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[VGC 2018] [Xurkitree], Electric Type Stand

Discussion in '7th Gen RMT' started by ninijatt, Mar 17, 2018.

  1. ninijatt

    ninijatt Half, ninja, half cat, all attitude

    Hey guys, I'm back again. After taking a break last year, I'm getting back in the ring with VGC. I see it's gotten a little more lievely around here, not like it used to be in 2012-2013 but it seems to be getting better. It's not the ghost town it was in 2016 anymore at least.

    Anyway, let's get into the team.

    The Team

    https://imgur.com/sPrPopV

    Xurkitree @ Iapapa Berry
    Ability: Beast Boost
    Level: 50
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
    Quiet Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Tail Glow
    - Discharge
    - Dazzling Gleam
    - Protect

    Last year, I thought Xurkitree would be among the most popular Pokemon, part of the new big 6. "It's so good", I thought it myself. So when that didn't happen, I knew I had to be the one. I have to champion Xurkitree, I gotta rep my boy when no one else will. Yes, I really am that stubborn, I am doing this purely due to my orginal observation at the start of 2017. I can see Xurkitree's potential when no one else can, I can be his hero! Folks over at Pokemon Showdown have mocked me for using Xurkitree but I'll show them, I'll show them all! Anyway, Xurkitree is a bit tricky. As you can see I'm using a slow Xuritree to use in trick room. Before you tell me that's a bad idea, almost everything you want to worry about, is faster than Xurkitree. The only things tha'll outspeed you in trick room, are Pokemon that are specifically slow like Snorlax and Stakataka. In which case, you simply don't set up trick room and outspeed them with your natural speed. Xurkitree's main mission is to nuke everything on the field at once. Rellly just get rid of everyone ASAP but he can't do it alone.....


    https://imgur.com/fu4G62S

    Oranguru @ Sitrus Berry
    Ability: Telepathy
    Level: 50
    EVs: 252 HP / 172 Def / 84 SpD
    Sassy Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Psychic
    - Instruct
    - Trick Room
    - Protect

    Oranguru is our trick room setter but he does something special that no other trick room master can do. He can use instruct! This ties in to what makes Xurkitree so great. With instruct, you can get 2 tail glows off in a single turn to max Xurkitree's special attack. After that, it's a non-stop assault! Very few things will survive a hit from a +6 Xurkitree, but the ones that can survive a Discharge or a Dazzling Gleam, won't be surviving two! Once this gets going, the entire field is usually cleared per turn and it's extremely hard to stop. Oh, and since he has Telepathy, he won't be getting hurt from Discharge which is very nice.

    I went with Sitrus Berry over Pinch Berry and Mental Herb because I find the eariler proc gives more reliable bulk than pinch berry and the extra bulk is defintely work leaving the mental herb at home.



    https://imgur.com/qausA3D

    Tapu Lele @ Wiki Berry
    Ability: Psychic Surge
    EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    Modest Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Psyshock
    - Moonblast
    - Calm Mind
    - Protect

    So that's all fine and dandy but what hapens if someone brings a priority move to the party? Gee, that'd really put a damper on things, huh? Well, let's just stop that with Tapu Lele's Psychic Terrain. It also helps that Tapu Lele is a good special attacker by itself too! If you're wondering why it has max speed investment, it's because that trick room won't last forever and Oranguru last long enough to put a second one up. If all my pokemon were slow, I'd be screwed. So consider this the fast pokemon backup plan.

    https://imgur.com/bjwyJPj

    Wishiwashi-School @ Aguav Berry
    Ability: Schooling
    Level: 50
    EVs: 132 HP / 99 Def / 252 SpA / 25 SpD
    Quiet Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Muddy Water
    - Ice Beam
    - Tearful Look
    - Protect

    So I need something to handle Landorus. A water type would definitely bring good coverage. Wishiwashi is slow so it works in trick room, it's also bulky enough to stand up to Landorus outside the trick room too. Not noly that, but it's special attack is high enough to guarantee the OHKO on assualt vest Landorus with ice beam. Everyone else needs choice specs to do that. Other pokemon I tested were Tapu Fini, which needed choice specs to OHKO AV Lando, Blastoise which has amazing coverage but as much as I wanted to use it, fell short vs asualt vest unfortunately and Feraligatr which was a physical option but needed dragon dance and Wishiwashi's pure offense and bulk was in the end, too good to pass up. Maybe these options look better to you than they do to me, let me know what you think.

