Versus Thread

[keepitsimple]

Navin apparently wants someone to revive Versus and keeps bringing it up in other threads so I remade it. You're welcome.
*Edit* Oh, apparently he wasn't serious. Well too late. It's back anyway.

So yeah post hypothetical battles here and discuss how they would play out, except just don't do whatever got the other thread closed. Other than that, have fun.

Do I have to post a match up? If so, Ash's Torterra vs Trip's Serperior. Has that been debated already?

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Banned topics!

- Popular opinion, including polls and general opinion on sppf and other websites. This also includes the Anime Awards. Bringing this up contributes nothing of value to any discussion as popular opinion isn't always right. Having a lot of people agree with you doesn't affect the quality of your argument. It's also kind of changing the topic from the show to the fandom.

 

[Genaller]

LMAO... I was going to make a V2 after SM ended though okay this works too as long as the mods don’t shut it down. Trip’s Serperior easily beats Ash’s Torterra due to an overwhelming speed advantage (just like how he beat Pignite).

You want a match? How about Ash’s entire Pokémon roster including Primeape, Lapras, Butterfree and Pidgeot (so 43 in total) vs The 6 Pokemon Gary used against Ash in the JL along with his Umreon and Electivire + Tyson’s full team + The 3 Pokemon Barry used against Paul in the SL + The 3 Pokémon Conway used against Ash in the SL + Paul’s SL team against Ash along with his Magmortar, Ursaring, Torterra, Honchkrow and Weavile + Sawyer’s full team + Alain’s full team but his Charizard can’t use ME. 43 vs 43!!; WHICH SIDE WILL TRIUMPH IN THIS ULTIMATE BATTLE!!!???

 

[Frozocrone]

LMAO... I was going to make a V2 after SM ended though okay this works too as long as the mods don’t shut it down. Trip’s Serperior easily beats Ash’s Torterra due to an overwhelming speed advantage (just like how he beat Pignite).

You want a match? How about Ash’s entire Pokémon roster including Primeape, Lapras, Butterfree and Pidgeot (so 43 in total) vs The 6 Pokemon Gary used against Ash in the JL along with his Umreon and Electivire + Tyson’s full team + The 3 Pokemon Barry used against Paul in the SL + The 3 Pokémon Conway used against Ash in the SL + Paul’s SL team against Ash along with his Magmortar, Ursaring, Torterra, Honchkrow and Weavile + Sawyer’s full team + Alain’s full team but his Charizard can’t use ME. 43 vs 43!!; WHICH SIDE WILL TRIUMPH IN THIS ULTIMATE BATTLE!!!???

Uhh...who is battling with the rival Pokemon? Just one trainer or rotate out as and when it's their Pokemon?

Also why not Mega Charizard X? I imagine Ash gets access to his powerhouse mons (Zikachu, AG, Blaze Infernape) and the like, so why limit Alain?

 

[Xenon Blue]

I wouldn't say Trip's Serperior easily beats Ash's Torterra. Serperior doesn't have the power to demolish Torterra in a few hits, which means Torterra is free to Synthesis for the most part and take a hit. Suicide mountain is surprisingly not bad in this situation also since speed is no good when you are trapped on top of a mountain, and like stated before Serperior lacks the power to contest Torterra heading straight towards it. However Serperior will probably still come out on top since it's so fast it might be able to just avoid getting caught by the rising floor from Rock Climb, though it wouldn't be easy. Torterra really only needs one solid hit to create an opening, and Leaf Storm doesn't seem to be an easy move to dodge, plus it can be used to clash with Solar Beam no problem.

 

[Genaller]

Uhh...who is battling with the rival Pokemon? Just one trainer or rotate out as and when it's their Pokemon?

Also why not Mega Charizard X? I imagine Ash gets access to his powerhouse mons (Zikachu, AG, Blaze Infernape) and the like, so why limit Alain?

Rotates out depending on the Pokémon.

I’m limiting it to 1 Mega(-ish) Pokémon per team.

............

Yeah no Torterra does no better than Pignite a.k.a it isn’t landing a single hit. Also Synthesis results in Torterra being very vulnerable during and immediately after the move which would allow Serperior to land critical hits making Torterra even worse off than before (just like with Paul). Final answer: Serpeior with no damage, but notable stamina drain from having to dodge Torterra’s attacks + likely needing several hits to get the KO.

 

[PokemonBattleFanatic-]

AJ Styles Paul's Torterra vs Sawyer's Sceptile Shinsuke Nakamura who wins in a 1 on 1 battle? WrestleMania

 

[Navin]

Bruh, I wasn't being 100% serious...honestly think this might be shut down too.

