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Violence! How much is enough, and how much is too much?

M

mindripper

Guest
There has been a proliferation of violence in fics these days, and the question about the extent to which said notion should apply still begs an answer. How much violence is enough to bring a point of genre across, and yet how much edges the line? Does the character make-up affect that decision, or is there a benchmark?

I have also shamefully jumped on the bandwagon, even though I believe I have my points of differences from other people in the business, and anyone who has read my prologue knows what to expect in my fic. No matter the genre, there is still always a limit to the violence, past which the character becomes sterile, much like the theory of the disindustries of scale would work. What then is an appropriate level of violence a character can work with in accordion to his/her personality, being emotionally believable enough to pull off those acts? My main character is rather the artist when it comes to violence, but there was still a limit which I dared not cross, as in I could not make my character superhumanly powerful, killing for the sake of it, but rather reacting like a human in that situation would, if morality and survival compete. Do others share the same view, or does the end justify the mean?

I wanted to ask this question to get a general idea of whether I have developed my main character in an ideal fashion. There will probably be little or no change in the character, but knowing what others think can do no harm.

PS: Mod, please change my thread title for me if possible. I accidentally deleted the "n" in violence and created the thread. I cannot stand the error in the thread name. Thanks.
 
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K

Kyle of Pallet

Guest
I believe that it depends on the type of fic, they way things die, the graphicness, and the age rating.

In my fic, Evil Monsters die by bursting into flames and returning to Ganondorf. This is a spoiler, so... [SPOIL]Also, the Dragons die by turning back into eggs. Then, when the Dragons hatch, they obey their last slayer.[/SPOIL] My fic has a lot of violence, but it is not graphic, nor is death eternal. My rating s also PG-13 for Colliding Worlds, so the violence factor can be higher.

but I know whta your saying. If there is a lot of violance in a G rated fic, then that is a bit much.
 

Zerodius

Eternally hating D/P
My opinion about violence is like this: there is no such thing as too much if it is done correctly.

If in doubt, I shall re-upload Chronicles of Darkness. Siryx and NeoBowser are about as sick as they get... and yet, back when I posted the fic, they were considered uber, instant classic villains (and I still consider NeoBowser to be the best villain I created for a fanfic although the villain I created for Rejected is quite deep too).

More recently, Silvera from the Pokemorph stories and 02 from Beginning of the End are quite sick as well. Silvera is a completely insane sadistic and masochist Pichu Pokemorph while 02 eats the souls of live people, their screams for mercy not even making a dent in her eternal state of boredom.

Violence is also present regarding my heroic characters... although I tend to make the heroes a lot less extreme. Mewlt from Rejected is one of my few heroes guilty of ultra-violence ; he is a Shadow Pokemon and when he loses control... well, he loses control and when this happens, things get ugly (and very bloody) usually.

That doesn't mean that blood and gore should fly about in every story ; blood and gore fits when it is logical and well-executed. In my humoristic fics, I decrease the violence level by a lot even when they are R-rated ; gratuitous blood and gore is a pathetic excuse for bad jokes. If you can't make something funny without blood, then you are a bad writter, mister.

In fact, while I am totally for not caring about violence limits in fics... I also believe that although violence can carry the emotion further and make some scenes even more dramatic, if your story, when stripped of it's violence, turns out lame... then the story is bad.

Well, that's all.

Have a nice day.
 
It all depends. Later in my fic, there is alot of murdering by one guy, and it doesnt stop at the Chosen ones either. He's only around for a handful of chapters, but the way he kills is quite intense. Also, the ocasional gunshot wounds, and a handful of deaths. It depends what your aiming for.
 

Ledian_X

Don Ledianni
When you're writing a comic-like story like mine, you kind of need violence for realism. Some can be a bit much. But, if you want the bad guys to really be bad, you need some or ellse it'll be really lame. It just depends on how it's dealt, how much and what kind.

I admit I put a little violence in. I do mention Jenna's rape n the story. I didn't show it but I did mention that and showed stuff happening to Aquita and of couerse the death of the king and a couple other people.