    I use Tearful Look which LOOKS weird and I don't use it too often but Wishiwashi has a rock bottom movepool and it was either that or Earthquake which would hurt me more than help. Despite it all, when I use Tearful Look, it comes through and it's actually pretty handy in certain situations.

    https://imgur.com/aIQtEWX

    Marowak-Alola @ Thick Club
    Ability: Lightning Rod
    EVs: 164 HP / 252 Atk / 60 Def / 28 SpD / 4 Spe
    Careful Nature
    - Flare Blitz
    - Shadow Bone
    - Brick Break
    - Protect

    Not a lot to say about Marowak. It's a good physical attacker that is immune to electric thanks to Lightning Rod so it won't get hurt by Discharge. I was torn between Brick Break and Bonemerang but in the end I decided Brick Break gives better coverage. I dunno, what do you think?

    https://imgur.com/7fJ5qtZ

    Snorlax @ Figy Berry
    Ability: Gluttony
    Level: 50
    EVs: 244 HP / 252 Def / 12 SpD
    Relaxed Nature
    - Belly Drum
    - Recycle
    - Return
    - High Horsepower

    Finally, we have Snorlax. I thought, I should have at least ONE "meta" pokemon on my team and it was a hard choice between Snorlax or Tapu Koko . I literally flipped a coin on it and ended up with Snorlax. This is a pretty standard set so you probably already know what it does. I think it's good to have another physical attacker on the team and High Horsepower gives me back the coverage I might have felt I lost with not using Bonemerang on Marowak. Also, I've been waiting for the day Snorlax would become meta again. 2018 is a great year, man. What do you guys think? I made a good decision going with Snorlax or would Tapu Koko be a better fit on my team.

    The Bench

    I always like to show pokemon that didn't quite make the cut so you can get a vague idea for my teambuilding process and that last spot with Snorlax was had a lot of good contenders. I mentioed other contenders for Wishiwashi's spot but I won't be posting those just for the sake of keeeping this section brief. Also, if there's something here that you think should be on the team, you can tell me "Hey, I think you were on to something with that, you should use your old idea"

    https://imgur.com/4Uk9wVx

    Ditto @ Lum Berry
    Ability: Imposter
    Level: 50
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
    Bold Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Transform

    First is Ditto who I felt like you could just slap him onto any team. The EV spread is weird because I used used Showdown's auto EV function. Why not when all I need is HP anyway? Other than that, I think Ditto is self expanatory, he's Ditto.

    https://imgur.com/1J8kYWc

    Metagross @ Metagrossite
    Ability: Clear Body
    Level: 50
    EVs: 124 HP / 116 Atk / 4 Def / 12 SpD / 252 Spe
    Adamant Nature
    - Stomping Tantrum
    - Meteor Mash
    - Protect
    - Zen Headbutt

    Next we have Metagross who I wanted to try because everyone has been raving about him. He's good but I felt he didn't really give me what I needed for my team. I dunno, what do you think?

    https://imgur.com/bUU58EL

    Alakazam @ Alakazite
    Ability: Magic Guard
    Level: 50
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Psychic
    - Shadow Ball
    - Focus Blast
    - Protect

    Alakazam is actually amazing. He's really great in this year's format. There's so many good abilities floating around like Intimidate to trace, he's faster than literally everything so he's good backup when trick room ends and he packs a huge wallop with good coverage. What was the problem? It felt redundant to have him on the same team as Tapu Lele and while he's a better pokemon for pure offense, I still needed Lele for Psychic Surge. Although, Alakazam does benefit a lot from the boosted STAB from Psychic Terrain, when I can only bring 4 pokemon, I'm not sure I'd want both of them when I could bring another pokemon for better type coverage. I don't know, what do you think?

    https://imgur.com/Dtk3d4G

    Tapu Koko @ Life Orb
    Ability: Electric Surge
    Level: 50
    EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    Hasty Nature
    - Dazzling Gleam
    - Thunderbolt
    - Sky Drop
    - Nature's Madness

    And our final bench warmer is Tapu Koko. I think in my heart, I really want to use Tapu Koko as I gave him more second chances than anyone else but I feel he runs into a similar problem as Alakazam. Although unlike Alakazam, he comes with extra ultility with Electric Surge which Xurkitree LOVES and also Spore has become something of an annoyance for me so sleep immunity is also nice. I went with Hasty so he could do a little extra damage with Sky Drop which just miiight be enough to close the gap for a KO considering even with max investment in Special Attack, Tapu Koko has such high physical attack, it's only a 9 point difference with Hasty nature. I also ran Nature's Madness because its utility is nice and it also ruins the day of Belly Drummers like Snorlax and Azumarill. But yeah, that's my Tapu Koko.

