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Versus Thread

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Genaller

Silver Soul
Alain vs Paul
  • Who trains their pokemon harder?
  • Whose training is more impressive?
Alain for the first 1 and Paul for the 2nd 1. For Alain he has an unmatched motivation to get stronger particularly after lamenting his powerlessness in ME Act 3. Even in the off day of the Kalos League where Ash and his friends are having a picnic, all Alain does the whole day is train non-stop. Paul also trains his Pokémon extremely hard, but I don’t think his motivation is as high as Alain’s.

From what we’ve seen Alain’s training seems to be fairly rudimentary primarily consisting of either practicing a Pokémon’s moves or battling other trainers. Paul on the other hand seems to make specialized training regiments for all of his Pokémon in order to maximize their potential. For Chimchar he deliberately made the training brutal (like simultaneously taking several attacks from Paul’s other Pokémon), so that it would be pushed to its limits and hence have a higher chance of activating special Blaze again. With Torterra he had it practice Frenzy Plant control against a Pokémon with high speed/stealth like Weavile. In general Paul uses his Pokémon to help train each other (so the training is collaborative) whereas based on what we saw with how Alain trains Charizard, we can presume that Alain trains each of his Pokémon separately and hence they don’t get the collaborative benefit that Paul’s Pokémon get.
 

CMButch

Kanto is love. Kanto is life.
Alain vs Paul
  • Who trains their pokemon harder?
  • Whose training is more impressive?
Well,Paul trains all Pokemon, while Alain is seen only training MCX.He likely trained them all.
Alain trains MCX pretty good. Paul probably trained all of his Pokemon also good but Chimchar.But that was with a reason.
 

ash&charizardfan

Humans are tools
Alain for the first 1 and Paul for the 2nd 1. For Alain he has an unmatched motivation to get stronger particularly after lamenting his powerlessness in ME Act 3. Even in the off day of the Kalos League where Ash and his friends are having a picnic, all Alain does the whole day is train non-stop. Paul also trains his Pokémon extremely hard, but I don’t think his motivation is as high as Alain’s.

From what we’ve seen Alain’s training seems to be fairly rudimentary primarily consisting of either practicing a Pokémon’s moves or battling other trainers. Paul on the other hand seems to make specialized training regiments for all of his Pokémon in order to maximize their potential. For Chimchar he deliberately made the training brutal (like simultaneously taking several attacks from Paul’s other Pokémon), so that it would be pushed to its limits and hence have a higher chance of activating special Blaze again. With Torterra he had it practice Frenzy Plant control against a Pokémon with high speed/stealth like Weavile. In general Paul uses his Pokémon to help train each other (so the training is collaborative) whereas based on what we saw with how Alain trains Charizard, we can presume that Alain trains each of his Pokémon separately and hence they don’t get the collaborative benefit that Paul’s Pokémon get.


Alain's training is more harder and impresive for me, he always challenges the toughest of trainers like champions, E4, even legendaries and multiple trainers with megas. Now that is the best way to get stronger is to have experience against strong opponents as compared to training on your own. A good example is football training, you could see videos of many players showing great skills in training but they generally fail in proper matches. Alain is an example of trainer who gets stronger by battling other people.
 

PokemonBattleFanatic-

Hardcore Paul Fan
I personally think Alain trains harder than Paul but Paul's training is more impressive.Alain managed to get his Charizard to around E4 status,but since he put most of his focus on his starter the rest of his team got less focus and is much weaker in comparison.Paul on the other hand puts equal amount of focus on majority of his pokemon especially since he's always rotating his team from him to Reggie.

Back when Ash's Infernape was a Chimchar and was originally with Paul it came off as weak in it's debut battle against Aipom who isn't anywhere close to an actual powerhouse,it made a return a few episodes later,Flame Wheeled a wild Ursaring to help Paul capture it and defeated Ash's Turtwig,each time it made an appearance it got faster,stronger,and learned new moves (Ember->Fire Spin->Flamethrower in just a short amount of time).
Paul's Ursaring was easily captured by Paul after being Flame Wheeled by Chimchar but after that happened Paul managed to EV Train make it even stronger,it's really evident in it's match against Chimchar,it had it on the ropes and could pretty much say that Ursaring was going to win up until Chimchar activated Blaze.

