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VGC Desert Storm

TheFox

Expert EV'er
after trying and failing at making a VGC good stuff team i decided to make a middle ground sand team which can work really well with or without the Storm are they're currently doing quiet well atm


;376;;248;;272;;485;;145;;445;


;376;
Metagross @ Occa Berry
Trait: Clear Body
EVs: 232 HP / 252 Atk / 24 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Earthquake
- Bullet Punch
- Meteor Mash
- Protect

metagross is my anti hail and sand summoners, bullet punch is for prioity, MM is for a harder slower version, and EQ is for other metas which i can out speed with my 24 speed ev's


;248;
Tyranitar (M) @ Chople Berry
Trait: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 6 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Crunch
- Outrage
- Earthquake
- Protect

My Storm bringer, outrage gets rid of dragons, crunch is for psychic and ghost types, EQ is for other T-tars, and protect is for extra storm damage. might change chople berry for Focus Sash and give tran choice scarf

;272;
Ludicolo (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Swift Swim
EVs: 6 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Fake Out
- Protect
- Ice Beam
- Giga Drain

since my team is has a big rain weakness i decided to add in my most hated rain mon, since fake out is big this year i decided to add it to ludic, I-beam is for flying/dragon/ground mon, giga is for water/ other sand teams as well as keeping ludic alive for a bit, wasn't to sure about abillites as whether to go for Swift Swim or Rain Dish, and leftovers is to recover residual sand damage.


;485;
Heatran (M) @ Focus Sash
Trait: Flash Fire
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Heat Wave
- Dragon Pulse
- Earth Power
- Protect

heatran is in to take meta's fire damage, since i'm running a slow tran i gave him focus sash so as to survive hitmontops mach punch or other fast hiting fighting type moves, EP is for chanlures. Dragon pulse is for when i switch into a dragon attack and survive


;145;
Zapdos @ Yache Berry
Trait: Pressure
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Discharge
- Heat Wave
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Signal Beam

Zapdos is my utility user with discharge is for stab while not affecting many of my team, heatwave for hail teams and sun abusers, HP ice to remove dragons and rock/ground/grass. signal beam is to get rid of Ludicolo's and psychic types


;445;
Garchomp (M) @ Life Orb
Trait: Sand Veil
EVs: 6 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Outrage
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- Protect

Chomp is my resident dragon type and sand abuser, being able to have a hightened evasion in a storm, i went for the basic set that does it's job with most of his moves explaining them sleves



was think of going for Mence over Chomp with this set:

;373;
Salamence (M) @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Moxie
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Outrage
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- Brick Break

with brick break for ice types that get in the way of mence's sweep
 

SilentOmen

Shadow of Prophecy
Because of Garchomp's permission to enter VGCs, Ice Shard is becoming a very popular move. That in mind, I'd discourage running two pokemon that are 4x weak to it. To add insult to injury, Ice Shard can hurt Zapdos with repeated abuse (I'm aware of the berry). The fact that the popular Ice Shard choice is Mamoswine. It also gives Tyranitar, Metagross and Heatran reason to be jumpy, though they have options to counter it well. If it helps, Hitmontop is currently scoring very high in popularity to pair with Zapdos. Intimidate abuse and Mach Punch are two reasons it's seeing popularity.

I know Ludicolo is neat and all, but It's use should really be limited to rain teams. In a 4 on 4, switching isn't a hugely common problem and Tyranitar has the lower speed to USUALLY win the weather war with the toed. I'd honestly consider some other bulkier water types like Jelli for the role here. Water Absorb can be a blessing giving your team a means to stop water types in their tracks.
 

PokeMaster366

Well-Known Member
I know Ludicolo is neat and all, but It's use should really be limited to rain teams. In a 4 on 4, switching isn't a hugely common problem and Tyranitar has the lower speed to USUALLY win the weather war with the toed. I'd honestly consider some other bulkier water types like Jelli for the role here. Water Absorb can be a blessing giving your team a means to stop water types in their tracks.

