• Hi all. We have had reports of member's signatures being edited to include malicious content. You can rest assured this wasn't done by staff and we can find no indication that the forums themselves have been compromised.

    However, remember to keep your passwords secure. If you use similar logins on multiple sites, people and even bots may be able to access your account.

    We always recommend using unique passwords and enable two-factor authentication if possible. Make sure you are secure.
  • Be sure to join the discussion on our discord at: Discord.gg/serebii
  • If you're still waiting for the e-mail, be sure to check your junk/spam e-mail folders

VS Cynthia! Iris' Road to Dragon Master (1206)

GarchompTheAssassin

GarchompTheAssassin

Water starter fan
I'm a fan of the dramatic way Cynthia sends her Pokemon into battle ('emerge from the waves', 'take to the skies' etc) but I'm a little bit disappointed she didn't have a special phrase for the mega evolution, like Steven and Alain do
 
Panky..

Panky..

Discord: Panky..#9281
MattSaddlere said:
using a move that would score her a KO isn't cheap but properly done. One-hit KO attacks are known to fail in the anime occasionally, so it's not a big deal.
Click to expand...
It is cheap when the OHKO move works in a DEM way and 'animes' its way to a win from a difficult position.

Let's see the context: Excadrill was battered heavily after taking two super-effective moves, a move known for reducing accuracy and we see Excadrill covered in mud from at least one of those. It was already under duress from the second one when it started to use the attack, known for its low accuracy, from a position where it wouldn't be able to see the opponent's location properly, its eyes were completely covered by the 'drill' parts throughout the duration of the move. And yet the attack lands with pinpoint accuracy despite all these circumstances going against it, something that Iris even acknowledged that it was a big gamble. On top of that, Cynthia did nothing to even dodge/deflect the move despite knowing it was coming and what it would do, all signs of a DEM are clear.

This is in stark contrast to the Bisharp scenario (which a few used as a whataboutism justification) where Bisharp sufficiently ensured enough setup to make sure its opponents were stationary and/or slow, or generally at a disadvantage and incapable of any dodging/deflecting attempt, before using the move as a finisher, and not from a position from where it's a blatant DEM.

P.S: Get lost, Scott.
 
Last edited:
Dragonsoldier77

Dragonsoldier77

Bittersweet Satisfaction
Panky.. said:
It is cheap when the OHKO move works in a DEM way and 'animes' its way to a win from a difficult position.

Let's see the context: Excadrill was battered heavily after taking two super-effective moves, a move known for reducing accuracy and we see Excadrill covered in mud from at least one of those. It was already under duress from the second one when it started to use the attack, known for its low accuracy, from a position where it wouldn't be able to see the opponent's location properly, its eyes were completely covered by the 'drill' parts throughout the duration of the move, Cynthia did nothing to even dodge/deflect the move despite knowing it was coming. And yet the attack lands with pinpoint accuracy despite all these circumstances going against it, something that Iris even acknowledged that it was a big gamble. Signs of a DEM are clear.

This is in stark contrast to the Bisharp scenario (which a few used as a whataboutism justification) where Bisharp sufficiently ensured enough setup to make sure its opponents were stationary and/or slow, or generally at a disadvantage and incapable of any dodging/deflecting attempt, before using the move as a finisher, and not from a position from where its a blatant DEM.

P.S: Get lost, Scott.
Click to expand...
You know i actually forgot muddy water lowered accuracy, because in my mind i thought it was speed for some reason.

Man that just made the moment even more of an asspull.
 
M

MattSaddlere

Member
And that's why it was a gamble, she put all her hopes into Horn Drill as it's last resort before it was inevitable KO'd. It's also a proper game move unlike the things the writers tend to ignore for the anime. Also it's clearly obvious Cynthia was going to have it dodge the move but didn't get a chance. Kinda of perplexed why people signal this out.
 
M

MattSaddlere

Member
Soniman said:
I don’t mind the ohko that much I just wish she had done any damage before beforehand but JN battles tend to have the flow of clogged sewage so they needed a way to quickly wrap up the first battle at that point to move on to the next one
Click to expand...
They showed Excadrill bounce off Gastrodon twice showing it wasn't going any damage. Excadrill got hit by multiple Muddy waters and then Milotic's attack which finished it off.

I'm not sure why people spin this into not obviously realizing Iris was backed against the wall and using a last one hit KO move was a perfectly fine option.
 
M

MattSaddlere

Member
Panky.. said:
Scott, don't you get tired of being dismissive of proper counter-arguments, while repeating the same hollow thing again and again
Click to expand...
There's just nothing wrong with her relying on Horn drill as a last resort. I don't see anyone complaining about this anywhere outside this forum on social media or other pokemon forums. Horn Drill is also a game accurate move and not something the writers pull from nowhere so I don't see the reason to complain.

Had she used it from the start I'd agree, but after realizing Excadrill's first two attacks was doing minor damage and he was getting hit by multiple water attacks it felt like a fitting last attack.
 
K

Kenny Pkmn Trainer

Snorlax HUNGRY!!!!!!
Just thought i am about to give the anime a chance after quite some years, since i always wanted the champions fight (I do miss Tobias, yes i know he is not really a champion, but it would be nice if he could compete here. I wonder what his other pokemon were) and also quite some years coming back here in Serebii forums. Anyways, I have watched it since the first match and i predict that it will be leon and cynthia or either leon vs Ash. I hope for the anime it is the last one.. else it will be very predictable. Also seeing Ash kicking Cynthia's butt would be amazing and probably his biggest achievement in terms of fights ever.