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I wouldn't say Trip's Serperior easily beats Ash's Torterra. Serperior doesn't have the power to demolish Torterra in a few hits, which means Torterra is free to Synthesis for the most part and take a hit. Suicide mountain is surprisingly not bad in this situation also since speed is no good when you are trapped on top of a mountain, and like stated before Serperior lacks the power to contest Torterra heading straight towards it. However Serperior will probably still come out on top since it's so fast it might be able to just avoid getting caught by the rising floor from Rock Climb, though it wouldn't be easy. Torterra really only needs one solid hit to create an opening, and Leaf Storm doesn't seem to be an easy move to dodge, plus it can be used to clash with Solar Beam no problem.

Honestly if Torterra just doesn't do Suicide Mountain, I'd favor it in a bunch of match-ups.

 

[Genaller]

AJ Styles Paul's Torterra vs Sawyer's Sceptile Shinsuke Nakamura who wins in a 1 on 1 battle? WrestleMania

Sceptile has the net move advantage since Torterra is hit neutrally by Grass type moves whereas Scepitle is nve by Grass type moves. Sceptile also has a better Frenzy Plant since its Frenzy Plant doesn’t have a recharge time unlike Torterra’s. A lot of this will depend on how effectively you think Torterra can control Frenzy Plant since we know it was practicing in DP 100 though we’ve never seen it used with a high lvl of control in an official match. A counter for Torterra could be to use its excellent Stone Edge control to strike Sceptile while tanking the smashing from the Frenzy Plant wines (basically take a hit to dish a hit) though Stone Edge will still have to outmaneuver through the remaining wines (presumably Sawyer would keep some in reserve in order to guard Sceptile). Ultimately I’m not sure who’s gonna come out on top though this match will most certainly tear the house down just like Styles vs Nakamura will at Wrestlemania .

 

[345ash-greninja]

AJ Styles Paul's Torterra vs Sawyer's Sceptile Shinsuke Nakamura who wins in a 1 on 1 battle? WrestleMania

If Sawyer's Sceptile battles in its base form then it'd be a very close match where Torterra could possibly win, but if Sceptile Mega Evolves then Torterra looses pretty decisively.

Don't get me wrong, Paul's Torterra is strong and was confirmed to be Paul's strongest Pokemon prior to the League, and has 4 regions of experience, and has the capability of taking out Brandon's weaker Regis (Registeel/Regice) in a 1 vs 1 battle, but it literally doesn't keep up to the power creep the Kalos League showed, and Sawyer and Sceptile's massive and rapid progression prior to the League. This was actually layer supported by the fact when after the League in the episode where Ash and Sawyer met for the final time, Sawyer himself said that he was being mentored by Hoenn Champion Steven Stone prior to the League (from whom he got the Mega Stone probably IIRC). It obviously means a lot when a freaking Champion is mentoring you.

 

[ash&charizardfan]

AJ Styles Paul's Torterra vs Sawyer's Sceptile Shinsuke Nakamura who wins in a 1 on 1 battle? WrestleMania

If sawyer has an access to ME then MS wins in a close match otherwise torterra wins mid diff.

Bruh, I wasn't being 100% serious...honestly think this might be shut down too.

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Honestly if Torterra just doesn't do Suicide Mountain, I'd favor it in a bunch of match-ups.

Even without suicide mountain, I say his torterra is underwhelming, in all matches he had lost he was destroyed in either a single shot or two shots, that just means his endurance is pretty low just like in case of goodra which is not right since torterra's as a species are slow moving and hence should have high endurance.

 

[Genaller]

Matchup: Siebold’s Mega Blastoise vs Cynthia’s Garchomp.

 

[TheWanderingMist]

Matchup: Siebold’s Mega Blastoise vs Cynthia’s Garchomp.

Likelihood of Cynthia having somehow obtained Garchompite is very high, so there's no real power discrepancy. Since the E4 seem to somewhat regularly battle the Champion for their title, they're probably on par with each other in terms of intelligence and skill, though Cynthia likely has more experience. This is a tough call, though if Blastoise has an Ice type move, it'll be a very uphill match for either version of Garchomp, whereas Garchomp rarely has an Electric or Grass move. On the other hand, Garchomp has a monstrous Attack stat once mega evolved, more than enough to negate Blastoise's defense boost.

I'd say pyrrhic victory for either side.

 

[Navin]

If sawyer has an access to ME then MS wins in a close match otherwise torterra wins mid diff.

Mega Sceptile is overrated; Ash's regular Sceppy is better. Paul's Torterra's superior defense would prevail IMO, though agree it would be a close battle.

Even without suicide mountain, I say his torterra is underwhelming, in all matches he had lost he was destroyed in either a single shot or two shots, that just means his endurance is pretty low just like in case of goodra which is not right since torterra's as a species are slow moving and hence should have high endurance.