You still have to consider the fact that he gets STAB on both Water and, more importantly, Grass without breeding an Ice weakness. Base 70 Speed with about 100 Speed EVs invested is enough to outrun Base 80s such as Chandelure, which is all you really need Ludicolo to outrun, and his presence itself is enough to discourage people from using DrizzleToed. People will also fear Scald if you choose to use it over the one-time Fake Out or the inaccurate Hydro Pump.

A good rain counter and a Grass type w/o an Ice or Fire weakness. Those are key advantages that Ludicolo have.
 

SilentOmen

Shadow of Prophecy
You still have to consider the fact that he gets STAB on both Water and, more importantly, Grass without breeding an Ice weakness. Base 70 Speed with about 100 Speed EVs invested is enough to outrun Base 80s such as Chandelure, which is all you really need Ludicolo to outrun, and his presence itself is enough to discourage people from using DrizzleToed. People will also fear Scald if you choose to use it over the one-time Fake Out or the inaccurate Hydro Pump.

A good rain counter and a Grass type w/o an Ice or Fire weakness. Those are key advantages that Ludicolo have.

I'm considering all of that, but Ludicolo still has one solid issue. It's not the bulkiest water poke on the block. I find it only really gets utility in a rain setting. If your opponent isn't setting up rain, it's use is marginal at best. It just feels it's sole role on this team is if you see a politoed. Meanwhile, Jellicent has the bulk and the ability to check some of the problems Ludicolo can't.

I've been trying teams with Ludicolo too. I've just found that the majority of threats that aren't rain can counter it pretty easily. Tornadus, Thunderus, Volcarona (don't ask me why, but people seem to love this thing with Rage powder -_-). And yes, Volcarona is a counter. Without rain, Volcarona can KO it with Bug Buzz (because it's outsped).

I'm not going to profess Ludicolo as the worst choice ever. I'm just saying "there's better for THIS team".
 

PokeMaster366

Well-Known Member
I'm considering all of that, but Ludicolo still has one solid issue. It's not the bulkiest water poke on the block. I find it only really gets utility in a rain setting. If your opponent isn't setting up rain, it's use is marginal at best. It just feels it's sole role on this team is if you see a politoed. Meanwhile, Jellicent has the bulk and the ability to check some of the problems Ludicolo can't.

I've been trying teams with Ludicolo too. I've just found that the majority of threats that aren't rain can counter it pretty easily. Tornadus, Thunderus, Volcarona (don't ask me why, but people seem to love this thing with Rage powder -_-). And yes, Volcarona is a counter. Without rain, Volcarona can KO it with Bug Buzz (because it's outsped).

I'm not going to profess Ludicolo as the worst choice ever. I'm just saying "there's better for THIS team".

Funny. I was just talking about Rage Powder Volcarona on Smogon the other day and why he's so popular.

Either way, you bring up some truly viable points about Ludicolo. Guess the only reason you'll ever see it is to check anti-rain Gastrodon, which is a bit of crippling over-specialization, something you want to avoid. What would you suggest replacing it with? Abomasnow?
 

SilentOmen

Shadow of Prophecy
Funny. I was just talking about Rage Powder Volcarona on Smogon the other day and why he's so popular.

Either way, you bring up some truly viable points about Ludicolo. Guess the only reason you'll ever see it is to check anti-rain Gastrodon, which is a bit of crippling over-specialization, something you want to avoid. What would you suggest replacing it with? Abomasnow?

nah, Abomasnow with hail giving blizzards perfect accuracy with 2 pokemon 4x weak and another 2 x weak doesn't sound too viable. I've always been kinda curious about Cradily in a sandstorm with storm drain.... hmmm. But it's viability is kinda low. A Thunderus with HP Grass can be a terrifying water counter. Add the fact it is a prankster pokemon can really mess up a few teams. Shame it's rather fragile and this team already has Zapdos and it only furthers this teams problem with Ice Types.

This team is rather difficult to really find a lot of viable counters. I just find it difficult to ignore that this team has a huge crater of a weakness in Ice attacks. Add to the fact that just about any water type can sport Ice Beam / Blizzard and this team has other concerns altogether. *Sigh* I think priority 1 = pick 1 dragon and replace the other.
 
