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VS Raihan! A Fight with Masters Eight on the Line!! (1198)

DayQuil95

Well-Known Member
Pretty good battle

Ash literally did not care he lost the Kalos League which was the most important match of his life at that point. It’s been like 25 years since Kanto and 90 percent of his losses he learns to take in stride, he’s not gonna throw a tantrum every single time.
It's not entirely about whether or not Ash himself has learned how to deal with losses, but how they play that factor in the anime. If they wanted to showcase him having surpassed that, then why even have the depression arc in the first place? Have him bounce off from the defeat by himself and then beat Bea in a rematch rather than having to go through something so redundant, wouldn't that be right? The point made here is not that Ash should or shouldn't have sad moments after losses, but rather how the show wants us to believe that he would throw a tantrum and do nothing about it until someone force him off from it, which in Bea's case was Goh, when he should have had already been over that when it happened multiple times in the past, the Kanto and Bea comparison was more about how in one Ash was properly disappointed with his performance, and then swore to better himself in one of the most iconic scenes in the anime, while in the other he DID throw a tantrum over something little that he should have expected to happen eventually, rather than properly take the L.
 

Panky..

Arthur Morgan is the GOAT character ever.
Iris stopping mid-battle to teach Dragonite Draco Meteor
Can we stop with this bullshit fallacy and crediting her for something she never did?
 
I'll admit calling the animation terrible was far too harsh and an impulsive overreaction on my part.
It wasn't an overreaction. The animation of the show has more than completely collapsed and people expecting the visual presentation to improve are in for a rude awakening. They might be able to scrounge up something for some parts of an episode or two, but I'm personally in full doomer territory. The best I'm expecting is a Takagi-lead episode with Oshida and Iwane doing their best outside of that.

But hey, maybe I could be wrong and miraculously Maenami, Ohashi, Murata, and a bunch of other people who worked on the OP come back.

I think there's a chance that Maenami comes back for a couple of cuts in an episode since the guy loves Pokemon. I though Ohashi could come back as well, but the Greninja episode put a damper on that unless the AG vs MCX rematch is actually happening and he shows up there which could be possible.

There's the hopium for people
 
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Kazuniya

how cute~
Can we stop with this bullshit fallacy and crediting her for something she never did?
But she did do it though. If Iris hadn't given a pep talk to Dragonite through its heart, Dragonite would most likely have lost to Haxorus and the whole Draco Meteor situation wouldn't have occurred. So, you honestly gotta give credit where credit is due. The only reason Ash won is because Iris went out of her way to help *his* Pokemon. If Iris had stayed silent, Dragonite wouldn't have been as pumped -> Ash loses.

It's not even that complex. The writing is simple enough that you can notice that the Iris talking to Dragonite scene directly leads into Dragonite's victory.
 

TheLink

Eunie is as Eunie does.
But she did do it though. If Iris hadn't given a pep talk to Dragonite through its heart, Dragonite would most likely have lost to Haxorus and the whole Draco Meteor situation wouldn't have occurred. So, you honestly gotta give credit where credit is due. The only reason Ash won is because Iris went out of her way to help *his* Pokemon. If Iris had stayed silent, Dragonite wouldn't have been as pumped -> Ash loses.
Okay. I’ve made it no secret I’m not the biggest Journey’s fan but even with that this take makes me chuckle. “Oh if Iris hadn’t reached out Dragonite most likely would’ve lost.”. Did she reach out to Dragonite? Yeah. But jumping from that to “Oh dRaGoNiTe wOuLd’Ve LoSt If IrIs DiDn’T tALk To It” is a hell of a leap. Come on now. I don’t like how that battle was written myself but insisting that Iris effectively threw the fight is something I can’t agree with. For better or worse, Ash won via Ash-tactics - improvisation.
 

Evstike

We won
It wasn't an overreaction. The animation of the show has more than completely collapsed and people expecting the visual presentation to improve are in for a rude awakening. They might be able to scrounge up something for some parts of an episode or two, but I'm personally in full doomer territory. The best I'm expecting is a Takagi-lead episode with Oshida and Iwane doing their best outside of that.