    That's the last of my bench warmers. Let me know if I made the right choice with Snorlax or not if one of these guys would be better.

    Conclusion

    Yeah, so that's the team. Type coverage, I think is the main theme as almost every memeber of the team aside from Oranguru is an offensive threat of different types. Also trick room. That's another theme. Anyway, that's all folks. I'm actually pretty dang tired while I write this so please xcuse any sloppyness and also I aplogize if the images seem unecessary (or if they don't work, I can only use one attachment per post so I had to try a different approach). I usually just use the Pokesmiles built into the fourms when buidling teams since you're supposed to have a visual aid for each member of your team but those only go up to gen 5 as far as I can tell and other than Snorlax, my entire team is gen 7 pokemon. But anyway, that's all for now. See ya.
     
  2. EKZ1505

    EKZ1505 Trust The Process

    Pretty cool team, and I’m not sure why people on showdown were mocking you, as Trick Room Xurk teams had some success winning a few VGC17 tournaments (or at least placing highly). One general thought is to give your min speed-nature Pokes a 0 speed IV to maximize their potential under Trick Room (unless you hope to outspeed mirror matches without TR), and you also really need could use a mega and especially a z move on the team. Without either, you’re generally putting yourself at a great disadvantage to your opponent.

    Xurkitree’s base spread isn’t bad, but likely could be improved. The special attack investment is definitely overkill with even one Tail Glow up, and I know most TR Xurkitree had a good amount of investment in bulk. I don’t have a spread to suggest off the top of my head, but there’s a few team reports out there if you wanna look into it. Surviving some of the most popular attacks in the format is a good place to start, and adding an Intimidate user could help as well. I know you have two immunities, but I would really recommend Thunderbolt over Discharge.

    Oranguru looks good, but what is the spread built to survive (especially since you’ve chosen Sitrus over a pinch berry)? You could also really use something better to help you set up Trick Room since you are very Taunt-weak, such as a Fake Out user.

    Lele seems a little out of place but is ok. I don’t really think it needs the Calm Mind boosts to be a threat due to its terrain, but the successful ones used previously are typically much bulkier. It’s fine if you want to keep it as part of your “fast” mode, but honestly right now if it’s the fastest Pokemon on your team, I would just go full Trick Room. A Quiet Lele should actually underspeed Tapu Fini, ensuring your terrain goes up. Choice Specs is a common item on such a spread (Life Orb can work too), but Lele is a prime candidate to have your z move. Why did you choose Psyshock over Psychic too?

    Wishiwashi is outclassed by a number of other water types honestly, but this spread needs a tiny bit of work. The defenses should be 100 and 24, but even then you are wasting 4 EVs unfortunately. What does this spread survive anyway? I don’t think Tearful Look is worth it on a Pokemon that will want to be attacking. A single-target water move is probably better. Scald won’t miss and will be there for when you need an attack to guarantee damage, though Hydro Pump’s power is worth considering. Surf is also actually a decent option should you keep Telepathy.

    What does Marowak’s spread survive? What do you use Brick Break for generally?

    As for your bench candidates…
    Why Lum Berry on Ditto? Scarf or maybe Sash are probably the only two worthwhile options. I don’t think Ditto is reliable in doubles only because you have to copy what is directly across you, but it is a fun option. To build off of showdown’s set, you’ll actually want a Relaxed nature with a zero speed IV if possible should you ever run into the mirror lol but that is a very specifc scenario that rarely happens.

    Metagross is arguably the best mega in the format right now, and works great alongside Lele, which is why it’s so common. Bringing this onto your team fulfills your need for a mega and would give you a reason to actually have a “fast” mode. What does this EV spread do though?

