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Was Journeys the correct series to end Ash's Journey?

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Sham

The Guardian of Ruin and Birth
I'm gonna be completely honest, the only reason I'm happy this series happened was because an underrated character finally got their flowers and the biggest glo up in the series. Besides that I don't remember anything else that happened in this series that's of relevancy to me minus Aether stuff.

BUT if I did remember anything, I'd say that Goh and Chloe being Ash's final companions was disservice to the series as a whole because to date they are the most boring (group and dynamic wise) ever and for that alone gets an eyebrow raised about should this have really been "it".
 
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Sham

The Guardian of Ruin and Birth
No, Battle Frontier or DP would have been. XY doesn't count since it came after BW destroyed everything including natural continuity to past series and Ash's progression as a trainer and character.
I did like SM and BW but it became a situation where Ash was a product of the series rather than completely consistent in characterization.

You can tell that Ash changed in between him flying home to Kanto and then to Alola. Those series don’t even seem like they happened back to back.

If I had to pick, series should’ve ended in the SM. It had a decent conclusion where Ash had that father son battle with Kuki beat his rival and became a Champion.
 

GohMaster!

Goh Gettem!
I did like SM and BW but it became a situation where Ash was a product of the series rather than completely consistent in characterization.

You can tell that Ash changed in between him flying home to Kanto and then to Alola. Those series don’t even seem like they happened back to back.

If I had to pick, series should’ve ended in the SM. It had a decent conclusion where Ash had that father son battle with Kuki beat his rival and became a Champion.
But now Ash became the world champion. He is the best trainer in the world.
 

Ash Ketchum!

Pokemon Trainer
No, Battle Frontier or DP would have been. XY doesn't count since it came after BW destroyed everything including natural continuity to past series and Ash's progression as a trainer and character.
DP would've been the best place to do it (if they hadn't done it by Johto).

Felt like the culmination of OS and AG. He brought most of his reserves back. DP had the best battle writing and strategies. Perfect time to elevate Ash into champion trainer status then.

BW was meant to be a reboot, they should've committed fully and not used Ash.
 

Shadao

Aim to be a Pokémon Master
No, Battle Frontier or DP would have been. XY doesn't count since it came after BW destroyed everything including natural continuity to past series and Ash's progression as a trainer and character.
DP would've been the best place to do it (if they hadn't done it by Johto).

Felt like the culmination of OS and AG. He brought most of his reserves back. DP had the best battle writing and strategies. Perfect time to elevate Ash into champion trainer status then.

BW was meant to be a reboot, they should've committed fully and not used Ash.

And here's something I realized in hindsight. These potential endings? They aim too small and simply cut Ash short.

Yeah, Johto had Ash beat Gary and the original trio splitting up for good. But we already saw Elite Four Members like Bruno and Lance, trainers more powerful than Ash. Ash and Gary improved since their last League, but they have a personal rivalry to deal with, no where near the top of the top. Ash is then knocked out by Harrison with Gen III Pokémon, indicating a new region to explore and new Pokémon to catch. In short, while Johto is the end of Ash's journey as an upcoming, inexperienced trainer, he wasn't anywhere close to being a Pokémon Master. Just a decent trainer who is now better than his rival.

The Advanced Generation did gave Ash a chance to prove his worth through the Battle Frontier, which had him facing very powerful elite trainers and Legendary Pokémon. He even got his old Kanto trio team back, which seemed appropriate given the 10th anniversary approaching. That would have been the right ending... but is Ash strong enough to defeat the Elite Four now? Are the Frontier Brains really on par with the Elite Four? Not to mention about the Pokémon League, which Ash hasn't reached beyond Top 8. There's a lot of things for Ash to prove himself. A lot of unfinished things.

