Versus Thread

[WaterMasterTrainer]

Uh except Brock and Misty returned in SM recently for cameos, and both had Megas. And it was Brock who actually won (and pretty convincingly), with his Mega Steelix tanking a Z Move from Kiawe's Turtonator, and then beating it. If anything, Misty's Mega Gyarados lost quite easily to Pikachu, so that might be the weak link.

Anyway regardless, I think the duo of Mega Steelix and Mega Gyarados should beat Blaziken and Dragonite.

Brock's Steelix probably only won due to the fact Brock is undoubtedly more experienced than Kiawe. May's Blaziken was able to match Ash's Sceptile and Iris is the best female battler with a Dragonite that was able to tank Blizzards and Ice Beams which he has a 4x time weakness to. I'm sorry but Misty and Brock couldn't touch either of them.

 

[GarchompTheAssassin]

Tag Battle: May’s Blaziken and Iris’s Dragonite vs Brock’s Mega Steelix and Misty’s Mega Gyarados

The Megas/Brock and Misty got this one

 

[Genaller]

Anyway regardless, I think the duo of Mega Steelix and Mega Gyarados should beat Blaziken and Dragonite.

I’d have to disagree. I think people overrate Mega Steelix because it tanked a Z-move (and still Brock said that it hurt pretty bad), and then Misty’s Mega Gyarados gets overrated by extension since most would say that Brock and Misty’s Megas should be on par. Sure tanking a Z-move is narratively impressive though the caliber of the opponent also needs to be considered and I don’t think Turtonator is all that great based on feats (would be mid tier at best).

With May’s Blaziken; it put up an incredible performance against Ash’s Sceptile who even as of BF was > Swellow + Heracross based on relative performance against Spencer (I can go over it again if you’d like). Sure it was a battle type that Ash wasn’t familiar with and Blaziken has the type advantage, but still the fact that Blaziken pushed Sceptile to Overgrow and cancelled his Solarbeam which OHKed Spencer’s Claydol is honestly pretty amazing.

With Dragonite the feat that I’ll focus on is Dawn’s Mamoswine. Dawn’s Mamoswine was always portrayed as fairly strong in DP yet Dragonite “no-sold” all of its moves including the quad effective ones except for its last Take Down though still Dragonite was trying to stop that with its bare hands and didn’t even use a move. Dragonite then OHKes it with Drgon Rush (the first move it uses) in what seemed like overkill given how quickly and easily Mamoswine fainted. It makes me think that Dragonite could have ended the match whenever it wanted and was just prolonging the battle to see what was the best that Mamoswine had.

Based on the above I think May’s Blaziken and Iris’s Dragonite are rightfully the 2 strongest Pokémon of Ash’s companions (that don’t work on gag logic). I’m sure it’ll be a tough fight, but I think May and Iris should come out on top based on the superior feats of their Pokémon. It should always be kept in mind that being a Mega doesn’t automatically make you stronger than regular Pokémon unless feats and scaling also back such a comparison up.

 

[Navin]

....Like, okay? I'm aware of this. I didn't say Brock was weak though. I could have phrased it better, but my point was that Brock is a doctor now, therefore he doesn't battle as a job anymore, while Iris and May's goals involve battling. So in the time they have been gone from the main cast I would expect Dragonite and Blaziken to have had more battles than Steelix, therefore gaining more experience than him, mega evolution or not.

Perhaps, but considering how Brock has a Mega stone and how Steelix performed against Turturnator and tanked SE blows, including a Z-Move, shows that Brock is still keeping his Pokemon in battling shape.

Misty is actually an active gym leader, and continuously trains her Pokemon. The loss was far more credit to Pikachu than Mega Gyarados being weak.

Dragonite is honestly kind of overrated, and while Blaziken is really good, it's still more used to Contest Battles than trainer battles.

 

[ash&charizardfan]

Perhaps, but considering how Brock has a Mega stone and how Steelix performed against Turturnator and tanked SE blows, including a Z-Move, shows that Brock is still keeping his Pokemon in battling shape.

Misty is actually an active gym leader, and continuously trains her Pokemon. The loss was far more credit to Pikachu than Mega Gyarados being weak.

Dragonite is honestly kind of overrated, and while Blaziken is really good, it's still more used to Contest Battles than trainer battles.

Yeah I agree here I dont like misty but will give her cthat, people kind of underrate her when it comes to battling and overrate may and dawn in battling. Same with brock.