Death's to be expected. Adds realism and so does violence. So, yeah go alongwith what the others said. Too much can be bad but if handled the right way, it can be good. Can't have a superhero story without bonking heads.

LX
 

The Big Al

I just keeping Octo
It depends on the genre. L_X super hero comic based fics kind of need violence as they fight. Though even Pokemon fics can have some violence, even between humans. The general idea is that violence is a part of life but their is such a thing as overkill. Also, the story should depend on the violence for the plot.
 

Faerie

MONS
Hmm. Violence? It depends on the story, really. Some stories don't require violence at all because that's not the idea of the story, but those are usually one-shots. Untamed Serenity didn't have any violence because the plot didn't call for it at all.

However. On the other hand, violence can be used to convey many different things in a story, and sometimes it's actually neccesary or good for the story. Fanfics with villains almost always have violence in them (otherwise the villains aren't really villains xP), and the more the villains are used, the more violence there usually is. I like to have the villains as main characters, usually, so the violence is acually fairly common. I don't like to use it too excessively, but in the case of a story I'm writing, I had to up the rating to PG-15 because of the frequency of it.

Depending on how the violence is used, it can aid in a story or make it just plain stupid. If it's actually used well and aids in the plot, it's fine with me, but if it's just there for decoration it's really annoying. The best thing to do with violence is to give your story a clear rating to show readers what's in it. Violence isn't the kind of thing that can become REALLY ecsessive, but if you use it with at least a tiny bit of sparing it's perfectly fine.
 

Negrek

Lost but Seeking
Violence is tricky to do well, and there's a fine line between putting in an amount appropriate to the mood that you're trying to convey and just overdoing it so much that it desensitizes your reader to the rest of the work ("Oh boy, another enemy getting his head chopped off in a stylish fashion? *yawn*").

You also have to be careful to make sure that you have some sort of motivation behind said violence, or else it just becomes gratuitous and boring. Basically, the upper bound to violence is when it becomes ineffective as a way of influencing your reader. When your reader no longer feels anything by it, then you have clearly gone too far with it.
 

Eternal Daydreamer

Surrender to the Sea
It depends. Like in Not So Sensational. There will be violence in it, but only because the plot seems to be pointing in that direction. As said before, if it isn't nesscary it's overkill.
 

Dilasc

Boip!
In Dust to Deceit, violence in an important theme. Kertonmel is not a happy, prissy land where rainbows and gumdrops happen and only badguys get hurt. In this land, people are slightly more savage, and at a disconcern for what the rest of the world calls 'moral.' As such, there is open cursing and nudity on the public televisions in Kertonmel, and in order to truly adventure, one needs to be immune to death, or else that person is'nt man enough to go into poop infestation of the sewers, and when you leave, go onwards without bathing or brushing your teeth for maybe even weeks on ends. If that's not enough, then think of demons who will eat a man whole and then send him out their back in a bloody rain of shredded pieces. Horrifying, no?

Anyway, I see violence as a powerful force, but it can easily be abused if overdone. Violence, after all, besets more violence, so its best to ensure you avoid getting oo much before it gets out of hand.
 

Klaus

TOMATO BERRY!
Violence-for one thing is something that shouldn't be over done. But, I do agree that you need enough to make it have a dramatic feel. See, in Friends of Legend, there is one scean where Taylor drags a knife across the face of a well liked evil guy. It doesn't cause much damage but it does give enough proof that Taylor has gotten upset over a certain event.

And in Semi-hippies it only has some mild violence in it in later chapters. And, Friends Forever will have quite alot of violence because it involves things that would spoil it.

So, all in all, violence is okay in little drizzels but it you get all *He stabbed the dagger into its leg and began to dig. Blood was seeping out and staining everything...bloody bloody bloody gore gore gore* That's where I draw the line.