At the Lake Acuity battle it swept half of Ash's team,in just 10 days it learned the status move Bulk Up and the ability Guts.This carried over to the sinnoh league as it was hit with Skarmory's Spikes,damaged by super effective moves from Barry's Hitmonlee and burned by it's Blaze Kick but Ursaring was still standing and defeated it,before it returned to it's pokeball it also took it's own focus blast after Barry's Empoleon deflected it back with it's wing.All of these examples just proves that Paul is capable of training his pokemon and in the process making them stronger in a shorter amount of time compared to someone like Ash.
 

Navin

MALDREAD
Nah he would’ve found the answer quickly just like he did against Tyranitar. Well yes you were factually wrong in claiming that there were only 4 fields. I’ve never credited any version of Ash to make a specific game plan for what to do for several different battlefields beforehand (he’s literally never done that), so I don’t know what you’re getting at. For the forest field specifically the log strat didn’t even become a viable option (as I’ve continuously said) till Aegeslash cut the trees. Ash wouldn’t have Pikachu do that instead because A) it would leave Pikachu wide open for an attack (Aegeslash was able to initially pretend like it was trying to hit Pikachu in order to hide its true intent of destroying the trees though thanks to King’s Shield Pikachu can’t really do the same since Aegeslash wouldn’t even need to dodge a lot of the time) and B) the logs on the ground initially put Pikachu at a disadvantage by making the ground uneven. If you consider the time from when the trees got cut to be the start time for Ash to figure out the log strat then he didn’t really take all that long to figure it out.

Now you're just making up a bunch of excuses. You want to keep giving XY Ash this credit of always being capable of figuring out strategies quickly, yet he clearly didn't when it came to Aegislash. He saw Aegislash in a previous battle, knew Aegislash had King's Shield, and didn't have anything prepared against it until he got the epiphany from the cut logs. XY Ash could have baited Aegislash into cutting something (be it trees, rocks, ice, etc.) from the get-go and had Pikachu immediately jam the scabbard with it, but he didn't.

Nope; XY Ash has a noticeablly faster aggregate decision making speed (we could literally go through every “eureka” moment either Ash has come up with and the amount of time they took to do it, and XY Ash would win handidly) which I’d presume is thanks to his superior experience and composure. XY Ash also has better aggregate reaction time, command speed and is superior at move chaining. Whatever; Orange League (IIRC made almost as many switches as SL Ash did against Paul) and Johto League Ash >> Hoenn League Ash in switching (since the guy literally switched all of 0 times during 3 full battles), so it’s not like more switching = better in the slightlest (unless AG Ash was also a regression).

Except he didn't. AG Ash worked on his attack-chaining and "counterstrategy", and also relied more on the grit of his team to get through battles. DP Ash put it all together.

Rock Climb (at least as far as Tomioka was concerned) was not by itself a bad play; however, Regi’s statement during the Lake Acuity Battle makes it clear that a Pokémon can get vulnerable during (and hence immediately right after since there should exist an albeit small time interval after the move is done before the Pokémon can regain its guard) Synthesis yet Ash still chose to make that play hence it would be a mistake since Drapion was in a position where it could easily attack Torterra; a mistake induced by Paul’s excellent battle psychology, but still a mistake. The better play would’ve been to just accept that Torterra was going to loose and try to get in as much damage as possible before falling (so he should have continued using offensive moves after Rock Climb failed). This actually follows from the Lake Acuity battle where Regi states that Paul was using mind games to prevent Ash from battling soundly. The narrative in the SL battle was that Ash was initially still getting tripped up by Paul’s battle psychology, but he persevered and overcame this as the battle progressed. The difference is that XY Ash’s battling competency would never be affected by Paul’s battle psychology in the first place

Yeah, and it's BS writing that after a healing move like Synthesis (caused by the dreadful writing of Suicide Mountain that had Torterra to fall down a cliff of its own making) a supposed tank like Torterra gets instantly KO'd by a Pin Missile. That's not a mistake by Ash (especially when the writers are not not going to showcase Torterra's new move); it's just a great move by Paul + stacked writing against Torterra. XY Ash literally would have done the same exact thing, and had the same exact result. Stop making it sound as if XY Ash didn't make plenty of mistakes in his battles.

