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Was Journeys the correct series to end Ash's Journey?

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[Dam]n h[er] Gan[dal]f!
What should have happened is:

1. Ash vs Tyson is the Hoenn League semifinals (could have easily eliminated 1 round), where Ash places top 4
2. Ash accepts a Frontier Brain position
4. A few years pass, and an older and more skilled Ash decides to give up his post and set off to win it all
5. DP unfolds, where Ash vs Paul is the Sinnoh League finals, which he wins
6. BW should have been a JN-esque final series. Ash could have had his XY-esque characterization here. If they wanted to do shipping like Amour, they could have made Rosa/Hilda/Bianca have a crush (fits with the older ages of the BW characters), or have it to be one of the previous companions like Dawn or Misty

We could have had a new protagonist by XY. RIP.

XY would've worked had they been a bit longer for a finale arc, same for DP but also removing the Flint episode. Though I feel like either way a season like JN would've probably been needed post-league win, maybe shorter, but still something that brings it all together (even if JN itself really fumbled on that)

The reason XY wouldn't have worked as a finale arc either is it suffered from being such a standalone series. Minimal continuity and no reserves appeared. Plus, I think the writers wanted to cling onto the progression that (barring BW 'reset') Ash had with the league conferences: Top 16 --> Top 8 --> Top 8 (without reserves, loss to winner, hardest format) --> Top 4 --> --> Top 2 (without reserves, loss to winner) --> Winner in Alola.

The PWC concept itself in JN was great, and made for a final series where Ash defeats Elite 4s and Champions. The problem was the execution and lack of using reserves.

I don't understand this argument whatsoever.

A literal baby Riolu that Ash hatched was able to, somehow, grow to become as powerful as a Champion-level Pokemon within a short timespan. It makes no sense, but it happened because it was dictated by the logic on which Journeys operates.

If they could take a random eggmon/babymon and turn it into a Champion-level battler for the PWC, the writers could easily have done it with any one of Ash's existing reserves, lol.

So this argument that you people keep using that Ash's reserves "aren't strong enough" is completely invalid when you see what the writers did with Ash's Riolu/Lucario.

As I wrote in another thread:

"JN Ash is an enigma where nothing he has shown in battle is any more outright skillful than what Ash has done in the past in DP/XY/SM, and the JN team was downright broken with their meteoric rise. The only logical in-universe explanation for this is that JN Ash has become Elite 4/Champion-tier and therefore any Pokemon he now captures and trains will exponentially rise in power, much more than his prior regional captures (which usually had 1 regional ace and secondary ace) when he was a 'weaker' trainer."

Their main point is that this team defeated champions, while the others did not, hence they are the “strongest”, but I agree with you. This team managed those victories because jn writers said so and that’s it.

The largest driving force in this show is narrative.

Pretty much.

So essentially, there's no justifiable reason for Ash not to use any of his reserves. He didn't even need to use all of them, he could have just used the strongest ones, that would've been fair. Or even trained some of his weaker ones, the same way he trained baby Riolu. But for the 25th anniversary, Ash's final series, the grand culmination of all his adventures, for Ash's reserves to just stand on the sidelines and watch from afar as Ash is crowned the strongest trainer in the world, to not use a single one of them in these monumental moments of his life, is beyond insulting and dissatisfying.

So my answer to the OP's question is no. No, this was not the correct way to end Ash's journey. But it is what it is.

It would have been so simple too. Give the JN team all of the PWC battles pre-Masters 8 tournament.

Then for the Masters 8 tournament, make it so that it is a full battle round robin, and the two trainers with the best records go to the finals.

Team 1: Charizard/Bulbasaur/Squirtle/Kingler/Tauros/Muk
Team 2: Quilava/Bayleef/Totodile/Snorlax/Heracross/Noctowl
Team 3: Sceptile/Corphish/Torkoal/Swellow/Glalie/Donphan
Team 4: Infernape/Buizel/Torterra/Gliscor/Gible/Staraptor
Team 5: Pignite/Snivy/Oshawott/Krookodile/Unfezant/Boldore
Team 6: Greninja/Talonflame/Leavanny*/Hawlucha/Goodra/Noivern
Team 7: Incineroar/Rowlet/Palpitoad*/Naganadel/Lycanroc/Melmetal

Ash goes 5-2 (the Johto team loses to Cynthia, and the Unova team gets wiped by Leon). Leon goes 7-0, and Cynthia also goes 5-2.

So Ash and Cynthia have a tiebreaker, where he uses the JN team (Pikachu/Lucario/Sirfetch'd/Dracovish/Gengar/Dragonite), and he repeats this team against Leon.

Why is the hoenn loss to Meowth in boots not considered as bad as some of the others?

Because Tyson's Puss in Boots was supposed to be a mirror to Ash's Pikachu, an anomaly that is much more powerful than its species.


I think if the right time for ash to end the journey would have been either dp or xy but they extend it so i think now the journeys is the perfect place to end ash's journey but it still feels incomplete to see ash end his journey while I'm happy that we are getting new protagonists in the upcoming anime
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Ash Ketchum!

Pokemon Trainer
Best times to have ended it:
  1. End of DP
  2. End of Johto
  3. End of AG (Battle Frontier)
  4. End of Journeys (what we are got now)
  5. End of Kanto
  6. End of SM (drastic shift for the anime but won a championship)
  7. End of XY (minimal attempts at continuity)
  8. End of BW (competency reset + end felt like an apology/backtrack)
One wonders how Ash winning in one of the aforementioned series would've played out. Would Ash have won the Sinnoh League if they decided to retire him then? Would an MPM epilogue in DP have been better written (while also featuring the return of Misty and Ash going after the Champion League)? Would an ending in Johto have given us answers to things like Ash's dad?


Comes out of Nowhere
Mostly yes.

I say mostly yes because Pokemon journeys really do have that vibe of being 'the final season' with Ash traveling all around the world with Goh (And occasionally Chloe), Not to mention all the callbacks to things that happened in the past and with several old characters returning in this season.

However, I think this could've been done better. First of all, I don't think Goh and Chloe should've been Ash's final companions. Second of all, I think Ash should've used his reserves a little more during this season for several battles (I'm not saying that he should use them ALL the time, just occasionally). More episodes that revolve around Ash hanging out with his own Pokemon would've been cool to see as well.

Who knows? Perhaps what I was hoping for is a little too much.
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