To get back to the episode. Apart from Iris not switching excadrill vs milotic and also Dragonite getting one hit KO'd (yes, it happens but seeing the development Iris' dragonite had it was quite an anti-climax) I understand it probably has to do with the length of the episode so i will ignore this.

At the end Haxorus vs Garchomp was a nice fight. When Iris bonded with Haxorus, i was expecting a new transformation like Ash has with Greninja, if Cynthia would have been beat this way it would have been probably an even better episode since no one would have expected this at all! I would have enjoyed reading the posts here lol.

I liked the fight, but again it was a very predictable outcome, Cynthia is a BEAST and her Garchomps is unstoppable. I remember the time back in the day Cynthia's Garchomp was according to the people the strongest pokemon a trainer could have (non-legends).

I enjoyed the haxorus and garchomp fight and a highlight was Haxorus stomping his head to the ground to get rid of confusion. Now that is something I havent seen before ever. Amazing. For the outcome of the fight, I could have skipped this episode but yeah the anime is very predictable so I was prepared for Cynthia's win.

Decent episode. 6.5/10

Good luck Ash, lets see if you will be able to beat her, but first Ash vs Steven.
 
Last edited:
M

MattSaddlere

Member
Somehow a move that has a chance of connecting after hitting it two times prior is a dem even though that's what the move is known for.

Also I'm oddly seeing a lot of people climax this ep had one-hit KO's when none of them did? Excadrill got hit by multiple muddy waters before Milotic finished it off. Dragonite hit Milotic with at least 2 Thunderpunches which did noticeable damage given the smoke coming out of it before Haxorus finished it off. Even Dragonite was hit by 2 attacks (unless you also count Wrap but that wasn't clear) before going down.
 
Sham

Sham

The Guardian of War
Last edited:
KukuiFanatic501

KukuiFanatic501

Well-Known Member
Giving my own thoughts on the episode, Cynthia vs Iris has to be my favorite battle of the M8 so far. I think Diantha vs Lance still takes the cake on the strategic category (though Cynthia starting out with Gastrodon and rain dance was a smart tactic) but overall the clash between these two was amazing to me. Haxorus vs Garchomp being the best part of course. And the fact Iris held her own so much so without using any gimmick, even against Cynthia’s newly debuted mega evolution (which was insane and eye opening to me, even though I knew she still had it lol), made it so much better.

Makes me super proud of Iris to have made Cynthia get that serious for her, her and Axew have really come a long way since BW and this battle shows their strength growth. I loved it even more that they referenced their training battle from Bw too. Wish Ash would have comforted her after the match was over though lol.

It was also great seeing the old BW rivals too. Bianca, Stephan, Georgia all watching it together with Trip and Alder too? That threw me for a little loop lol.
 
Spider-Phoenix

Spider-Phoenix

#ChespinGang
M

MattSaddlere

Member
IMO the only part of the battle that deserved a bit more time is Dragonite vs. Milotic, even if it lost the same way. Would have liked to see Dragonite flying around a bit scoring some more thunderpunches while Milotic threw it around. I do like how Milotic defeated it, they could have went with an extremely generic ice beam finisher but instead we got to see it wrapped and then be delivered some colossal brain damage.
 
mysticalglacia

mysticalglacia

Alola Shill
Incredible showing for Iris and a damn good episode, loved it.

TR recognizing Iris and rooting for her was heartwarming, and so were the Champions and Ash/Go/Hop. Even the little cameos from everyone in Unova and even Sinnoh (Reggie!!) were great. Everyone praising Iris and Haxorous for their tenacity and strength put the biggest smile on my face; like imagine getting praised by Leon? That’s when you know my girl is a legend.

Always loved Excadrill, so great to see it pull through. Dragonite continuing to be a jobber pissed me off a little, but whatever. It was nice to see Cynthia acknowledge him anyway. Haxorous’s entrance was rightfully powerful, and so was that animation. I liked what they did with Haxorous in particular, him ramming into Milotic and brute forcing his way through the meteor shards felt so heavy and badass.

Haxorous is just so cool man. Hitting his head to rid the confusion, going toe-to-toe with Garchomp right until the very end, everything. He’s a beast and I loved seeing every second of him. The battle with Garchomp was raw, as expected. Both put up a great fight and seeing the Draco Meteor at the end while the Dragon Pulse like intensified and divided to collide with each shard was truly incredible, visually.

Iris and Cynthia sharing this personal connection made this battle easy to get invested in, and that’s coupled with what is just a great battle in and of itself. I love the respect they have for each other, and how unforgettable this battle was for the both of them. That exchange of thanks at the end was very heartfelt….and so was Ash going to comfort Iris. He just gets her and what she’s feeling and it’s so gratifying to see that little moment between them. Am looking forward to seeing her cheer in the stands like Ash did for her :)

Iris is the goat like plain and simple. She’s more than worthy of being Unova’s Champion; her strength is so palpable especially after seeing all she’s been through to get here and truly understanding her struggles and triumphs. I truly love what Journeys has done with her and that she’s gotten a chance to show everyone what an excellent character she is, for the people who didn’t get it the first time. Without a doubt the companion given the most justice on their return, and deservedly so.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top