As always, be kind to the mime.
 

xXSaberXx

xxxXsightless
D: Lawl. It's funny that in threads like these, PEOPLE ALWAYS USE THEIR FICS AS AN EXAMPLE. We might as well put; ADVERTISE HERE in the title. xPPPPP Sad. :/

Violence is violence. If it's a gory story (RHYMES. LAWL), then there should be lot's. =O If you give no reason for the violence in question, it just ends up like a bad remake of the Texas Chainsaw Massacre. No reason, no time, no date, no hate. They just DO IT. xP Kinda like bad romance fics. THEY JUST DO the IT for no reason. o-o;;

Anyhoo, I think it's just all in moderation. You could use violence to drastically upscale a fic in the drama department, give it a little boost from the monotonity of everything else. On the other hand, it makes things more....how do you say....dark. It's a reminder that violence is always there, all around us, and constantly whispers in our ears about reality. So it also brings a bit of reality to the story, I suppose. Watch My Pretty Ponies and you'll instantly know it's basiclly not meant to be realistic cause their's no violence in general. xP Not that talking ponies with ice cream tattos on their butts is realistic, but you get the idea.

I hope.

x3
 

Dilasc

Boip!
xXSaberXx said:
D: Lawl. It's funny that in threads like these, PEOPLE ALWAYS USE THEIR FICS AS AN EXAMPLE. We might as well put; ADVERTISE HERE in the title. xPPPPP Sad. :/

I wll respond to this, but I warn you... but still don't judge me wrongly by this. I simply wish to bring up a counterpoint.

When I too have people lining up to read the things I post, I'll probably not bring up my precious babies in every subject... as vigorously. This rant was not meant to be harsh, I'm just sticking up for those guys who 'advertised' their works, and hope to get more people to do the good Samaritan thing and build them a large fanbase. Sad, isn't it?

Now, back on topic, with absolutely NO attention paid to the part above at all. Violence is usually not brought on for no reason. Everyone has a motive, from the simple 'MEAT! ME HUNGRY' that comes from killing gazelles and the ever delectible space mutant to 'Hey Huns, let's sack Rome for riches and glory,' that drives conquest. Basically, an act of violence, even from a crazy man, has its reasons. No person, or living creature at all kills for no reason whatsoever. There is always some reason why they done the dirty deed. As such, violence needs to be explained, and if random, it simply will not work very well at all, even if its for a humor story, it's not very funny.
 

xXSaberXx

xxxXsightless
Dilasc said:
I wll respond to this, but I warn you... but still don't judge me wrongly by this. I simply wish to bring up a counterpoint.

When I too have people lining up to read the things I post, I'll probably not bring up my precious babies in every subject... as vigorously. This rant was not meant to be harsh, I'm just sticking up for those guys who 'advertised' their works, and hope to get more people to do the good Samaritan thing and build them a large fanbase. Sad, isn't it?

Then again, this asks for your OPNION on violence, not about the violence that happens in your fics. That should be saved (descriptions and all,) for places like the Fanfic Commercials thread, or Spread the Word! It's appropriate. Although I do not mind people using it to compare, most of them don't. They just state things about the violence in their fics. This thread is not labeled; SHARE YOUR FIC VIOLENCE HERE, therefore, it should be mentioned minmally/in comparison with the subject itself/used as an example to back up YOUR OPNION on it.

People lining up? Trying people getting on your a** to write. It's stressful. Please don't assume it is all fun and games and glory. Glory is overrated.

Now, back on topic, with absolutely NO attention paid to the part above at all. Violence is usually not brought on for no reason. Everyone has a motive, from the simple 'MEAT! ME HUNGRY' that comes from killing gazelles and the ever delectible space mutant to 'Hey Huns, let's sack Rome for riches and glory,' that drives conquest. Basically, an act of violence, even from a crazy man, has its reasons. No person, or living creature at all kills for no reason whatsoever. There is always some reason why they done the dirty deed. As such, violence needs to be explained, and if random, it simply will not work very well at all, even if its for a humor story, it's not very funny.

Then again, you could very well have a crazed madman who kills for no purpose. Madman/madwoman, it dosen't matter. There could be absoulutly NO REASON for someone to kill, and they'll still do it and actually, in some cases, it can be accepted. Does skill play a part in this as well, maybe?
 
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Another Fan

Nothing Special
I read some stories were the author seemed to want to stick in a much violence in it and that disgusted me.