    Alakazam is bad honestly. If you add it to the team, you really need to support it well, and you’re absolutely correct that Lele is generally better.

    Koko would also be great for a fast mode. You really need Protect unless you’re going to be Specs or AV though. You’re right that the terrain GREATLY helps your Amoongus problem. I would recommend a set with Volt Switch to help you set up terrain and back into a teammate as you set up Trick Room. The AV set is actually really good for this, as you can fit on Sky Drop to help with TR setujp, but the z move would also be perfect here to take out a threat while setting up TR.

    The team is off to a good start, you just need to know what your EV spreads do and decide whether you want full TR, or to add the fast mode. It’s going to be even more common than it already was due to its HA being available, but Incineroar is going to fit well on just about any TR team due to Fake Out, its offensive presence once TR goes up, its bulk, and of course Intimidate, which greatly helps your Lele and Oranguru. Is there anything specific you have trouble with?
     
  3. ninijatt

    ninijatt Half, ninja, half cat, all attitude

    I know right? Showdown can be so toxic. I used max speed IVs when testing because there's no guarantee I can get 0 speed IVs in-game as 0 IVs are much harder to get than 31 ivs. I had to make sure my team worked in a worst case scenario.

    To be perfectly honest about the EV spreads, I just asked around for recommendations on showdown stuck with them. If you can suggest anything better, I'm all ears.

    As for the Z move, I avoided using them on purpose. My reason is actually a little embarrassing. I'm not far enough in to USUM to have access to any of the tools needed and I don't have the time to make progress. So I had to set in place a rule that I can't use Z moves or move tutor because I simply don't have access to them, I build my team in SM.

    Would you absolutely recommend Quiet for Lele? The problem with going full trick room is that if something goes wrong, and I'm left without trick room, I'm a sitting duck. I use Psyshock to deal with threats like Snorlax that have weaker physical defense than special defense.I feel like Lele is best with calm mind since it counters a lot of special based threats like Zapdos, Koko and Fini by buffing special defense and I also feel it doesn't have enough strength to OHKO without the sp. Attack boost. What would you recommend in it's place?

    I use Brick Break for coverage on Marowak to deal with threats like Tyranitar, Stakataka and Incineroar.

    I don't really think a mega is too important since I don't seem to have a lot of trouble facing them. I tried Incineroar but I ran into another Alakazam situation where I felt it was redundant to have alongside Marowak since they both provide nearly identical type coverage.

    So I assume you think I should drop Snorlax? Which bench warmer would you think I'd benefit most from, if so? You seem to favor Koko and Megagross so if you had to choose, which of the three would you go with?

    I put Lum Berry on Ditto to deal with Spore.

    Probably my biggest problem is that if Oranguru goes down before it can set up trick room, I'm left severely hurt. If I had to name one thing as the biggest issue it would be Black Hole Eclipse which is most commonly run on Tyranitar OHKOs Oranguru. My answer to thisv was Snorlax which OHKOs Tyranitar with High Horsepower.
     
  4. EKZ1505

    EKZ1505 Trust The Process

    I would really try to find out what the spreads do if you’re gonna compete seriously (though the lack of a z move or mega hurts as well :/ ), even if it’s just one or two specific things, as it could be built for something outdated (like common threats for VGC17) or with terrain control (which you don’t have against opposing Lele). Wishiwashi’s spread just doesn’t make sense though. With such a tiny HP stat compared to its other defenses, it should be much more efficient to invest max HP.

    Quiet Lele is great for TR setup (since you win the terrain war against Fini), but the problem is you’re already currently at a big disadvantage if your opponent stops TR anyway. There’s no true “fast” mode right now, and the only support to help TR go up is Psychic Terrain, IF you have terrain control.

    If I was adding it, Incineroar wouldn’t be next to Marowak, it would be instead of it. Other than better attack, Marowak is generally outclassed.

    Snorlax is fine if you can support it well (which it isn’t right now without TR up since there’s no Fake Out or redirection, but it’s fine it you choose to go full TR or drop something else (not a fan of Wishiwashi)). At this point I would either add a fast mon or two, or fully commit to TR by adding a 2nd TR user, especially one that can deal with strong dark attacks (Porygon2 is vastly underrated, but maybe Mimikyu, Stakataka, or something else interests you), or adding something like Fake Out support.
     