Diamond and Pearl seemed to offer a great conclusion for Ash... except not really. Ash's Sinnoh League was cut short. Sure, he advanced to Top 4, but it was clear the climax of the story was with a personal rival in the form of Paul, and then they had to boot him out of the tournament with Deus Ex Machina Tobias. There was more promised to us with DP, namely a Champion League where Ash could face Cynthia. Yet, it seemed clear that Cynthia was way beyond Ash's current status. And how do we establish that Cynthia is not only the Champion of Sinnoh, but a Champion that beats other Champions.

BW, the less said, the better. XY could have been a great ending for Ash... if it weren't for the fact that Team Flare arc took much of the climax, ensuring that Ash won't have another chance to face Diantha or the Kalos Elite Four. Not that it matters considering the actual finals. SM did end with Ash's victory and Ash facing Kukui... but it always felt like Ash could go to the next region/generation because of how new the Alola League was and how lower the stakes were.

What these series endings have in common is that while they are personal achievements that Ash has made for himself, they were always relatively small, overshadowed by bigger challenges yet to be faced. As long as the Elite Four and the Champions remain unchallenged, there would always been a reason to follow Ash's journey.

What Journeys did was put a cap on the hierarchy by establishing Leon as the world's greatest and strongest trainer. Not simply an undefeatable Champion of Galar, plainly an unbeatable Champion of the World. He's introduced crushing Lance in their match and this established a confirmed ranking among the Champions, with Cynthia being the second strongest. And with Ash wishing to face Leon and beat him, suddenly there was no ambiguity. If Ash defeats Leon, he will be at the top of the world, the closest he'll ever get to being a Pokémon Master. And if there is no one above him, then there is very little reason to keep following Ash since Title Defense would change the very formula of the Pokémon anime.
 

Yce288

Grass type FTW
Batter late than never, while i dont like that Ash won against Cynthia when her Garchomp was nerfed, Steven battle was OK because it wasnt a full battle so it wasnt done dirty, i guess its better to do it as soon as possible.
i hope the anime will stay true to the games in the next series with no anime only strategies like water allowing electric type moves to hit ground type Pokemon or using Counter on Counter.
 

Rock Captain 99

Following the dreams!!
Not talking about the companions, but the idea was great for this series if it was meant to be the last series of Ash.

But my biggest issue was with it's execution. If it was indeed meant to be his last series, it should have focused more on Ash rather than giving equal screen time to Goh.

Regarding his roster, he should have caught some more Galar Pokemon, as I feel the Galar Pokemon didn't got to shine as much as the regional Pokemon do in their region. He should have caught at least 3 more Galar Pokemon throughout the series.

Further, instead of focusing on random Pokemon (of previous regions) of the day, they could have used Ash's older Pokemon more throughout the series, evolving some of them.

Also, I liked the concept of M8 tournament, and I would have loved it more if it was Ash only to battle all the other trainers one by one like climbing a ladder, and instead of just using his journeys Pokemon throughout, he should have used his reserves in the battles.

If these were the taken care of, Journeys could have been much better and could have been a proper send off to Ash.
 

Gingertail24

Well-Known Member
Yes. Sure JN was less than stellar but I rather him leave as the world strongest trainer, than him leaving after beating one league out of millions of others. Y'know something many people before him has done. It really isn't that special when you think about it

This is the closest Ash has been to a Pokemon master. So much so people mistakenly believe he accomplished his goal
 

Gingertail24

Well-Known Member
Probably because he is called the world champion, and the fact that the tournament he won is the Masters 8. Right in the name.
Yeah I don't blame them at all for thinking that. But it's mostly comes from people who don't even watch the anime from what I've seen

Ash himself said multiple times the strongest doesn't equal Pokemon master
 

Master Pikachu 11

Well-Known Member
I'm gonna be completely honest, the only reason I'm happy this series happened was because an underrated character finally got their flowers and the biggest glo up in the series. Besides that I don't remember anything else that happened in this series that's of relevancy to me minus Aether stuff.

