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Victim of the Week - Landorus Incarnate

Discussion in '6th Gen' started by McDanger, Jul 20, 2014.

?

What should the next Victim be

Poll closed Jul 27, 2014.
  1. Mega Charizard Y

    3 vote(s)
    15.0%
  2. Manaphy

    1 vote(s)
    5.0%
  3. Excadrill

    2 vote(s)
    10.0%
  4. Mega Mawile

    14 vote(s)
    70.0%
  1. McDanger

    McDanger Well-Known Member

    Credit to the people of Smogon for the idea

    Welcome to the first victim of the week thread here on Serebii. Each week we will pick a top tier threat and you guys will post different checks and counters for said pokemon. The top three counters and top three checks will be saved and moved to the index of the next weeks thread. This will be closed at the end of each week and indexed in the following weeks first post. Be sure to vote for what you want next weeks threat to be.

    Rules

    - Please use the following form when nominating a counter or check

    -name of the pokemon
    -check or counter
    -a description of why its a check/counter
    -a set that works against the victim of the week, be viable

    -Know the difference between a check and counter

    Pokémon A checks Pokémon B if Pokémon A can win every time when switching into at least one of Pokemon B's attacks, without factoring in hax.

    Pokémon A counters Pokémon B if Pokémon A can manually switch into Pokémon B and still win every time, even under the worst case scenario, without factoring in hax.

    - Don't nominate a revenge killer

    -If someone is wrong, explain why in a polite mannor

    Week 1

    [​IMG]

    Landorus (M) @ Life Orb
    Ability: Sheer Force
    EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature
    - Earth Power
    - Sludge Wave
    - Focus Blast
    - Calm Mind

    Landorus Incarnate was such a powerful threat last generation, it was banned due to it being able to tag perfectly with Tyranitar and Keldeo. Landorus returns to OU and is still a nightmare to come into. With its raw power, most things are 2hkoed by Landorus and with a Calm Mind under its belt, the few things that avoided a 2hko are now, allowing it to muscle through stall teams without a lot of effort.
     
  2. KillerDraco

    KillerDraco The Enforcer Staff Member Super Mod

    Well, I'll start this off with something... unorthodox.

    [​IMG]

    Goodra @ Assault Vest
    Ability: Sap Sipper
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
    Modest Nature
    - Fire Blast
    - Ice Beam
    - Thunderbolt
    - Dragon Pulse

    Yep, it's Goodra, who in this case could be classified as a counter.

    Although it's fairly underwhelming by pseudo-legendary standards, and it fell into UU due to dwindling usage, Goodra still is a niche Pokemon in OU, much like other UU Pokemon such as Chesnaught. With its trademark Assault Vest set, Goodra is only 4HKO'ed by any given unboosted attack Landorus has at its disposal.

    252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Goodra: 109-129 (28.3 - 33.5%) -- 0.1% chance to 3HKO
    252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Goodra: 95-113 (24.7 - 29.4%) -- 100% chance to 4HKO
    252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Sludge Wave vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Goodra: 75-90 (19.5 - 23.4%) -- possible 5HKO

    And even if it boosts with Calm Mind on the switch...

    +1 252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Goodra: 160-188 (41.6 - 48.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
    +1 252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Goodra: 142-168 (36.9 - 43.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
    +1 252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Sludge Wave vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Goodra: 113-134 (29.4 - 34.8%) -- 8.5% chance to 3HKO

    It goes without saying that Goodra is one blobby special sponge. Meanwhile, unlike something like Blissey or Chansey, Goodra can actually do something back to Landorus in return.

    252+ SpA Goodra Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Landorus: 464-548 (145.4 - 171.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
    252+ SpA Goodra Ice Beam vs. +1 0 HP / 0 SpD Landorus: 312-368 (97.8 - 115.3%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO

    Or, even if we assume it tries to Calm Mind spam immediately upon the switch...

    252+ SpA Goodra Ice Beam vs. +2 0 HP / 0 SpD Landorus: 232-276 (72.7 - 86.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    252+ SpA Goodra Ice Beam vs. +3 0 HP / 0 SpD Landorus: 188-224 (58.9 - 70.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

    +3 252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Goodra: 265-313 (69 - 81.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

    Landorus fails to come out on top unless there's some serious prior damage; even Stealth Rock is not enough to guarantee a 1HKO at +3. Mind you, Goodra needs to come in healthy, or have Wish Support as prior damage can push it over the edge, but the same can be said for many Pokemon. Even if it's not the first choice on an OU team, it's a testament to the fact that UU Pokemon can still have niches in OU, much like how Chesnaught can punish things like TTar and Excadrill.
     