  5. ninijatt

    ninijatt Half, ninja, half cat, all attitude

    I did some calcs and fixed up the EVs of the team. Here are the changes I made:

    Oranguru @ Sitrus Berry
    Ability: Telepathy
    Level: 50
    EVs: 252 HP / 172 Def / 84 SpD
    Sassy Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Psychic
    - Instruct
    - Trick Room
    - Protect

    I decided to keep Oranguru just as it is, since it survives just about any dark type move that isn't a z-move. Unfortunately, even with max investment and a +def nature, it cannot survive a dark type z move which is unfortunate. So I think this EV spread is as good as it's going to get.
    252+ Atk Incineroar Darkest Lariat vs. 252 HP / 172 Def Oranguru: 146-174 (74.1 - 88.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    252 Atk Tyranitar-Mega Crunch vs. 252 HP / 172 Def Oranguru: 162-192 (82.2 - 97.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after sandstorm damage
    252+ Atk Tyranitar Black Hole Eclipse (160 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Oranguru: 254-302 (128.9 - 153.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO after sandstorm damage


    Wishiwashi-School @ Aguav Berry
    Ability: Schooling
    Level: 50
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA
    Quiet Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Muddy Water
    - Ice Beam
    - Tearful Look
    - Protect

    You were right about max HP Wishiwashi. It gives it roughly the same amount of physical bulk, so it should also improve the bulk for special attacks as well, giving more bulk overall.
    252+ Atk Landorus-Therian Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Wishiwashi-School: 81-96 (53.2 - 63.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    252+ Atk Landorus-Therian Earthquake vs. 132 HP / 99 Def Wishiwashi-School: 76-90 (55.4 - 65.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

    I know you don't like Wishiwashi but these calcs don't lie, it tanks hits from and OHKOs Landorus. It's a hard counter
    252+ SpA Wishiwashi-School Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 156 SpD Assault Vest Landorus-Therian: 160-192 (97.5 - 117%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO
    252+ SpA Wishiwashi-School Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 156 SpD Landorus-Therian: 240-284 (146.3 - 173.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO

    Marowak-Alola @ Thick Club
    Ability: Lightning Rod
    EVs: 164 HP / 252 Atk / 60 Def / 28 SpD / 4 Spe
    Careful Nature
    - Flare Blitz
    - Shadow Bone
    - Brick Break
    - Protect

    I also decided to keep Marowak as if because it survives a whole bunch of stuff with its generally defensive spread.
    252+ Atk Incineroar Darkest Lariat vs. 164 HP / 60 Def Marowak-Alola: 128-152 (82 - 97.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    252 Atk Tough Claws Metagross-Mega Stomping Tantrum vs. 164 HP / 60 Def Marowak-Alola: 106-126 (67.9 - 80.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    132 SpA Tapu Fini Hydro Pump vs. 164 HP / 28+ SpD Marowak-Alola: 146-174 (93.5 - 111.5%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO
    132 SpA Tapu Fini Muddy Water vs. 164 HP / 28+ SpD Marowak-Alola: 116-140 (74.3 - 89.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    252+ Atk Mold Breaker Excadrill Drill Run vs. 164 HP / 60 Def Marowak-Alola: 134-162 (85.8 - 103.8%) -- 25% chance to OHKO after sandstorm damage
    +1 252 SpA Volcarona Inferno Overdrive (175 BP) vs. 164 HP / 28+ SpD Marowak-Alola: 121-143 (77.5 - 91.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

    As for replacing it with Incineroar, I don't think I want to do that. The Fire/Ghost typing + lightning rod allows me to hard counter a whole bunch of stuff. Zapdos, Tapu Koko, Kangaskhan, Ferrothorn, Tapu Bulu, Kartana and Volcarona all can't touch Marowak due to him resisting or being immune to their entire movesets. I don't think I'd want to give that up. I also know you recommended Thunderbolt on Xurkitree over Discharge but I don't think I'd want to give up the luxury of being able to use that either. Taking 2 KOs at a time is just too good to give up and I find the max investment in special attacks picks up the slack for the drop in power for the mutli-hit move as well. I didn't expect to be talking about Xurkitree on Marowak's bit but I guess they can share a spotlight since I didn't run any defensive calcs on Xurkitree anyway.

