Red and Blue
Well-Known Member
Either SM or this series would have worked for me to end his story. For Journeys a lot of things would have had to been changed and improved though.
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Was Journeys the correct series to end Ash's Journey?
- Thread starter Sham
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JustAStatistic
Super Casual Trainer
The best place to end Ash's journey would have been at the end of DP, no surprises here. Ash beats Paul, wins the tournament, and whether or not he beats Cynthia, we have the perfect opportunity to introduce a new protagonist for the soft reboot BW.
The second best would have been OS, after the Johto League. Ash beats Gary, loses to Harrison, and we get an open-ended ending with narrator saying something like "Ash will continue his adventure, meeting new people and Pokémon, to continue chasing his dream of becoming a Pokémon Master."
Ending now with Journeys is the third best time. Even with it's very flawed execution, it's still a better end point than the last three series.
SM would have been an okay ending. Ash became a regional Champion with his mom and Professor Oak watching, Brock and Misty came back with a major glow up, and Ash and Pikachu's bond net them a big win.
XY would have been weird. Unlike Tobias, Alain is too plot relevant to remove from the story, and his victory is actually important to his character arc, so Ash's journey would have to be concluded with a giant L. Also, XY's self contained nature works against it, as it ignores everything before Kalos. And personally, I would've been miffed if Pikachu got shafted in Ash's final series.
DP > OS Johto > JN > SM > XY >>> OS Kanto > AG/BF > BW
The second best would have been OS, after the Johto League. Ash beats Gary, loses to Harrison, and we get an open-ended ending with narrator saying something like "Ash will continue his adventure, meeting new people and Pokémon, to continue chasing his dream of becoming a Pokémon Master."
Ending now with Journeys is the third best time. Even with it's very flawed execution, it's still a better end point than the last three series.
SM would have been an okay ending. Ash became a regional Champion with his mom and Professor Oak watching, Brock and Misty came back with a major glow up, and Ash and Pikachu's bond net them a big win.
XY would have been weird. Unlike Tobias, Alain is too plot relevant to remove from the story, and his victory is actually important to his character arc, so Ash's journey would have to be concluded with a giant L. Also, XY's self contained nature works against it, as it ignores everything before Kalos. And personally, I would've been miffed if Pikachu got shafted in Ash's final series.
DP > OS Johto > JN > SM > XY >>> OS Kanto > AG/BF > BW
AZ-the-I-don't-even-know
Rip bozo
At least they didn't end it after BW
Trey pokes
Well-Known Member
I'm just glad it didn't end til now cuz SM and JN just feel like the right spots to end end with.
ShuckFam
Well-Known Member
Either Sinnoh or Kalos was the right place to end it.
In Sinnoh, Ash had an amazing rivalry, the writing was great and he was growing as a trainer and developing unique strategies that he frequently implemented in battles. Plus, they had the perfect set up for a champion league tournament that would have been fitting for Ash's last hurrah. Finally, Sinnoh was the last generation of the anime which genuinely felt tied to the previous seasons. From Unova onwards, it's like Ash has multiple personalities. He resets to goofy noob Ash in Unova, changes to a cooltrainer in Kalos and then becomes a fusion of his Unova/Kalos personalities in SM and JN.
Part of the reason why I would be against his journey ending in Kalos is because you have to accept that Unova Ash was part of his story. The great reset of Ash in the BW era is the biggest stain on his character. If Kalos came after DP, it would make sense that Ash matured into this type of person and it would be a fitting way for his story to end. Maybe remove Serena and Ash Greninja to make it perfect but that's just me being greedy.
In Sinnoh, Ash had an amazing rivalry, the writing was great and he was growing as a trainer and developing unique strategies that he frequently implemented in battles. Plus, they had the perfect set up for a champion league tournament that would have been fitting for Ash's last hurrah. Finally, Sinnoh was the last generation of the anime which genuinely felt tied to the previous seasons. From Unova onwards, it's like Ash has multiple personalities. He resets to goofy noob Ash in Unova, changes to a cooltrainer in Kalos and then becomes a fusion of his Unova/Kalos personalities in SM and JN.
Part of the reason why I would be against his journey ending in Kalos is because you have to accept that Unova Ash was part of his story. The great reset of Ash in the BW era is the biggest stain on his character. If Kalos came after DP, it would make sense that Ash matured into this type of person and it would be a fitting way for his story to end. Maybe remove Serena and Ash Greninja to make it perfect but that's just me being greedy.
SerGoldenhandtheJust
Deluded Dreamer
The question can be answered in two ways
Was it the time to end Ash's journey? Yes. Arguably a bit late but stretching it out more would have been catastrophic. With the premise of a world tour series and a PWC with Ash aiming to be champions of champions after becoming a champion in the previous series as old companions return and we get an epilogue, it's perfect. Esp again, after all this time. It needed to happen. No other series as they stand would have been right to end the series on. Every series pre SM had Ash take the L towards his dream, and as much as I love SM it would have been a BAD decision to end his journey after SM, him becoming a champion wasn't enough esp when we had seen so many regions and their champions too. Ash championing the champions was the perfect natural conclusion as he became the very best like no one ever was.
