anymore. Is that really fair?
Click to expand...

OU has a limited capacity, so the only way for Dusclops to get into OU is when another Pokemon moves down to UU.
 
C

chanseychansey77

Elite Trainer
But doesn't tier placement by usage work against the lower tiers? Dusclops, for example, is gaining a lot of use now that it has Eviolite, but if it is deemed OU, people playing in UU wouldn't be able to use it anymore. Is that really fair?
Click to expand...

Sure it is. It's exactly the same as OU players not being able to use Garchomp anymore 'cause it was banned to Ubers. And what's stopping them from playing OU as well?
 
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