Goodra. The way they butchered Ash’s first psuedo at the league was criminal. Which one was “worse” though is entirely a matter of subjectivity, so I’m not pushing the point any further.

Goodra got a starring win against Clemont's Luxray. Goodra at least got a draw against Sawyer. Torterra literally became Worf Effect fodder, in part to the most nonsensical move ever written in the anime. It's not even comparable.

I doubt Drapion can break the entire battlefield at once and good luck trying to catch Infernape with its great speed especially when Drapion can’t even see it. If Drapion tries doing that, it would likely just end up wasting stamina and underground Flare Blitz (which Paul never expected till it happened) would still go off resulting in Drapion taking even more damage due to greater stamina drain.

Why not? It's happened before in the anime. The possibility is still there. Why risk sending out your best Pokemon against a dangerous opponent?

Darkrai also had loads of sheer power (OHKed a supposed tank in Torkoal) and speed (dodged Sceptile’s Quick Attack and performed its next move faster than him) though it’s fairly obvious that the utility from having a healing move in Dream Eater was a major part of what allowed Darkrai to sweep full teams with such effectiveness (Latios certainly isn’t doing that with nearly the same degree of effectiveness). I’m sorry, but I can’t in good conscience see Tobias’s Latios not knowing a healing move (despite that obviously being very helpful for Darkrai) as anything other than literal Plot Induced Stupidity, so that Pikachu’s whole Thunderbolt chip damage tactic would go smoothly. Regardless the Tobias performance meritocratically definitely isn’t Ash’s best performance from a pure skill standpoint (even if it made him look good).

...Um, because Dark Void is the signature move of Darkrai, and it makes all the sense in the world to couple Dark Void with Dream Eater since the Pokemon will be asleep.

It makes a lot of sense actually to have a move like Light Screen that can mitigate damage, especially against a powerful opponent that would deliver a lot of damage regardless.
 

Genaller

Silver Soul
Now you're just making up a bunch of excuses. You want to keep giving XY Ash this credit of always being capable of figuring out strategies quickly, yet he clearly didn't when it came to Aegislash. He saw Aegislash in a previous battle, knew Aegislash had King's Shield, and didn't have anything prepared against it until he got the epiphany from the cut logs. XY Ash could have baited Aegislash into cutting something (be it trees, rocks, ice, etc.) from the get-go and had Pikachu immediately jam the scabbard with it, but he didn't.
Actually this discussion is about both Ash’s peak performances (SL Paul and KL Alain respectively) and you’re the 1 going on this irrelevant (and fallacious) tangent about an aspect of his performance against Sawyer. Ash has literally never done something like preparing beforehand for what to do against a given Pokémon in several different battlefield scenarios; that’s not the sort of trainer he is and you insinuating that I think he can do that based on my praise of him is the epitome of a strawman fallacy. The examples that I used to show that XY Ash’s decision making speed outclasses DP Ash’s were in scenarios where both were presented with the challenge in the match itself and in both cases were fairly similar (Trick Room to Trick Room and Toxic Spikes to Sandstream).



Except he didn't. AG Ash worked on his attack-chaining and "counterstrategy", and also relied more on the grit of his team to get through battles. DP Ash put it all together.
Yeah he did. If you want to headcanon it like that then be my guest; there were several points in the HL where Ash would have benefited from switching (especially against Katie) yet he literally switches all of 0 times over the course of 3 full battles. Orange Islands Ash on the other hand makes 4 switches in his 1 full battle (Ash against Paul at the SL made made 5). Switching really isn’t all that special; even OS Ash at certain points knew how to do it effectively.