But hey, maybe I could be wrong and miraculously Maenami, Ohashi, Murata, and a bunch of other people who worked on the OP come back.

I think there's a chance that Maenami comes back for a couple of cuts in an episode since the guy loves Pokemon. I though Ohashi could come back as well, but the Greninja episode put a damper on that unless the AG vs MCX rematch is actually happening and he shows up there which could be possible.

There's the hopium for people
I'm confident the climax of Ash vs Leon will get the treatment it deserves but I don't think we'll get anything to write home about until then with the possible exception of a few episodes like the Project Mew finale, and presumably Ash vs Cynthia and Alain if those are in fact the matchups we get. It makes sense at this point to be conserving everyone to get a stacked roster for the most important episode.

Iwane should be back into rotation soon with Paul's return. Some scenes in the upcoming episodes trailer from a few weeks back were undeniably his work. The Team Rocket episode was said to be in production the same time as the Arceus specials which explains why he's been out of rotation recently. Shinohara is not a suitable replacement for Iwane and shouldn't be put on any battles. If they're going to assign major episodes to lesser teams, at least give them a guest animator like Yong-ce Tu in #17 and Miyata in #76.

Even without the big guys like Ohashi, Murata, Maenami, etc. they still have younger talent as well as more experienced in-house staff but they don't seem to be getting important parts. Koide has frequent appearances but rarely are they anything noteworthy. We have all this potential on the team but no way to show it off. With Ueda out of the picture Oshida can't carry the show's animation on his back. The talent OLM is cultivating makes me hopeful for the future but that won't be anytime soon so I might as well accept the state of JN's visuals as it is and enjoy the other aspects of the show.
 
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Evstike

We won
Can we stop with this bullshit fallacy and crediting her for something she never did?
I rewatched the episode now and while I was mistaken about Iris teaching Draco Meteor to Dragonite, she did go out of her way to get through to Dragonite's heart, no? We can't say for sure what the outcome would of been if she hadn't have reached out to him, but Dragonite was clearly exhausted and getting worked up before she stopped to calm it down and show it the fun of battling. It was due to her pep talk that Dragonite was able to push on and truly connect with Ash to pull off Draco Meteor. Regardless of who won, it's undeniable that Iris purposely helped Ash's performance.
 
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Spider-Phoenix

#ChespinGang
Y’all if Lance is Champion of Kanto and Johto why does the anime have the Indigo Plateau and Silver Conference?
Maybe Lance has won both at some point?
Okay. I’ve made it no secret I’m not the biggest Journey’s fan but even with that this take makes me chuckle. “Oh if Iris hadn’t reached out Dragonite most likely would’ve lost.”. Did she reach out to Dragonite? Yeah. But jumping from that to “Oh dRaGoNiTe wOuLd’Ve LoSt If IrIs DiDn’T tALk To It” is a hell of a leap. Come on now. I don’t like how that battle was written myself but insisting that Iris effectively threw the fight is something I can’t agree with. For better or worse, Ash won via Ash-tactics - improvisation.
It's hard to say if he had won or not. Could have gone either way, in my opinion.

Also, I like the avatar. Rashad was a good rival and I the battle in the final episode was quite good.
 

TheLink

Eunie is as Eunie does.
Maybe Lance has won both at some point?

It's hard to say if he had won or not. Could have gone either way, in my opinion.

Also, I like the avatar. Rashad was a good rival and I the battle in the final episode was quite good.
Eh it was good animation-wise but Rashad as an antagonist seemed pretty weak character-wise to me which in turn affected the final episode. It was good having an antagonist that wasn’t yet another Defense-type user though.
 