  3. Clone™

    Clone™ Ded

    Screw the Obvious Chansey:

    [​IMG]

    Gliscor @ Toxic Orb
    Ability: Poison Heal
    EVs: 244 HP / 204 SpD / 60 Spe
    Careful Nature
    - Taunt
    - Roost
    - Earthquake
    - Knock Off

    Check.

    Taunts him out of Calm Mind and Knocks Off the LO. From there its a combo of Roost + Knock Off untill Lando Dies. Even at +1, Lando needs a LO to beat Gliscor thanks to Toxic Heal.
     
  4. Going for something a little underrated here:

    [​IMG]

    Aerodactyl @ Aerodactylite
    Ability: Pressure
    EVs: 248 Atk / 8 SpD / 252 Spd
    Adamant Nature
    - Stone Edge
    - Aerial Ace
    - Ice Fang
    - Earthquake

    I guess this is technically a check. (barely counters if Stealth Rock is not on Aero's side)

    Regular form Aerodactyl is EVd to always live a Focus Blast upon the switch-in, however if Stealth Rock is up Aerodactyl will lose. It easily switches into any other attack and OHKOs with Ice Fang. Calcs:

    252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Focus Blast vs. 0 HP / 8 SpD Aerodactyl: 255-300 (84.7 - 99.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Focus Blast vs. 0 HP / 8 SpD Mega Aerodactyl: 211-248 (70 - 82.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Sludge Wave vs. 0 HP / 8 SpD Aerodactyl: 101-120 (33.5 - 39.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
    252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Sludge Wave vs. 0 HP / 8 SpD Mega Aerodactyl: 83-99 (27.5 - 32.8%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
    248+ Atk Tough Claws Mega Aerodactyl Ice Fang vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Landorus: 464-548 (145 - 171.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
     
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2014
  5. ger9119

    ger9119 Well-Known Member

    [​IMG]
    Thick Fat
    Life Orb/Focus Sash
    Adamant/Jolly
    252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
    Icicle Crash
    Ice Shard
    Earthquake
    Stealth Rock / Stone Edge

    Mamoswine is a check, coming in and taking it out with Ice Shard.
     
  6. McDanger

    McDanger Well-Known Member

    [​IMG]

    Thundurus (M) @ Life Orb
    Ability: Prankster
    EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature
    - Thunderbolt
    - Hidden Power Ice
    - Focus Blast
    - Thunder Wave

    Thundurus is a solid check being able to come on Earth Power or Focus Blast and KOing Landorus back with Hidden Power Ice. At +1, Thundurus is wary of Focus Blast but if it comes in on Calm Mind its not a problem. Sludge Wave still fails to OHKO without a boost and has a high chance of a KO at +1 without rocks up, with them Sludge Wave has a 12% chance of a OHKO, that being the main thing that keeps it a check, as well as its lack of real for of recovery.
     
  7. Airo

    Airo That One Guy

    Are we to assume that the only set of the Pokemon we need to counter is the one in the OP? If so, then...
    [​IMG]
    Gengar @ Black Sludge
    Ability: Levitate
    EVs: 4 HP/252 SpAtk/252 Spd
    Timid Nature
    - Shadow Ball
    - Sludge Bomb/Focus Blast/HP Ice
    - Substitute/HP Ice
    - Disable

    Standard SubDisable set. Thanks to convenient typing and ability, Gengar serves as a hard counter, immune to Focus Blast and Earth Power, and resisting Sludge Wave twice. Even after Landorus deals a little damage to Gengar, Sludge Wave can then be disabled, rendering Landorus completely incapable of harming Gengar. Gengar is able to hurt Landorus fairly well, even through 2 Calm Mind boosts, with or without HP Ice.

    If we're assuming that Landorus may carry Psychic, then this turns into a check, as Gengar is still able to switch into other moves with ease and is capable of disabling Psychic after it hits the sub.

    Calcs:
    With 1 Calm Mind:
    +1 252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Sludge Wave vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Gengar: 77-90 (29.3 - 34.3%) -- 99.9% chance to 4HKO after Black Sludge recovery
    252 SpA Gengar Shadow Ball vs. +1 0 HP / 0 SpD Landorus: 106-126 (33.2 - 39.4%) -- 100% chance to 3HKO
    252 SpA Gengar Hidden Power Ice vs. +1 0 HP / 0 SpD Landorus: 212-252 (66.4 - 78.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    With 2 Calm Minds:
    +2 252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Sludge Wave vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Gengar: 101-120 (38.5 - 45.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Black Sludge recovery
    252 SpA Gengar Shadow Ball vs. +2 0 HP / 0 SpD Landorus: 79-94 (24.7 - 29.4%) -- 100% chance to 4HKO
    252 SpA Gengar Hidden Power Ice vs. +2 0 HP / 0 SpD Landorus: 160-192 (50.1 - 60.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
     
  8. PokemonMegaBeast

    PokemonMegaBeast Im Still Here!