Brock's Steelix probably only won due to the fact Brock is undoubtedly more experienced than Kiawe. May's Blaziken was able to match Ash's Sceptile and Iris is the best female battler with a Dragonite that was able to tank Blizzards and Ice Beams which he has a 4x time weakness to. I'm sorry but Misty and Brock couldn't touch either of them.

Sceptile vs blaziken was a PIS match and nothing else. Lol its hard to believe that sceptile who singlehandidly won ash match with FB spenser was low on endurance by just one flamethrower and some dodge moves by recently evolved pokemon but PIS was may's speciality. Its hard to judge may's caliber but all 4 MS, MG, blaziken and dragonite are around the same level ie around high to mid tier 2. I think edge should be with mega duos since blaziken is fire type and MG is water type.

Paul vs Champions

Paul:
METHUD

vs

Lance's Dragonite
Steven's Metagross
Cynthia's Garchomp
Alder's Bouffalant
Dianthia's Gardevoir
Kukui's Incineroar

All champions will one shot whole paul's team ie six one shots. Since anime tries to portray all the champions as equal (dont think he is in there league) and with the arrival of ME surely cynthia will have MGarchomp if she ever comes which will make her even more lethal.

 

[Genaller]

I’m sorry how was Sceptile vs Blaziken PIS? That was Blaziken first battle after evolving and evolution boosts are factually very inconsistent in this show (Grovyle -> Sceptile is a pretty good example here). Blaziken pushed Sceptile that far because it was just that good (and hence meritocratically the strongest companion Pokémon); nothing more and nothing less.

Edit: Also Blaziken and Dragonite aren’t at a matchup disadvantage. Blaziken has Sky Uppercut for Mega Gyarados and literally all of its moves for Mega Steelix while Dragonite has Thunderpunch for Mega Gyarados and Flamethrower for Mega Steelix. Also note that a critical issue for May at the end of AG was that her style of battling was too close to proper trainer battles and wasn’t suited for contests. Since then she adjusted her style but that doesn’t mean that she forgot about her old style which would work great for proper trainer battles.

 

[ash&charizardfan]

I’m sorry how was Sceptile vs Blaziken PIS? That was Blaziken first battle after evolving and evolution boosts are factually very inconsistent in this show (Grovyle -> Sceptile is a pretty good example here). Blaziken pushed Sceptile that far because it was just that good (and hence meritocratically the strongest companion Pokémon); nothing more and nothing less.

Edit: Also Blaziken and Dragonite aren’t at a matchup disadvantage. Blaziken has Sky Uppercut for Mega Gyarados and literally all of its moves for Mega Steelix while Dragonite has Thunderpunch for Mega Gyarados and Flamethrower for Mega Steelix. Also note that a critical issue for May at the end of AG was that her style of battling was too close to proper trainer battles and wasn’t suited for contests. Since then she adjusted her style but that doesn’t mean that she forgot about her old style which would work great for proper trainer battles.

Blaziken vs Sceptile was PIS no matter how you look at it just like 90% of may's contests win. Are you going to call that blaziken is superior to FB spenser's shiftry+ claydol. You are forgetting that may is still a newbie, and even though evolution boost your power it does not boost so much that pokemon is able to fight with a far more experienced and powerfull opponent on equal ground. As for her being a proer battler, she was no where the battler like nrmal trainers, gym battles are more intense than contest battles and this s where brock/misty has an edge.

 

[SinnohEevee]

I think May and Iris win, given how OP Iris' Dragonite is (tanking moves it has a double weakness too as if they were nothing).

 

[Navin]

I think May and Iris win, given how OP Iris' Dragonite is (tanking moves it has a double weakness too as if they were nothing).

Brock's Mega Steelix tanked a super-effective Inferno Overdrive like a boss.

 

[Genaller]

Blaziken vs Sceptile was PIS no matter how you look at it just like 90% of may's contests win. Are you going to call that blaziken is superior to FB spenser's shiftry+ claydol. You are forgetting that may is still a newbie, and even though evolution boost your power it does not boost so much that pokemon is able to fight with a far more experienced and powerfull opponent on equal ground. As for her being a proer battler, she was no where the battler like nrmal trainers, gym battles are more intense than contest battles and this s where brock/misty has an edge.