Yeah, and it's BS writing that after a healing move like Synthesis (caused by the dreadful writing of Suicide Mountain that had Torterra to fall down a cliff of its own making) a supposed tank like Torterra gets instantly KO'd by a Pin Missile. That's not a mistake by Ash (especially when the writers are not not going to showcase Torterra's new move); it's just a great move by Paul + stacked writing against Torterra.
Nope it’s objectively a mistake (based on the statements of Brock + Regi (in LA)) because Ash messed up the timing of Synthesis causing Torterra to be vulnerable. It’s not my problem if you don’t understand that. If we don’t consider XY Ash as the successor to DP Ash in terms of skill and character (which is what you do) then I can admit that there’s a degree of subjectivity in saying who’s best performance was “better” given both sets of positive feats and mistakes. As to what those positive feats and mistakes were to begin with; however, I don’t think there’s any subjectivity in them (they’re all based on direct observations and inferences,and I’m very conifident in my ability in those aspects).

XY Ash literally would have done the same exact thing, and had the same exact result. Stop making it sound as if XY Ash didn't make plenty of mistakes in his battles.
Nope since DP Ash made that mistake due to Paul’s battle psychology getting to him initially and XY Ash would never allow that to begin with. Another strawman; we’re specifically discussing the Paul and Alain performances and I outlined what I observed/inferred to be the merits and demerits of both performances with complete impartiality. I was actually very surprised that the positive feats of both performances match up so well despite the SL battle having a significantly longer run time.


Goodra got a starring win against Clemont's Luxray. Goodra at least got a draw against Sawyer. Torterra literally became Worf Effect fodder, in part to the most nonsensical move ever written in the anime. It's not even comparable.
And Torterra got a starring win against Ramparados as a Turtwig. Torterra also got to look good against Frontier Brain and E4 lvl opponents (even if they weren’t really trying). Goodra draws against a Slurpuff whom up till then was shown as a jobber (and got plot nerfed since Ash didn’t have it use Rain Dance to weaken Flamethrower) and then jobs to Bisharp so that Greninja isn’t a fall guy. This would be an aspect where it is mostly subjective as to who got butchered worse.


Why not? It's happened before in the anime. The possibility is still there. Why risk sending out your best Pokemon against a dangerous opponent?
What evidence do you have that Drapion can break apart the entire battlefield? The only Paul Pokémon in that battle who has shown the ability to do that is Electivire. Let’s see... because Infernape was the only 1 who could counter Toxic Spikes which is capable of crippling Ash’s entire team; seems like a pretty good reason. XY Ash would get the “turn the battlefield upside down” thought signifcnantly earlier than DP Ash and as a result would end up sending Infernape out earlier (I’d say after Staraptor falls) to execute underground Flare Blitz. He would definitely get the “eureka” moment earlier though how much earlier is where the subjectivity comes in.


...Um, because Dark Void is the signature move of Darkrai, and it makes all the sense in the world to couple Dark Void with Dream Eater since the Pokemon will be asleep.
Actually they could’ve also/instead had it know Nightmare which further damages sleeping Pokémon. Dream Eater was specifically useful because of its healing aspect which would have undoubtedly played a vital part in being able to effectively sweep full teams.
It makes a lot of sense actually to have a move like Light Screen that can mitigate damage, especially against a powerful opponent that would deliver a lot of damage regardless.
Okay and they literally could have just had Recover be his 4th move (since Latios only used 3 moves), but nah cuz that would ruin Pikachu’s chip damage strategy. I just headcanon it as Latios was recently caught hence Tobias didn’t have the time to teach it a healing move since that’s the only answer that makes sense from an in-universe standpoint.

Anyways I’d appreciate it if you stuck to the topic at hand which is basically a “versus matchup” of Ash’s SL Paul and KL Alain performances. In general XY Ash is trivially (axiomatically) better than DP Ash for me just like how Hoenn Ash is better than Johto Ash and Sinnoh Ash is better than BF Ash since I consider XY Ash to be the next stage in Ash’s skill and character progression and over half of the broader Pokémon anime community does as well. Matter of fact only slightly under a quarter of the broader community believe that DP Ash is outright more skilled than XY Ash (just some fun results; check them by downloading “amino” on your smartphone and then join the Pokémon community). I thought this particular “matchup” was interesting to discuss since I previously just assumed that the SL Paul battle would be Ash’s GOAT performance due to sheer run time + narratively satisfying climax though surprisingly Ash in KL Alain has just as many positive feats and his mistakes aren’t as bad as DP Ash’s mistakes (IMAO on the “not as bad” part though what the mistakes were in both cases isn’t up for subjective interpretation).
 