I mean the most violence around is maybe someone punching someone else. I can't imagine how people end up writing about molesters and killers and still enjoy the story. I mean if it is horror then it is fine but just having a character that is violent in a story that doesn't center on it then it is a bit strange for me. Also, it seems like it will be overdramatised and most people don't have the experience needed to write these things realistically.

At least that is what I think.
 

Elemental Charizam

Sudden Genre Shift
Well, fics can be used as examples of the violence levels you think acceptable. There has been much more blatant advertising in other places in the AC (where it shouldn't be). At least people didn't leave links.

Saber, mebbe you shoulda thought before saying you wanted to follow in the footsteps of authors here. Careful what you wish and all that ;)

But I agree with Dilasc, there has to be some kind of motivation. Now, if the character's insane or so forth, their motivation could simply be boredom, or the fact they love violence. If it can happen IRL, it can usually happen in fics if well written. What most people don't seem to realise though is the sheer shock and pain of being hit around the head with a club, for example. An unexperienced trainer of about 12 wouldn't be standing up, no matter how brave they were. They'd probably be unable to get up due to dizzyness, possibly even paralyzed by shock =/
 
M

mindripper

Guest
Actually, a lot of people are missing the mark IMO. Without going too far, I should just say that violence is often a mindset that is cultivated through time, and not something which is triggered instantaneously. Violence is an offshoot of basic human survival. When we strip away all aspects of technology and culture, as well as human courtesy, what every organism on this planet is either prey or predator. Jungle Law decrees that one either kills or be killed. If we were to be placed in such a situation, human nature decrees that most people would do what they need to survive, and this extrapolates into violence. The notion of violence is something that is imbued within everyone, and it is merely a matter of how we react and suppress it, or see it as a vent to inner frustrations.

Another problem is that the term violence has a negative context. Pokemon battling each other would also entail violence, and if we were to strip away civilities from these battles, we would see violence in a purer light. Sadistic violence is completely different, and is inculcated, rather than being seeded in individuals.
 
Well, as you probably all guessed by now, I'm opposed to violence. I'm a G writer and proud of it. I basically feel that violence in fics - although realistic and mirroring reality - just helps to desensitize people to it.

Criminals not criminals unless they're violent? Not at all. You have corporate criminals, internet criminals, frauds, theives, smugglers... etc. Maybe it's just me, but I personally find people who can write off your assets, job - even your official existance - with the stroke of a pen or phone call a lot scarier than someone in a dark alley with a baseball bat.

Apart from being opposed to violence, simply on moral grounds, I also don't like the apparent 'prestige' it adds to a fic. If the 'great' or 'talented' writers load their fics with violence (however 'well done') it gives newbies the sad and false message that fanfiction 'celebrities' are like a packet mix where you 'just add violence/gore/death/etc'. I personally would like to see more people write quality non-violent fiction, if only to set an example for the impressionable newbies.

The point of this? Fic violence desensitizes people to the realities of violence even as it drags a bitter taste of reality into the fics. I'd say any but the tamest form is too much violence.

I know people like to have violence in their fics and read about it, but I'd like to see the flip side of life portrayed a bit more. think about it - if you're going for true realism, how much violence have you personally suffered?

Piney.
;204;;324;
 

Dragonfree

Just me
Well, I like to make my battles violent, but that's just me. I don't really mind whether others do it when I'm reading, though. But I generally prefer fics where somebody dies, whether it has actual description of violence or anything.

Pinecone Tortoise said:
Maybe it's just me, but I personally find people who can write off your assets, job - even your official existance - with the stroke of a pen or phone call a lot scarier than someone in a dark alley with a baseball bat.
Admittedly, I do have a soft spot for that kind of thing too - it might really all just boil down to that I like the villain to be drastically more powerful, with an overwhelming advantage and generally the main character feeling that kind of extreme helplessness in their quest. I love helplessness. Sometimes I get the feeling I want to write whole fics about the feeling of being completely tied down to be absolutely unable to move while somebody is about to do something horrible...
 
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