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PokeMaster366

Well-Known Member
nah, Abomasnow with hail giving blizzards perfect accuracy with 2 pokemon 4x weak and another 2 x weak doesn't sound too viable. I've always been kinda curious about Cradily in a sandstorm with storm drain.... hmmm. But it's viability is kinda low. A Thunderus with HP Grass can be a terrifying water counter. Add the fact it is a prankster pokemon can really mess up a few teams. Shame it's rather fragile and this team already has Zapdos and it only furthers this teams problem with Ice Types.

This team is rather difficult to really find a lot of viable counters. I just find it difficult to ignore that this team has a huge crater of a weakness in Ice attacks. Add to the fact that just about any water type can sport Ice Beam / Blizzard and this team has other concerns altogether. *Sigh* I think priority 1 = pick 1 dragon and replace the other.

How about Dry Skin Toxicroak? He gets both Fake Out AND Drain Punch, can learn Sucker Punch, and thanks to Dry Skin, he's immune to all Water attacks.
 

SilentOmen

Shadow of Prophecy
How about Dry Skin Toxicroak? He gets both Fake Out AND Drain Punch, can learn Sucker Punch, and thanks to Dry Skin, he's immune to all Water attacks.

It is a fair option if you can work around it's problems. I can see where it can work. I just don't much like that prediction is key with Sucker punch. Admittedly, my hesitation for Toxicroak comes from my own neutral attitude towards it. It's a fair pokemon. I just don't like that it's hit hard by both Heat Wave and Earthquake (two of the biggest spread attacks running). I'd say "oh, but it's so weak to psychic" but I'm aware that's the niche that is Toxicroak. "Go ahead, use Psychic, I've got a little sucker punch just waiting to take a chunk out of your flimsy defense stat". Although, it will want to watch out for the likes of Gothitelle who is finding a little more popularity in VGC thanks to it's bulkier defense than most psychic types. But Gothitelle isn't a large scale problem.

Meh, I can see it's use. Talking it out kinda has me in a neutral agreement. Just neutralize Heat Wave and Earthquake somehow and I'm on the bandwagon.
 

PokeMaster366

Well-Known Member
Seeing as most of your team is based on speed and power, you may benefit a lot from teaching Zapdos how to use Tailwind over Signal Beam. Signal Beam won't really offer much in the department of coverage when the pokemon using it is also using both Heat Wave and HP Ice. I know Signal Beam has 5 extra points of power and has a miniscule 10% chance of causing confusion, but the move itself isn't game-breaking; also, this might help.

About Salamence, with all the Intimidate support running around, you might be better off using a Special Attacking version of the pokemon.

You've already got your Fire and Metagross Steel weaknesses covered, so it might be better for you to replace Metagross' Earthquake with something else. Maybe Zen Headbutt for 2nd STAB and coverage against Hitmontop Fighting types.

TTar is much more useful with Rock Slide instead of Outrage, which is very unpredictable in terms of who it's hitting, which is probably another reason why people are using Special Attacker Dragons more often.
 

Pokemom

TCG Gym Leader, Ret.
I think I like Mence over Chomp....he brings more coverage and gives you a second 'mon that's immune to EQ. Although if you do that I would suggest losing Zap's discharge as the only one left immune to that is Ttar and his sandstorm will get your bird. Maybe Tbolt or Volt Switch?

Signal Beam hits darks, too, and with coverage like that bird has you might consider Expert Belt for Zap. Weak to Ice, yada yada...also weak to Rock Slide which promises to be rampant at VGC.

It's different...I like different :D Good Luck!
 

SilentOmen

Shadow of Prophecy
I think I like Mence over Chomp....he brings more coverage and gives you a second 'mon that's immune to EQ. Although if you do that I would suggest losing Zap's discharge as the only one left immune to that is Ttar and his sandstorm will get your bird. Maybe Tbolt or Volt Switch?

Signal Beam hits darks, too, and with coverage like that bird has you might consider Expert Belt for Zap. Weak to Ice, yada yada...also weak to Rock Slide which promises to be rampant at VGC.

It's different...I like different :D Good Luck!

A fair point about the discharge, but to further the criticism, even TTar isn't immune to it. Rock and Dark, only ground types are immune.
 

Pokemom

TCG Gym Leader, Ret.
A fair point about the discharge, but to further the criticism, even TTar isn't immune to it. Rock and Dark, only ground types are immune.