Like I said; evolution boosts are very inconsistent. Case in point: Grovyle went from getting beaten fairly convincingly by Greta’s non-Ace Hariyama to carrying the match against an arguably most likely even stronger Frontier Brain. Besides it’s not like Cumbusken was all that weak (it was at least mid lvl). Blaziken did well because Blaziken was just that good (a.k.a the evolution boost was just that great). You can’t call “PIS” every time something in the show doesn’t conform to your beliefs. Besides how do you know that M-Steelix and M-Gyarados are on par with Blaziken and Dragonite. M-Steelix tanked a supereffective Z-move (and btw Brock said that it did hurt M-Steelix pretty badly)? Yeah sure it was narratively impressive since IIRC a successfully fully hit Z-move in every other case meant a KO (though how narratively impressive it’ll be by the end of SM will depend on how many other Z-move tanking cases we get) though regardless the quality of the opponent needs to be considered and honestly Turtonator hadn’t done anything till then to justify being above mid lvl. They just don’t have the credible feats to stand on the lvl of Blaziken and Dragonite. Not that I think the difference is too large (I’d give Blaziken and Dragonite an A rating whereas I’d give both M-Steelix and M-Gyarados either an A- or B+ rating; these ratings are based on the ones in my sig) but I do think it’s enough to secure Blaziken and Dragonite a definitive win after a good match.

 

[PokemonBattleFanatic-]

Paul
Theme
Credit goes to doctorgecko--->>>>https://www.reddit.com/r/respectthreads/comments/78gdti/respect_paul_pokemon_anime/

Background: Paul (Shinji in the original Japanese) is the main rival of Ash Ketchum during his journeys in the Sinnoh region. A year before the start of the Sinnoh series Paul recieved his first Pokemon, a Turtwig. Soon after the two watched as Paul's brother Reggie attempted to challenge Pyramid King Brandon for his frontier symbol so that Reggie could finally beat the Battle Frontier. Unfortunately Brandon managed to crush Reggie without losing a single Pokemon, and seeing this Paul began to become obsessed with only training the most powerful Pokemon. Paul then set forth on his journey, competing in the leagues of Hoenn, Johto and Kanto. And while he didn't win any of them he steadily grew in strength as a trainer. Eventually he decided to return to his home region of Sinnoh and compete in the league there. Soon after returning he encountered Ash Ketchum, and due to their conflicting trainer styles the two became rather tense rivals almost immediately. They would square off multiple times during their journeys in Sinnoh, finally culminating in the quarter finals of the Sinnoh League.

Personality: Paul in many ways could be considered the opposite to Ash Ketchum. Paul for example has no interest in training up a weak Pokemon to be strong. Rather he would prefer to just catch the strongest Pokemon possible and not deal with the weaker ones, as shown by him catching several Starly and then releasing all but the one that knew aerial ace. He also does not really treat his Pokemon as friends, and instead is rather harsh to them and can put them through rather brutal training in order to make them stronger. Beyond this he can also be rather rude to other people and Pokemon, to the point his own brother refers to him as having a cruel streak, and even Team Rocket is taken aback by his attitude. However in large part due to interactions with Ash and friends, as well as learning that Ash had done what Reggie couldn't and beaten Brandon, Paul began to grow somewhat less mean. While not exactly friendly, by the end of the series he is at least somewhat more respectful towards his Pokemon and other people.

Physicals
Being a human in the Pokemon universe, Paul has demonstrated physical capabilities well beyond what a real life 11 year old can do. While he doesn't have all that many, there are still some of note.

Reactions

• As with all trainers he's able to react to and give commands around attacks no matter how fast they are moving, though this could just be talking is a free action

Speed/Agility

• After being launched off a cliff, moves between multiple branches and rocks like a blur before sticking the landing
  
• Casually side steps out of the way of a falling Gligar
  
• Dodges a berserk Chimchar

Durability

• Takes a long fall with seemingly no injury
  
• Hit by his Electabuzz and Weavile flying into him and is fine a minute later.

Trainer Strategy/Skill

Basic Intelligence/Battle Style

• Gets a basic feel for Ash's battle style after a single battle with weak Pokemon
  
• Purposefully targets the legs of Roark's Cranidos in order to weaken it and win the battle
  
• Is entirely willing to attack his ally if it means landing a hit on his opponent
  
• Ash outright acknowledges there are no flaws in his battle strategy, and that his Pokemon recognize their roles and act accordingly
  
• After seeing Ash's counter shield strategy once, adapts it into his own strategy and then uses it against Ash.