Ash said “we don’t give up until its over”
AMOURSHIPPING REFERENCE
 

Spider-Phoenix

#ChespinGang
Eh it was good animation-wise but Rashad as an antagonist seemed pretty weak character-wise to me which in turn affected the final episode. It was good having an antagonist that wasn’t yet another Defense-type user though.
Not going to lie the shift from "Valkyrie is DA BESTIE!!!11!!!" to "I'm Ha-oh now, Raphael goes brrrrrr" was a bit sudden but at least it kept the show's thematic of how it handled rivalry with everyone effectively doing something to improve and do better. Granted, it was all an excuse for Takara Tomy sell more inspirited spinning tops but it had the fortunate side effect of making all rivalries feel like they matter. Truly what anime tends to preach as "being rivals make both advance and get better".

Basically, something this current interation of the Pokémon anime tries to pull off but ends up with... Underwhelming results.
 

Gale_

Member
I wasn't a fan of this battle. G-Max Duraladon getting pretty much one shot by Lucario's super duper spirit aura sphere felt cheap. For being Raihan's ace and Leon's rival, they made Duraladon look like a chump. This anime keeps giving my favorite Pokemon bad showings. I mean seriously, the thing only got off like two attacks before falling. Absolutely terrible.
 

GMax Helios

Well-Known Member
By the way, has anyone taken a close look at Duraludon's moves? Because... Oh boy. Max Steelspike, Max Rockfall, and GMax Depletion. That's Steel, Rock, and Dragon. I know type match ups aren't nearly as relevant in the anime than the games, but even so the anime still tries to "keyword being TRIES" keep them consistent. Seriously, this thing is hardwalled by steel types. And, wouldn't you know it, his opponent was a steel type. Come on, how about replacing Stone Edge and whatever the non stab was (assuming it's not stab in the 1st place) with Body Press and Stomping Tantrum? If Raihan would've made it to the Masters 8, he would be doomed right from the start if his Duraludon would have to battle either Alain or especially Steven.
 
By the way, has anyone taken a close look at Duraludon's moves? Because... Oh boy. Max Steelspike, Max Rockfall, and GMax Depletion. That's Steel, Rock, and Dragon. I know type match ups aren't nearly as relevant in the anime than the games, but even so the anime still tries to "keyword being TRIES" keep them consistent. Seriously, this thing is hardwalled by steel types. And, wouldn't you know it, his opponent was a steel type. Come on, how about replacing Stone Edge and whatever the non stab was (assuming it's not stab in the 1st place) with Body Press and Stomping Tantrum? If Raihan would've made it to the Masters 8, he would be doomed right from the start if his Duraludon would have to battle either Alain or especially Steven.
To be fair, Lucario are frail.

To be unfair, this one has plot armor.
 

Ace-Barn

#Tokio&Nickit
Back to back Cinderace appearances in Lucario episodes (wish he and Inteleon appeared more). They aren't the usual week-before setup that JN's does because Inteleon is next, though I do wonder if it will be Lucario's turn to help with training, or if this is setup for another team fight/ friendly match at the end of the series?
 

RafaSceptile

Well-Known Member
And ash continuity being trashed again.
At least with this episode, all those SM lovers can now shut up about claiming ash achievement in alola being worthy.
It is kinda official, just like most of the fanbase thought from beginning, for the anime pokeverse, manalo conference and alola champion title are definitely not legit in their eyes, but just another wannabe subpar joke of tournament.
is this an "Aged like milk" moment? At least it had a bigger Impact in the region that whatever Ash made in the previous ones
 

Yce288

Grass type FTW
Why is there an Alolan Sandshrew in Galar?
Goodra went down too quicky after just one Max Starfall.
so in the Masters 8 we have 2 trainers from Kanto(Ash and Lance?), 2 trainers from Kalos(Alain and Diantha)and 2 trainers with the same ace Pokemon, but different gimmick(Alain with Mega Charizard X and Leon with Gigantamax Charizard).
i dont know why the writers dont reveal things like Alain participating in PWC earlier when Ash visited Kalos 5 times and Professor Sycamore didnt bother telling him about that.
 
i dont know why the writers dont reveal things like Alain participating in PWC earlier when Ash visited Kalos 5 times and Professor Sycamore didnt bother telling him about that.
Hey, no logic allowed! Git!
 
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