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Navin

MALDREAD
Actually this discussion is about both Ash’s peak performances (SL Paul and KL Alain respectively) and you’re the 1 going on this irrelevant (and fallacious) tangent about an aspect of his performance against Sawyer. Ash has literally never done something like preparing beforehand for what to do against a given Pokémon in several different battlefield scenarios; that’s not the sort of trainer he is and you insinuating that I think he can do that based on my praise of him is the epitome of a strawman fallacy. The examples that I used to show that XY Ash’s decision making speed outclasses DP Ash’s were in scenarios where both were presented with the challenge in the match itself and in both cases were fairly similar (Trick Room to Trick Room and Toxic Spikes to Sandstream).

So basically you want to cherrypick and say that XY Ash magically became much better from Vs. Sawyer to Vs. Alain so that now he can decision-make quickly in every situation? Lol okay.

Yeah he did. If you want to headcanon it like that then be my guest; there were several points in the HL where Ash would have benefited from switching (especially against Katie) yet he literally switches all of 0 times over the course of 3 full battles. Orange Islands Ash on the other hand makes 4 switches in his 1 full battle (Ash against Paul at the SL made made 5). Switching really isn’t all that special; even OS Ash at certain points knew how to do it effectively.

"Switching isn't all that special." LOL okay. Switching sure would have helped XY Ash in a bunch of scenarios.

Besides, "XY is the new AG." AG Ash didn't switch as much, and neither did XY Ash. Both relied on their Pokemon (the number of times XY Ash sent out/kept his Pokemon in type-disadvantage situations) to just grit their way through battles.

DP Ash was the best of all worlds in being realistically written to know when to aggressively switch + counter-strategy + keep his Pokemon in the battle.

Nope it’s objectively a mistake (based on the statements of Brock + Regi (in LA)) because Ash messed up the timing of Synthesis causing Torterra to be vulnerable. It’s not my problem if you don’t understand that. If we don’t consider XY Ash as the successor to DP Ash in terms of skill and character (which is what you do) then I can admit that there’s a degree of subjectivity in saying who’s best performance was “better” given both sets of positive feats and mistakes. As to what those positive feats and mistakes were to begin with; however, I don’t think there’s any subjectivity in them (they’re all based on direct observations and inferences,and I’m very conifident in my ability in those aspects).Nope since DP Ash made that mistake due to Paul’s battle psychology getting to him initially and XY Ash would never allow that to begin with. Another strawman; we’re specifically discussing the Paul and Alain performances and I outlined what I observed/inferred to be the merits and demerits of both performances with complete impartiality. I was actually very surprised that the positive feats of both performances match up so well despite the SL battle having a significantly longer run time.

Yeah, they praise Paul more than they critique Ash. Give me a break, if that was "vulnerable", then every iteration of Ash is guilty of messing up timings. The fact is it was garbage writing that led to Torterra Suicide Mountain'ing into having to use Synthesis and still getting KO'd by a frickin Pin Missile just after healing while being a supposed tank. That writing wouldn't have magically saved XY Ash from also losing with Torterra.

And Torterra got a starring win against Ramparados as a Turtwig. Torterra also got to look good against Frontier Brain and E4 lvl opponents (even if they weren’t really trying). Goodra draws against a Slurpuff whom up till then was shown as a jobber (and got plot nerfed since Ash didn’t have it use Rain Dance to weaken Flamethrower) and then jobs to Bisharp so that Greninja isn’t a fall guy. This would be an aspect where it is mostly subjective as to who got butchered worse.

As.A.Torterra.