Predicting/Outwitting

• Purposefully lets Ash go first so that his Elekid can absorb an electric attack and power itself up
  
• Uses dig to make Ash unable to tell where his attacks are coming from, and then anticipates his strategies in order to win
  
• Takes advantage of Cynthia's Garchomp using giga impact in order to land a hit on it without it being able to fight back
  
• Purposefully has an attack miss to cause Ash to become more reckless, and then leaves his Torterra open for attack so that he can lure Ash into a trap
  
• Able to predict Ash's actions in battle, and structures his team specifically to counter Ash's
  
• Purposefully battles in a way that keeps Ash from being calm, and takes advantage of his emotions to put him into bad match ups
  
• Predicts that Ash will come up with a way for Buizel to escape a trap, and uses that opportunity to land heavy blows on Ash
  
• Purposefully lets Ash's Torterra heal itself so that he can beat it in one hit and crush Ash's resolve.
  
• Intentionally let his first two Pokemon get beaten so that he could determine Ash's team and strategy, and then predict's Ash's actions for a good portion of the battle.
  
• Anticipates Ash's unusual strategies, as well as being behind him in terms of number of Pokemon

Environmental Usage

• Takes an advantage of the wind to avoid a strike from his opponent and land a hit on it
  
• When facing a ground type with an electric type, has his Pokemon attack the field to damage his foe indirectly and win the fight.

General Power

• Defeats the gym leader Maylene with basically no effort
  
• In his first league battle has a complete victory against his foe with a score of 3-0
  
• Does the same thing to Barry, switching out his Pokemon to counter the latter
  
• Cynthia (the champion of the Sinnoh region) fully excepts him to make it to the champion league.

 

[ash&charizardfan]

Like I said; evolution boosts are very inconsistent. Case in point: Grovyle went from getting beaten fairly convincingly by Greta’s non-Ace Hariyama to carrying the match against an arguably most likely even stronger Frontier Brain. Besides it’s not like Cumbusken was all that weak (it was at least mid lvl). Blaziken did well because Blaziken was just that good (a.k.a the evolution boost was just that great). You can’t call “PIS” every time something in the show doesn’t conform to your beliefs. Besides how do you know that M-Steelix and M-Gyarados are on par with Blaziken and Dragonite. M-Steelix tanked a supereffective Z-move (and btw Brock said that it did hurt M-Steelix pretty badly)? Yeah sure it was narratively impressive since IIRC a successfully fully hit Z-move in every other case meant a KO (though how narratively impressive it’ll be by the end of SM will depend on how many other Z-move tanking cases we get) though regardless the quality of the opponent needs to be considered and honestly Turtonator hadn’t done anything till then to justify being above mid lvl. They just don’t have the credible feats to stand on the lvl of Blaziken and Dragonite. Not that I think the difference is too large (I’d give Blaziken and Dragonite an A rating whereas I’d give both M-Steelix and M-Gyarados either an A- or B+ rating; these ratings are based on the ones in my sig) but I do think it’s enough to secure Blaziken and Dragonite a definitive win after a good match.

Again evolution boost doesn't mean blaziken starts matching sceptile, sceptile was heavily nerfed in that match for plot reasons. No way is sceptile going to be low on endurance after just being hit by one flame thrower. As for hariyama vs grovyle, grovyle was going on equal ground with hariyama until greta used groyvle's speed to its advantage, grovyle was always much superior to combuskin in combat experience and power. Blaziken didn't even used that strategy.

 

[Navin]

Could just be Sceptile underperforming that day and Blaziken overperforming.

Ash also had to battle more "flashy" since this was a Contest battle. Sceptile was on the aggression and knocking Blaziken around most of the fight. Sceptile had the type-disadvantage. And the battle was times out before it could end.

 

[Genaller]

Again evolution boost doesn't mean blaziken starts matching sceptile, sceptile was heavily nerfed in that match for plot reasons. No way is sceptile going to be low on endurance after just being hit by one flame thrower. As for hariyama vs grovyle, grovyle was going on equal ground with hariyama until greta used groyvle's speed to its advantage, grovyle was always much superior to combuskin in combat experience and power. Blaziken didn't even used that strategy.