BUT if I did remember anything, I'd say that Goh and Chloe being Ash's final companions was disservice to the series as a whole because to date they are the most boring (group and dynamic wise) ever and for that alone gets an eyebrow raised about should this have really been "it".
Yes because he was able to battle and beat the champions, but they could handled the series in a better way then they did
 

Sarefan

Hylden General.
In theory: yes. In execution: up for debate. Journey's, in the end, is just lots of wasted potential imo.
 

AuraChannelerChris

Easygoing Luxray.

It was poorly executed, the writers outright meant when they said they were going to make him unbeatable (it's not entertaining when the main character wins all the time without suffering a major loss), we really didn't see much of the progress he did during all those Champion-like trainings, and I feel like Goh being around greatly diminished the proper ending to Ash's journey because we apparently had to focus on this newbie kid with the Quick Ball genes succeed as fast as Ash did.

When they announced the 11-episode mini series to end his journey for good, I did a double take when it pointed out that Misty, Brock, and all of his Pokemon will be reunited... So... Why not do Journeys with all of them instead?! Not only would that have fixed how illogical Ash and his reserves were about not fighting together again and perhaps actually believe that he had Pokemon strong enough to beat the likes of Cynthia, but Misty and Brock could have added more chemistry (even if they already got jobs, but it's not like anyone in this universe is really tight on their schedules to goof around with Ash).
 
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Sceptilee

Well-Known Member
A lot of people are saying Sinnoh and I can honestly see why, it was arguably the peak of the anime, Ash had gained a lot of experience over the years and was actually the strongest trainer at the League aside from the plot device, Tobias, and he also had the greatest battle in the anime until perhaps his Cynthia and Leon matches in Journeys. There was just one problem, Ash was still far short of any of the E4s, let alone the Champion, and no matter how you feel about Tobias, him beating Ash 6-2 when it seemed like a monumental effort on Ash's part showed exactly how wide a gulf there still was and how much more stronger he had yet to become. Yes, that wasn't his best team aside from Pikachu and Sceptile (although Swellow and Heracross are both pretty good) but I still don't think he could have done much better than 6-3 or 6-4 with Charizard, Infernape, Snorlax etc.

BW unfortunately didn't result in any progression, arguably taking a step backwards, because they wanted to make it more beginner friendly but that obviously didn't work which is why they revised that in X and Y. Doesn't help that his League loss was also one of the worst battles because his opponent was an idiot (not to say Ash didn't have those moments too, like vs Elesa, but that shouldn't have happened either). No offence btw to those who enjoyed the BW series, this is just about Ash's progression in strength and skill that didn't really happen that season.

X and Y was a huge step though, in that it finally made the Elite 4 and even the Champion approachable whereas they had been untouchable previously. Ash Greninja and Alain were the two main reasons for that and while Ash arguably could and should have won there, almost defeating Alain was still his biggest feat yet, considering he was around Elite 4 level, and opened the door to finally winning a League and actually challenging the top trainers which is something he couldn't have done in Sinnoh or Unova. And he did do just that, not only winning the Alola League but also defeating the Champion of the region (who was probably E4 tier) to become a regional Champion himself. And that led to Journeys and finally the crowning moment for Ash, even though resetting his Pokémon again was not ideal but atleast the ones he did catch were already powerful.

All in all, it was the correct place to end it here and honestly, I don't think most of us even expected him to beat Leon. They definitely could have stretched this a bit more if they wanted to but after beating the likes of Steven and Cynthia, there was no real going back and I'm glad that it ended the way it did.

The most they could have done in Paldea is make Nemona, who's Champion level herself, a rival to him but she still won't hold a candle to Leon even if it would be interesting to see Ash interact with basically "female Ash". Hopefully we now see Ash in cameos in Paldea and as someone the new protagonists look up to (the girl probably already does, whether she's his daughter or just someone inspired by him, because of her hairstyle). Would be even cooler if he's idealised by people like Nemona herself in Paldea.
 
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