What evidence do you have that Drapion can break apart the entire battlefield? The only Paul Pokémon in that battle who has shown the ability to do that is Electivire. Let’s see... because Infernape was the only 1 who could counter Toxic Spikes which is capable of crippling Ash’s entire team; seems like a pretty good reason. XY Ash would get the “turn the battlefield upside down” thought signifcnantly earlier than DP Ash and as a result would end up sending Infernape out earlier (I’d say after Staraptor falls) to execute underground Flare Blitz. He would definitely get the “eureka” moment earlier though how much earlier is where the subjectivity comes in.

There have been a bunch of examples of Pokemon slamming the ground and causing stuff to crack/burst. It was a perfectly valid move for Ash to not want to send Infernape until it was absolutely necessary to avoid getting Poisoned and avoid having to expend energy to battle against a tough opponent in Drapion or waste energy in burning the battlefield. Buizel and Staraptor had already battled, so better to expend them to try and take down Drapion. Once Ash realized Drapion could block/evade their attacks and easily grab them out, he sent out a large tank in Torterra that should have been able to absorb a lot of damage, chip away Drapion with ranged attacks, and should have had the high ground if Suicide Mountain was written correctly.

Actually they could’ve also/instead had it know Nightmare which further damages sleeping Pokémon. Dream Eater was specifically useful because of its healing aspect which would have undoubtedly played a vital part in being able to effectively sweep full teams.

Darkrai's Dream Eater dishes out enough damage + heals Darkrai, so obviously that's better.

Okay and they literally could have just had Recover be his 4th move (since Latios only used 3 moves), but nah cuz that would ruin Pikachu’s chip damage strategy. I just headcanon it as Latios was recently caught hence Tobias didn’t have the time to teach it a healing move since that’s the only answer that makes sense from an in-universe standpoint.

Once again, if Toby is against a trainer with a Pokemon capable of actually damaging Latios to that extent (which is almost never), it's better to have Light Screen in that niche position. This argument of yours that Latios not having a healing move somehow makes the feat contrived or less impressive is just stupid.

Uh nope, that's just a very weird headcanon of yours so you can downplay this feat once again.

Anyways I’d appreciate it if you stuck to the topic at hand which is basically a “versus matchup” of Ash’s SL Paul and KL Alain performances. In general XY Ash is trivially (axiomatically) better than DP Ash for me just like how Hoenn Ash is better than Johto Ash and Sinnoh Ash is better than BF Ash since I consider XY Ash to be the next stage in Ash’s skill and character progression and over half of the broader Pokémon anime community does as well. Matter of fact only slightly under a quarter of the broader community believe that DP Ash is outright more skilled than XY Ash (just some fun results; check them by downloading “amino” on your smartphone and then join the Pokémon community). I thought this particular “matchup” was interesting to discuss since I previously just assumed that the SL Paul battle would be Ash’s GOAT performance due to sheer run time + narratively satisfying climax though surprisingly Ash in KL Alain has just as many positive feats and his mistakes aren’t as bad as DP Ash’s mistakes (IMAO on the “not as bad” part though what the mistakes were in both cases isn’t up for subjective interpretation).

Lmao, I could care less what some "amino" voters think. If they come here and see the arguments given by Serebii posters, they'd probably change their minds too. I already pointed out to you how XY Ash made mistakes against Alain.
 
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Genaller

Silver Soul
Lmao, I ould care less what some "amino" voters think. If they come here and see the arguments given by Serebii posters, they'd probably change their minds too. I already pointed out to you how XY Ash made mistakes against Alain.
Everything you said has either already been countered or is in the realm of headcanon territory and hence not worth bothering with :). LMAO I dare you to try! All you need is a smartphone. Like I’ve said before; it’ll be a good lesson for you to understand that the broader Pokémon anime community (1 that blows this echochamber out of the water) on the whole couldn’t care less about your arguments ;). A fun little poll I made regarding Ash’s strongest Pokémon with 102 votes (for comparison a similar poll here only got 43 votes) has the results:

- Pikachu: 23
- Charizard: 13
- Sceptile: 7
- Infernape: 8
- Greninja: 51

As you can see Greninja wins by a landslide :D. Know that From a logical standpoint your reasoning is utterly inept and from a populist standpoint you don’t represent the views of the broader community whatsoever, so basically your views have trivial value by either metric. Anyways bye bye Navin (at least on this forum). I’ll be waiting for you in the Pokémon community in amino app (the 1 with over 940,000 members) and I’ll enjoy seeing you try to change the views of the broader Pokémon anime community only to realize that they don’t care about what you have to say. Of course if I don’t see someone there making threads to do with why Greninja isn’t the strongest, why Tyson > Sawyer or why DP Ash > XY Ash in skill etc.. then I’ll know that you just don’t have the balls to try backing up what you claim. Good day :).
 

Navin

MALDREAD
Everything you said has either already been countered or is in the realm of headcanon territory and hence not worth bothering with :). LMAO I dare you to try! All you need is a smartphone. Like I’ve said before; it’ll be a good lesson for you to understand that the broader Pokémon anime community (1 that blows this echochamber out of the water) on the whole couldn’t care less about your arguments ;). A fun little poll I made regarding Ash’s strongest Pokémon with 102 votes (for comparison a similar poll here only got 43 votes) has the results:

- Pikachu: 23
- Charizard: 13
- Sceptile: 7
- Infernape: 8
- Greninja: 51

As you can see Greninja wins by a landslide :D. Know that From a logical standpoint your reasoning is utterly inept and from a populist standpoint you don’t represent the views of the broader community whatsoever, so basically your views have trivial value by either metric. Anyways bye bye Navin (at least on this forum). I’ll be waiting for you in the Pokémon community in amino app (the 1 with over 940,000 members) and I’ll enjoy seeing you try to change the views of the broader Pokémon anime community only to realize that they don’t care about what you have to say. Of course if I don’t see someone there making threads to do with why Greninja isn’t the strongest, why Tyson > Sawyer or why DP Ash > XY Ash in skill etc.. then I’ll know that you just don’t have the balls to try backing up what you claim. Good day :).

I love how you continuously keep bringing up irrelevant stuff when people constantly own your arguments here. Sorry, I don't need to waste my time in successfully convincing another forum. Wouldn't want you to run off crying to another forum to hear what you want.
 

Genaller

Silver Soul
I love how you continuously keep bringing up irrelevant stuff when people constantly own your arguments here. Sorry, I don't need to waste my time in successfully convincing another forum. Wouldn't want you to run off crying to another forum to hear what you want.
Which people? You? The guy who never once won best debater in his entire tenure here in contrast to I who won on my first try? Sure if you want to live in a world of delusion then go for it. Cool so you don’t have the balls; got it :). I’ve been over this but the far larger sample size that place offers makes the poll results there far more indicative of the overall community consensus than the polls here. I’m just having so much fun seeing how full of sh1t you truly were when you constantly acted like “everyone” was “with” you :D.
 
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Navin

MALDREAD
Which people? You? The guy who never once won best debater in his entire tenure here in contrast to I who won on my first try? Sure if you want to live in a world of delusion then go for it. Cool so you don’t have the balls; got it :). I’ve been over this but the far larger sample size that place offers makes the poll results there far more indicative of the overall community consensus than the polls here. I’m just having so much fun seeing how full of sh1t you truly were when you constantly acted like “everyone” was “with” you :D.

It's rather sad how winning a casual fan poll forces you to continually brag about in desperation as if it gives your arguments some validation. :rolleyes:

Why don't you actually respond to the above arguments instead of bringing up irrelevant stuff and behaving so insufferably.
 
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Genaller

Silver Soul
It's rather sad how winning a casual fan poll forces you to continually brag about in desperation as if it gives your arguments some validation. :rolleyes:
Says the guy who’s never won said casual poll despite being here for well over 7 years (so either your “arguments” plain suck or people here don’t care about them enough to bother voting for you in that category); just saying it like it is ;). I already know I’m better than you from a pure logic standpoint :); me bringing up those polls was to show your word isn’t worth squat even from a popularity standpoint since you certainly don’t represent the opinion of the broader online Pokémon anime community.