You have no upper bound for how big evolution boosts can be (on that note Snowrunt -> Glalie was also a fairly large boost). Nope Sceptile wasn’t “nerfed”; Blaziken was just that good for being able to push him to Overgrow and cancel his last Solarbeam. First off; when Pokémon have close range even clashes, the shockwaves from the clashes cause damage to both Pokémon. Also by definition Blaziken’s Fire type moves on Sceptile are 4x more effective than Sceptile’s Grass type moves on Blaziken, so no kidding it needed fewer hits to push Sceptile to Overgrow. Yeah Hariyama’s win was lower mid diff at best. If you want everyone to accept that the fight was “PIS”, then you need to provide good evidence that contradicts Blaziken being able to perform at that lvl. Anyways the point is that Mega Steelix and Mega Gyarados aren’t meritocratically on Blaziken’s and Dragonite’s lvl based on feats and scaling.

 

[ash&charizardfan]

You have no upper bound for how big evolution boosts can be (on that note Snowrunt -> Glalie was also a fairly large boost). Nope Sceptile wasn’t “nerfed”; Blaziken was just that good for being able to push him to Overgrow and cancel his last Solarbeam. First off; when Pokémon have close range even clashes, the shockwaves from the clashes cause damage to both Pokémon. Also by definition Blaziken’s Fire type moves on Sceptile are 4x more effective than Sceptile’s Grass type moves on Blaziken, so no kidding it needed fewer hits to push Sceptile to Overgrow. Yeah Hariyama’s win was lower mid diff at best. If you want everyone to accept that the fight was “PIS”, then you need to provide good evidence that contradicts Blaziken being able to perform at that lvl. Anyways the point is that Mega Steelix and Mega Gyarados aren’t meritocratically on Blaziken’s and Dragonite’s lvl based on feats and scaling.

The main difference is that glalie was talented and strong even as a snorunt, it even created trouble for pikachu in its capture episode not to mention it had trouble in learning ice beam becase it could not control its power which robert mentioned. Ofcourse after evolution it became a monster. Unlike torchic which was a weakling and didn't do anything, even combuskin was not that special, no way evolution boost will boost it that high. Not always evolution boost a pokemon noivern, goodra and torterra are prime examples of pokemon who were still underwhelming and weak even after evolution. Also sceptile is x weaker to fire moves, even ithen he is far superior to blaziken at that time, heck even in SL sceptile was hit by far effective dream eater and super effective ice beam from E4 caliber legendary darkrai but still didn't activate overgrow, and blaziken didn't hit sceptile even once after that FT sceptile dominated him afterwards and it was on defensive. Sceptile was hit hard by darkrai than by blaziken yet it didn't activate overgrow against darkrai, so by your logic blaziken> darkrai. I dont have to give proof whether it was PIS or not you can even see by watching may's contest wins as most of them are full of PIS.

As for MS nd MG vs blaziken & dragonite, both brock and misty are far intense battler than may could ever will be. Contest battles are nowhere near as intense as gym or league matches are.

 

[Genaller]

Those “prime” examples are exactly why evolution boosts are so inconsistent. Combusken looked pretty cool against Drew’s Absol, but whatever. Sceptile is hit by Fire type moves with 2x effectiveness. Blaziken is hit by Grass type moves with .5x effectiveness. I’ll let you work out what the relative effectiveness should be. SL Sceptile > BF Sceptile; it’s not that complicated. Also Overgrow doesn’t even activate every time Treecko/Grovyle/Sceptile is low on health (anime =\= games). Like I said close range even move clashing can also result in damage being dealt. It’s not “PIS” because it doesn’t explicitly contradict anything shown in the anime. M-S and M-G don’t have the feats/scaling to beat Blaziken and Dragonite; believe whatever you want.

EDIT: Blaziken >>>>> Turtonator and based on Brock’s comment M-Steelix beat Z-move Turtonator with high diff, so yeah Blaziken is gonna roast M-Steelix alive. Misty’s M-Gyarados had an overwhelming field advantage yet still got owned by Pikachu. Yeah these fan service Megas have no right being compared to Pokémon who got to that lvl through earned feats against credible opponents (whom Kiawe surely isn’t).