    No calcs were run on the remaining three members of the team. Still torn on the 6th member and what to do with Lele (Though, you've already told me your recommendation for Lele, I'm just having a hard time thinking it over for myself. You know how I am.)
     
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2018
  6. ninijatt

    ninijatt Half, ninja, half cat, all attitude

    With NA internationals coming up, I decided to prepare by coming back to this thread and posting the team I had settled on using for it. For the most part, it's largely the same with a few small tweaks.


    Xurkitree @ Iapapa Berry
    Ability: Beast Boost
    Level: 50
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
    Quiet Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Tail Glow
    - Discharge
    - Dazzling Gleam
    - Protect

    Oranguru @ Sitrus Berry
    Ability: Telepathy
    Level: 50
    EVs: 252 HP / 172 Def / 84 SpD
    Sassy Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Psychic
    - Instruct
    - Trick Room
    - Protect

    Tapu Lele @ Wiki Berry
    Ability: Psychic Surge
    EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    Modest Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Psyshock
    - Moonblast
    - Calm Mind
    - Protect

    Wishiwashi-School @ Aguav Berry
    Ability: Schooling
    Level: 50
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA
    Quiet Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Muddy Water
    - Ice Beam
    - Tearful Look
    - Protect

    Marowak-Alola @ Thick Club
    Ability: Lightning Rod
    EVs: 164 HP / 252 Atk / 60 Def / 28 SpD / 4 Spe
    Careful Nature
    - Flare Blitz
    - Shadow Bone
    - Brick Break
    - Protect

    Snorlax @ Figy Berry
    Ability: Gluttony
    Level: 50
    EVs: 244 HP / 252 Def / 12 SpD
    Relaxed Nature
    - Belly Drum
    - Recycle
    - Return
    - High Horsepower

    I thought about using Adrenaline Orb Xurkitree + Whismsicott Tailwind due to the high amount of intimidate users in the meta right now but decided against it due to the rest of my team still being pretty slow and that I like Instruct way too much to ditch Oranguru. I've been swapping between Modest and Quiet Lele and the problem with Quiet Lele is that I feel having a hard trick room team would put me at a disadvantage. My Quiet Lele was a rental from a friend so ultimately, I decided to catch another Lele and leave it up to chance: Between Quiet or Modest, whichever one I catch first will be the one I take to internationals. (But for the time being, I have a bias toward Modest Lele). I've also been swapping between Tearful Look and Scald on Wishiwashi's moveset and they both have strengths and weaknesses. Tearful Look lets me tank hits from Fini and ensures that I can outlast it to win but Scald does actually guarantee I can get the KO on low HP foes which I have to rely on Ice Beam to do that with Tearful Look. I've been debating whether or not I want to take the 4 speed off of Marowak's spread but then I'd be wasting those 4 EVs and I'm really not sure how I'd want to reconfigure its spread to not waste those EVs.

    Finally, I decided that Snorlax would probably be the best fit for the last team member. It's really good in this year's meta, can fit on any team, even non-trick rooms and I probably could really benefit from having more than 1 physical attacker considering literally the entire team aside from Marowak is a special attacker. That being said, I do not own a BR Snorlax, I don't even have one with a hidden ability yet. But I DO have a BR Tapu Koko that I've been using at a few events.

    Tapu Koko @ Assault Vest
    Ability: Electric Surge
    Level: 50
    EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    Hasty Nature
    - Dazzling Gleam
    - Thunderbolt
    - Sky Drop
    - Nature's Madness

    And here he is, the amazing guy; the guardian deity of Melemele; the... guy I caught at the end of Sun and Moon during the champion festival because Lillie couldn't chill out....! I put an assault vest (I thought about trying terrain extender but decided that was probably gimmicky at best, right?) on him since Life Orb was really dragging him down since he took recoil from using Nature's Madness. Basically, the plan is, if I can't get Snorlax together in time, I'll use him on the team instead since both Pokemon work well on this team for different reasons. While I really like Snorlax's pure power, Electric Terrain is really good support for my team as well and while I could benefit from adding another physical attacker, I could benefit just as well from adding another fast pokemon to my team. They're both awesome.
     