Why don't you actually respond to the above arguments instead of bringing up irrelevant stuff and behaving so insufferably.
I’m glad you found me insufferable; serves you right for being so full of sh1t for so long :D.

That's wonderful kiddo. Let me know when you're done with your tantrum and want to actually bother debating thread-relevant stuff.
What’s the point in debating with someone who has such a long track record of being so full of sh1t? Fyi I made a another poll based on which Ash performance is better in terms of Ash’s trainer skill in that place; it’s not even been a day and the results so far are:

- Vs Paul Sinnoh League: 23
- Vs Alain Kalos League: 48

Honestly I was expecting it to be much closer though I can’t say I’m not satisfied with the outcome :).
 
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Frozocrone

Miraculous!
Everything you said has either already been countered or is in the realm of headcanon territory and hence not worth bothering with :). LMAO I dare you to try! All you need is a smartphone. Like I’ve said before; it’ll be a good lesson for you to understand that the broader Pokémon anime community (1 that blows this echochamber out of the water) on the whole couldn’t care less about your arguments ;). A fun little poll I made regarding Ash’s strongest Pokémon with 102 votes (for comparison a similar poll here only got 43 votes) has the results:

- Pikachu: 23
- Charizard: 13
- Sceptile: 7
- Infernape: 8
- Greninja: 51

As you can see Greninja wins by a landslide :D. Know that From a logical standpoint your reasoning is utterly inept and from a populist standpoint you don’t represent the views of the broader community whatsoever, so basically your views have trivial value by either metric. Anyways bye bye Navin (at least on this forum). I’ll be waiting for you in the Pokémon community in amino app (the 1 with over 940,000 members) and I’ll enjoy seeing you try to change the views of the broader Pokémon anime community only to realize that they don’t care about what you have to say. Of course if I don’t see someone there making threads to do with why Greninja isn’t the strongest, why Tyson > Sawyer or why DP Ash > XY Ash in skill etc.. then I’ll know that you just don’t have the balls to try backing up what you claim. Good day :).

You mean this poll?

I won't deny Greninja is indeed powerful (well, A-Greninja at least, base Greninja doesn't have a lot of feats), but when you include your 'Argument for Greninja's power' or whatever you've titled it, don't you think you might be influencing the vote in Greninja's favour?
 

Genaller

Silver Soul
You mean this poll?

I won't deny Greninja is indeed powerful (well, A-Greninja at least, base Greninja doesn't have a lot of feats), but when you include your 'Argument for Greninja's power' or whatever you've titled it, don't you think you might be influencing the vote in Greninja's favour?
I just gave my opinion (which happens to be really long); nothing inherently wrong with that. If you notice the comments section then opinions have also been given on why Ash’s other Pokémon deserve the vote and I myself actknowledged the feats of Ash’s other Pokémon as impressive in those comments. Not to mention that I’m fairly sure that many who voted didn’t even look inside the poll since you can vote without entering the full page. In addition several other polls (where I don’t include that argument) regarding Ash-Greninja vs (insert top caliber Pokémon here) also heavily support my conclusion concerning Ash-Greninja being in the E4 Mega Ace/Champion Base Ace spectrum. If you’d like you could make an analogous poll except provide an argument in the post for why another of Ash’s Pokémon is his best and observe the variance in results (presuming a similar number of voters respond). Also the version of the poll that pops up from that link seems to be outdated.
 

Navin

MALDREAD
What’s the point in debating with someone who has such a long track record of being so full of sh1t? Fyi I made a another poll based on which Ash performance is better in terms of Ash’s trainer skill in that place; it’s not even been a day and the results so far are:

- Vs Paul Sinnoh League: 23
- Vs Alain Kalos League: 48

Honestly I was expecting it to be much closer though I can’t say I’m not satisfied with the outcome :).

Cool story bro. Do you think anybody here cares what some other forum (where you're clearing posting your arguments without anybody countering them to the extent that happens here) thinks? Stop derailing the thread. Why don't you just move over there permanently if you're unable to deal with arguments here?
 
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