EDIT2: Dragonite wasn’t battling optimally against Krookodile not to mention that Krookodile is definitively PAD’s consensus for Ash’s #7 spot. Dragonite’s performance against Drayden’s Druddigon (where it didn’t battle optimally), Ash’s Charizard, and Clair’s Druddigon doesn’t undermine the scaling from the Mamoswine feat whatsoever since those Pokémon have no cap (a.k.a upper bound in strength) ergo they were just that good for being able to outperform Dragonite like they did. Even if Sceptile beats Blaziken the majority of times, the fact that Blaziken can push it to Overgrow and cancel his strongest attack speaks volumes. Dragonite and Blaziken decisively beat the overhyped fan service

 

[Navin]

M-S and M-G don’t have the feats/scaling to beat Blaziken and Dragonite; believe whatever you want.

Dragonite lost to Krookodile, would have lost with one more hit by Charizard, lost to Drayden's Druddigon, and lost to Clair's Druddigon; it's semi-overrated. Blakizen is good when considering how it fared against Sceptile, but in a finished non-Contest trainer battle, Sceptile would handily defeat it majority of the time.

It's unfair to say Blaziken/Dragonite have better "feats" when (Mega) Gyarados and (Mega) Steelix only appeared once in SM after a long time.

Mega Gyarados was clearly not depicted as weak-sauce, and losing to Pikachu (especially with how relatively consistently good Pikachu has been shown lately) is not a bad loss whatsoever, and Ash battled well in that episode. Plus, Gyarados was in type-disadvantage, and the battlefield was water, which would conduct an Electric-type Z-Move and make it even more potent. Misty is an active gym leader who trains her Pokemon continuously, and gets challengers all the time. Mega Gyarados has two SE moves and a Rain Dance effective against Blaziken.

Mega Steelix was shown as an absolute juggernaut, tanking SE moves, including a Fire-type Z-Move head-on and still winning. It definitely won't have an issue tanking Blaziken's moves. Brock clearly kept on his training, and he's much more experienced and knowledgeable than either Iris or May when it comes to trainer battles.

 

[Genaller]

End of BF Ash vs Tyson:

BF Sceptile vs Shiftry -> BF Sceptile
BF Sceptile vs Donhpan -> BF Sceptile
BF Sceptile vs Hariyama -> BF Sceptile
BF Sceptile vs Sceptile -> BF Sceptile
BF Sceptile vs Metagross -> Draw (either way the winner gets easily RKed)
Regice Peakachu vs Meowth -> Regice Peakachu with mid difficulty

BF Ash wins 6-1 comfortably. End of BF Ash would sh1t on everyone in the Hoenn League.

Paul vs Tyson:

Torterra vs Shiftry -> Torterra
Torterra vs Donhpan -> Torterra
Torterra vs Hariyama -> Torterra
Torterra vs Sceptile -> Torterra
Torterra vs Metagross -> Torterra
Torterra vs Meowth -> Meowth
(Motordrive) Electivire vs Meowth -> Motodrive Electivire with lower mid diff

Paul makes Tyson his b1tch.

Final Note: I made a poll elsewhere (that has a far larger user base than over here) on Sawyer vs Tyson and Sawyer destroyed with 77.5% of the vote; only in PAD is the guy who barely beat HL Ash so grotesquely overrated.

 

[Navin]

Paul makes Tyson his b1tch.

Final Note: I made a poll elsewhere (that has a far larger user base than over here) on Sawyer vs Tyson and Sawyer destroyed with 77.5% of the vote; only in PAD is the guy who barely beat HL Ash so grotesquely overrated.

Are you still this insecure about the overall opinion here that you have to bring it up again? ^ The guy who says he doesn't care about popular opinion has to cite another random forum where people happen agree to him to validate his opinion even though I'm sure if they got the same arguments that PAD got from users who actually watched the series back during AG, they would probably change their mind too.

 

[Genaller]

I forgot some .

Current Charizard vs Tyson: Charizard sweeps mid diff. Current Peakachu vs Tyson: Peakachu sweeps mid diff. Ash-Greninja vs Tyson: Ash-Greninja fodder stomps. Also of course: Remo vs Tyson: Remo wins 6-5. You know you suck when a certified jobber like Remo can take you (though to be fair Alain’s MC-X would eviscerate Tyson’s full team).

I would love to discuss these results with anyone except of course those who are on my ignore list (look at Page 7 of the Ash-Greninja thread to know who 2 of those people are). If anyone not my ignore list thinks that someone on my ignore list made a reasonable point that contrasts with one of mine, then let me know and I’ll explain the fallacy in their reasoning in as much detail as needed .