    Well looking at these counters/checks the ones that I can think of off the top of my head are taken and Landorous can definitely barely touch Goodra.
     
  9. Airo

    Airo That One Guy

    Well, we definitely need more than just 6 sets if we're having a top 3 counters and top 3 checks.
    [​IMG]
    Crobat @ Black Sludge
    Ability: Infiltrator
    EVs: 252 Atk/4 SpDef/252 Spd
    Jolly Nature
    - Brave Bird
    - U-turn
    - Haze/Cross Poison/Roost
    - Hypnosis/Cross Poison/Roost

    Fair check, since Stealth Rock hampers Crobat too much. Can switch in comfortably on Earth Power or Focus Blast, and only takes moderate damage from Sludge Wave. Even if switching on Calm Mind, +1 Sludge Wave will only hit for around half HP, so Crobat is able to Brave Bird twice while being left with a small amount of health. Alternatively, Landorus can be stalled for LO recoil a bit with Roost, although it's very risky, allowing Earth Power and Focus Blast to deal heavy damage. Hypnosis may be used, but its inconsistency may disappoint you. Haze's removal of stat changes means the Landorus will be wasting turns if he bothers with 2 CMs.

    Psychic completely foils Crobat, though.

    Calcs:
    No CMs:
    252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Focus Blast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Crobat: 60-71 (19.2 - 22.8%) -- possible 6HKO after Black Sludge recovery
    252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Sludge Wave vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Crobat: 96-113 (30.8 - 36.3%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Black Sludge recovery
    Even if 2 Sludge Waves were to do max damage(no crits), factoring Brave Bird's 1/3 recoil from the remaining 80% of Landorus' health and Black Sludge recovery, Crobat would survive.
    1 CM:
    +1 252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Focus Blast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Crobat: 90-107 (28.9 - 34.4%) -- 99.7% chance to 4HKO after Black Sludge recovery
    +1 252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Sludge Wave vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Crobat: 144-170 (46.3 - 54.6%) -- 9.4% chance to 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
    Roosting Crobat Taking Focus Blast:
    252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Focus Blast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Crobat: 121-143 (38.9 - 45.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Black Sludge recovery
    +1 252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Focus Blast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Crobat: 181-213 (58.1 - 68.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery

    252 Atk Crobat Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Landorus: 166-196 (52 - 61.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
     
  10. McDanger

    McDanger Well-Known Member

    dont forget crobat is vulnerable to earth power when it uses roost. I`m surprised some obvious ones havent been thrown out there yet
     
  11. saPower1000

    saPower1000 FLIP ALL THE TABLES

    I'd say this is a pretty hard check:

    [​IMG]

    Latios (M) @ Life Orb
    Ability: Levitate
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Sp.A / 252 Speed
    Timid Nature
    -Surf
    -Ice Beam
    -Psyshock
    -Draco meteor

    Outspeeds Landorus and takes a maximum of 87% when switching into a +1 Sludge Wave, is immune to Earth Power and resists Focus blast while still being able to outright OHKO through +1 Sp.Def, and +2 if Stealth rocks are up, and as long as it comes in on the second CM, as there is a very high chance it will be OHKOed if hit by a +2 Sludge Wave. Also resists Psychic, which some sets may take over CM or FB. Could even forgo Surf for Roost, but it wouldn't be as helpful with coverage, and would get walled by Heatran.

    Latios calcs:

    252 SpA Life Orb Latios Ice Beam vs. +2 4 HP / 0 SpD Landorus: 312-369 (97.5 - 115.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
    252 SpA Life Orb Latios Ice Beam vs. +1 4 HP / 0 SpD Landorus: 411-489 (128.4 - 152.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

    CM set calcs:

    +1 252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Sludge Wave vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Latios: 222-263 (73.5 - 87%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    +1 252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Focus Blast vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Latios: 139-165 (46 - 54.6%) -- 59% chance to 2HKO
    +2 252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Sludge Wave vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Latios: 296-350 (98 - 115.8%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO

    Non CM set calcs:
    252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Psychic vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Latios: 70-83 (23.1 - 27.4%) -- 67% chance to 4HKO
    252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Focus Blast vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Latios: 94-110 (31.1 - 36.4%) -- 63.6% chance to 3HKO
    252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Sludge Wave vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Latios: 148-175 (49 - 57.9%) -- 97.3% chance to 2HKO
     
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2014

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