Well, didn't help that all of its opponents were quality and Suicide Mountain just always made it so Torterra got thrown off or pushed down a cliff. Just wish they bring back Torterra as a reserve and do it right by giving it the win it deserves.

 

[345ash-greninja]

Mega Sceptile is overrated; Ash's regular Sceppy is better. Paul's Torterra's superior defense would prevail IMO, though agree it would be a close battle.

Mega Sceptile is overrated; says the guy who judges every Pokemon's feats by wins/draws. And still Paul's Torterra prevails despite that fact that Mega Sceptile clearly has better wins on-screen beyond a shadow of doubt compared to Paul's Torterra.

Well, didn't help that all of its opponents were quality and Suicide Mountain just always made it so Torterra got thrown off or pushed down a cliff. Just wish they bring back Torterra as a reserve and do it right by giving it the win it deserves.

Torterra was badly screwed every time mostly due to DP Ash's fault. He always tended to use Suicide Mountain at a very wrong time of the battles, whenever Torterra gained the upper hand over its opponents, like against Paul's Drapion and Volkner's Electivire, and screwed Torterra over in the process.

Torterra was clearly gaining the upper hand against using Leaf Storm and Energy Ball, when DP Ash suddenly decided to use Suicide Mountain for no reason which completely turned the tide of the battle. Similar against Volkner's Electivire too, where Torterra scored a clean hit before Suicide Mountain led to an instant loss. He had previous experience in the Bertha/Volkner battle that Suicide Mountain sucks on Torterra and he foolishly still decided to use it in the Sinnoh League battle.

If Torterra does somehow return in a future battle, I hope that the future incarnation of Ash would use him better than DP, and avoid using Suicide Mountain.

 

[SH65]

Ash's full power Pikachu with Z-move vs Misty

Ash's full power Charizard vs Iris

Ash-Greninja vs Dawn

 

[Genaller]

Ash's full power Pikachu with Z-move vs Misty

Clean sweep unless Psyduck activates hax mode.

Ash's full power Charizard vs Iris

Clean sweep

Ash-Greninja vs Dawn

Clean sweep

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Just to clarify; my assessment of Paul’s Torterra vs Sawyer’s Sceptile above was exclusively with base Sceptile. Mega Sceptile would win mid difficulty since it gave a tough fight to a Pokémon on the upper end of the Champion Base Ace spectrum whereas Torterra got fodderised by a Pokémon also on the upper end of the Champion Base Ace spectrum (when said Pokémon didn’t have immobility issues from a previous battle anyways). If anyone disagrees with that, then they can take a shot at refuting my argument in “The Official Ash-Greninja Discussion Thread”.

 

[SH65]

Ash's Full power Infurnape vs May

Mallow vs Lillie vs Lana

Ash full power Sceptile vs Dawn and Misty

 

[345ash-greninja]

Ash's Full power Infurnape vs May

Clearly sweep with only May's Blaziken putting up a decent fight.

Mallow vs Lillie vs Lana

Mallow has no chance. Probably Lana since Popplio has a Z-move, plus it also won against Totem Wishiwashi.

Ash full power Sceptile vs Dawn and Misty

In a 1 vs 6 match overall? Sceptile clean sweeps, though maybe Mega Gyarados can do a bit of damage on a good day.

 

[Genaller]

Ash's Full power Infurnape vs May

May’s Blaziken (honestly the strongest companion Pokémon) might be able to push Infernape to Blaze state but that’s as far as it goes. The rest don’t stand a chance.

Mallow vs Lillie vs Lana

Hydro Vortex gg.

Ash full power Sceptile vs Dawn and Misty

If Sceptile has to go through 12 Pokémon then stamina drain will likely become an issue. The only 2 Pokémon capable of dealing damage to a fresh Sceptile are Misty’s Mega Gyarados and maybe Dawn’s Mamoswine. It’ll be difficult due to the stamina drain such an endevour will take though Sceptile should still win in all cases barring those where Psyduck activates hax mode.

 

[345ash-greninja]

May’s Blaziken (honestly the strongest companion Pokémon) might be able to push Infernape to Blaze state but that’s as far as it goes. The rest don’t stand a chance.


Hydro Vortex gg.


If Sceptile has to go through 12 Pokémon then stamina drain will likely become an issue. The only 2 Pokémon capable of dealing damage to a fresh Sceptile are Misty’s Mega Gyarados and maybe Dawn’s Mamoswine. It’ll be difficult due to the stamina drain such an endevour will take though Sceptile should still win in all cases barring those where Psyduck activates hax mode.

TBH where do you place Hax Psyduck? I'd honestly say it could even be close to the Tier 0 spectrum, considering how it owned Kingler.