I did say that, didn't I? Sorry...been looking at so many Rhyhorns over the last few days I got my rocks mixed up. For some reason I have a mental block that keeps making me think of Ttar as being Dk/Grnd instead of Dk/Rk :X
 

lovetheangelshadow

One heck of a Nobody
Metagross, Heatran, and Garchomp can handle other t-tars. Give T-tar rock slide or Stone Edge and take advantage of his dual STABS. It'll also help cover Zapdos' weaknesses.
Just a thought
 

Ramune

Member
;376;
Metagross @ Lum Berry
Trait: Clear Body
EVs: 252 HP / 44 Atk / 4 Def / 180 SDef / 28 Spe
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Earthquake
- Bullet Punch
- Meteor Mash
- Protect

Standard Metagross in VGC. It hits hard enough to Latios & most Dragon-type Pokemon with few EVs in Attack. Maximizing EVs in Attack won't guarantee OHKO to Dragon-type Pokemon so give more EVs to Defense and Special Defense.


;248;
Tyranitar (M) @ Chople Berry
Trait: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 HP / 100 Atk / 68 Def / 80 SDef / 4 Spe
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Crunch
- Low Kick
- Rock Slide
- Protect

From skimming through your Tyranitar, I see that it's missing Rock Slide. Rock Slide is Tyranitar's main weapon. It can attack both opponent's Pokemon and has 30% of flinching them. EVs are given to survive from Terrakion's Close Combat with 4+ boost in Attack, Conkeldurr's Mach Punch with 2+ boost in Attack or with Flame Orb activated, and Modest Abomasnow's Grass Knot.

;272;
Ludicolo (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Swift Swim
EVs: 28 HP / 60 Def / 164 SAtk / 76 Def / 180 Spe
Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
- Fake Out
- Protect
- Leech Seed
- Giga Drain / Grass Knot

Calm nature is easier for me to calculate EV spreads, I've decided to go for Calm nature. Stats won't change with Modest nature as long as you give EVs correctly. Only noobs or beginners thinks that nature changes the stats despite EVs given. As you can tell from given EVs, it's main role is to absorb HP from opponent. You can also use Ludicolo as Fake Out lead.

;485;
Heatran (M) @ Focus Sash
Trait: Flash Fire
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spe
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Heat Wave
- HP Ice
- Earth Power / Toxic
- Protect

Looks good but go for Hidden Power Ice instead of Dragon Pulse. I've tested it and Dragon Pulse didn't do much damage to Dragon-type Pokemon. Aim for 4x weakness.

;145;
Zapdos @ Sitrus Berry
Trait: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 48 Def / 74 SAtk / 20 SDef / 116 Spe
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Discharge / Thunderbolt
- Heat Wave
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Detect

I think defensive Zapdos works better in VGC. EVs are spread to survive from commonly used Pokemon but since I'm lazy, I'll shortcut all description.


;445;
Garchomp (M) @ Yache Berry / Focus Sash
Trait: Sand Veil
EVs: 6 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Dragon Claw
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- Protect

Looks good but use Dragon Claw instead. Outrage chooses attack target randomly so Garchomp may attack opponent's Pokemon you weren't aiming for.



was think of going for Mence over Chomp with this set:

;373;
Salamence (M) @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Intimidate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spe
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Draco Meteor
- Hydro Pump
- Heat Wave
- Dragon Pulse / HP Flying

I've never seen physical Salamence in VGC. Salamence works better as special sweeper in VGC. Intimidate will lower opponent's attack by one stage. This can help if your Pokemon has low Defense stats and needs to survive. If you are running HP Flying, EV spread must be 8 HP / 248 SAtk / 252 Spe.

I'm rating your team based on my experience from past few years of VGC, last chance qualifiers, Worlds, and double battle random matchup in B&W. I will not be participating in this year's VGC due to schooling.
 

TheFox

Expert EV'er
@Ramune you were quite correct around t-tar that defensive set up
decided to swap tran for a scarf'd Typhlosion

Typhlosion (F) @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Blaze
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Hardy Nature
- Eruption
- Hidden Power [Grass]
- Focus Blast
- Protect
 
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