  7. EKZ1505

    EKZ1505 Trust The Process

    Well things are extremely dead around here so I’ll try to help, but really much of what I would say is going to be the same as before…

    Xurk definitely needs some more bulk to help setup and take advantage of the berry, as could Lele since you aren’t Timid max speed. Any reason for Sitrus over a 50% berry on Oranguru? Still think Wishi is outclassed, but definitely unique and uncommon so that’s fun, just still don’t understand the use for Tearful Look when it should be attacking with its great power. Marowak is still SO very outclassed by Incineroar; Lightning Rod is the only thing Marowak has going for it.

    The main problem I still see with the team is that it’s entirely dependent on getting up Trick Room with your one TR user, but again the only support to help set it up is Psychic Terrain to dodge Fake Out (and the opponent may assume your Oranguru is Inner Focus anyway and not bother) or Prankster Taunt (which is so rare now).

    Regarding the rest…your team is already hard Trick Room (A Modest Lele, with no Tailwind/Icy Wind/Electroweb/Bulldoze speed control is not a “fast” mode), so Quiet Lele helps with terrain wars, but bulkier Modest is fine if you can’t get one. Finally, for the Koko, it would need some work. For an AV set, you want to be much bulkier and Hasty is not a good nature either (Sky Drop’s damage is inconsequential, as its sole purpose is to waste the target’s turn). You’re correct that Terrain Extender is not good and Nature’s Madness (if that’s mainly what you use) with Life Orb isn’t ideal.

    Good luck in the tourneys!

    Edit: OH...again the lack of a mega and especially a z move also really hurts your chances if you're trying to take it seriously and win :/
     
  8. ninijatt

    ninijatt Half, ninja, half cat, all attitude

    Right? It's super dead. I wonder what happened. It used to be very lively in 2010-2013.

    I went with Sitrus Berry over Pinch since I find it gives more bulk due to the fact that the Pinch berry doesn't always get to activate. So I find the earlier activation time helps Oranguru stay in longer. The thing about Tearful Look is that Wishiwashi's movepool is non-existent. The only other options would be Scald, Hydro Pump and Earthquake. Scald is only good for the accuracy, Hydro Pump is too much of a gamble with it's accuracy and Earthquake isn't great with low attack investment. So I find Tearful Look works best since it can completely debilitate a Tapu Fini with it, basically being a hard counter as it can't touch Wishiwashi with it's special attack in the gutter. Lightningrod might be the only thing Marowak has going for it, but that's exactly what I need to be using it with Xurkitree.

    And yeah, I know but there don't seem to be any megas that I like on this team. I tried out Metagross but it felt like it didn't really belong on the team. And I still don't have access to any of the Z-Crystals that I'd want on my team. I wish I had the time to get them but beggars can't be choosers.

    Thanks for the help!
     
  9. Archstaraptor

    Archstaraptor Team Builder / RMT

    Can't really add much bc I don't really play vgc. But I will echo EKZ above in that you have only one setter, which to me would mean either adding more or cutting down on the ultraslow mons a tad.
    Would personally look into that last slot (Tapu Koko/Snorlax) a bit more in particular- As it stands certain specially defensive mons (Tyranitar, Wanna say AV Incineroar also ) are going to give you a fair bit of trouble as you are reliant on trick room getting setup to shift the game in your favour.
    So look into some non-psychic trick roomer perhaps. Or another form of opposing speed control such as tailwind,icy wind,bulldoze or electroweb.
    On that note,( Z-)Focus Blast could be nice on Lele. If you have good reason and results for Wiki + Calm mind fine, but the option to push past ttar and steels would be great for your team ( there's a lot of pressure on Marowak as it stands,which needs trick room and not to be intimidated).
     
  10. ninijatt

    ninijatt Half, ninja, half cat, all attitude

    It's the night before internationals.

    I made enough progress into USUM to get Z moves. I swapped Tapu Koko's AV for Electrium Z.

    Now here's the part I was iffy on: I swapped Tapu Lele's Wiki Berry for Fairium Z. I've had a lot of matches where the heal from wiki was the deciding factor in the match.

    But Lele outspeeds Tyranitar and OHKOs with Z-Moonblast unboosted. Since Tyranitar is a problem I thought I could do this to take it out so Oranguru can set up TR.

    Edit: Welp, I did not fight a single Tyranitar today. I missed day 2 by just one loss too so I can't help but think I would have done better had I just stuck to wiki berry.
     
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2018

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