I feel even Goh and Chloe as Ash's final companions work very well simply coz of how ambitious Goh was, fitting well for a finale while also having great chemistry with Ash. And Chloe getting a unique arc that ties in with unlimited possibilities for a journey which now rhymes well with what we saw of Ash as we approach his final journey
Now, the second question
Was JN the correct attempt? I'd say not really in ever aspect. It had shoddy execution in lots of places, unfortunate production issues and some story decisions that could have been better. But ultimately, I'm glad JN IS the last series for Ash despite it hurting,
Better to end it on a high note than destroy Ash and his character to stretch him further
Was it the time to end Ash's journey? Yes. Arguably a bit late but stretching it out more would have been catastrophic. With the premise of a world tour series and a PWC with Ash aiming to be champions of champions after becoming a champion in the previous series as old companions return and we get an epilogue, it's perfect. Esp again, after all this time. It needed to happen. No other series as they stand would have been right to end the series on. Every series pre SM had Ash take the L towards his dream, and as much as I love SM it would have been a BAD decision to end his journey after SM, him becoming a champion wasn't enough esp when we had seen so many regions and their champions too. Ash championing the champions was the perfect natural conclusion as he became the very best like no one ever was.
I feel even Goh and Chloe as Ash's final companions work very well simply coz of how ambitious Goh was, fitting well for a finale while also having great chemistry with Ash. And Chloe getting a unique arc that ties in with unlimited possibilities for a journey which now rhymes well with what we saw of Ash as we approach his final journey
Now, the second question
Was JN the correct attempt? I'd say not really in ever aspect. It had shoddy execution in lots of places, unfortunate production issues and some story decisions that could have been better. But ultimately, I'm glad JN IS the last series for Ash despite it hurting,
Better to end it on a high note than destroy Ash and his character to stretch him further
Litleonid
Well-Known Member
Honestly, no.
Here's my problem: While ending with Ash defeating Leon to become World Champion was a fitting conclusion, the build up wasn't. He spent most of early to mid Journeys as an NPC for Goh and his team didn't get the best development. I mean their screentime was weak and they didn't get proper chances to interact like other Pokemon Ash had. Ash's development wasn't the best, with rank climbing happening off screen and the losing streak being handled so poorly, with it being overcome off screen. While the conclusion is fitting, the build up to it was messy.
Here's my problem: While ending with Ash defeating Leon to become World Champion was a fitting conclusion, the build up wasn't. He spent most of early to mid Journeys as an NPC for Goh and his team didn't get the best development. I mean their screentime was weak and they didn't get proper chances to interact like other Pokemon Ash had. Ash's development wasn't the best, with rank climbing happening off screen and the losing streak being handled so poorly, with it being overcome off screen. While the conclusion is fitting, the build up to it was messy.
SatoSereFan224888
Well-Known Member
Yes and no. Yes because I feel it was long overdue for Ash to be replaced but I felt it should have been done sooner, at the end of the Kalos saga. Ash got screwed out of winning it because I feel Yuyama overruled any writer who wanted Ash to win, which was everyone.
cricketlaxwolvesbandy
Summoning...
Yuyama didn’t want Ash to win because stick to the status quo, but then said screw it and had Ash win the Alola League, World Championship, and have him retire
Sham
The Guardian of War
Bruh I forgot I made this thread. Immediately no to BW and XY. BW is self explanatory and XY had the least amount of continuity in the history of the series.
At most, this series should’ve ended during DP or SM. DP was basically Ash’s peak and he even used reserves here in this league. SM is the series where he becomes Champion and we actually get a cast of Pokémon that’s shown psychically training and has their own individual shown personalities that makes us care more and invested in their potential and capability during battles
At most, this series should’ve ended during DP or SM. DP was basically Ash’s peak and he even used reserves here in this league. SM is the series where he becomes Champion and we actually get a cast of Pokémon that’s shown psychically training and has their own individual shown personalities that makes us care more and invested in their potential and capability during battles
AuraChannelerChris
Easygoing Luxray.
Well to be fair...!
Yeah, it kind of looked too much like a school tournament because all the classmates passed to the higher rounds.
Trey pokes
Well-Known Member
It is and the WCS was probably the best way to show off Ash nowadays as opposed to doing gyms over and over.
AuraChannelerChris
Easygoing Luxray.
How to get rid of all the Champions (Plus Alain) in One Way: The Scheme
Special Guest Star: Go "Goh" Ne
Sham
The Guardian of War
Pretty much, literally replace them with characters of the day and almost nothing changes since the main purpose is Ash fighting Leon and nothing or no one exists
mehmeh1
Not thinking twice!
XY would've worked had they been a bit longer for a finale arc, same for DP but also removing the Flint episode. Though I feel like either way a season like JN would've probably been needed post-league win, maybe shorter, but still something that brings it all together (even if JN itself really fumbled on that)
AuraChannelerChris
Easygoing Luxray.
The difference is that Champions should have had more importance, but it doesn't really help that half of them were just around to be charcoal fodder for Leon, and the other half (or really 5 out of 7) basically had no personal business to fight Leon more than Ash did.
Not even Cynthia fighting Ash was as personal as they made it look like to be, because prior, Cynthia didn't even bother to fight Ash, and she was pushed aside in the second Sinnoh special showing off a Pokemon she never used again. And just to hammer in the silliness of their connection, the writers made up a history that Cynthia got her Garchomp as an egg (in a rich mansion that shouldn't exist in rundown Celestic Town) to connect her to Ash's Lucario being gotten from an egg too right before they fought. They could have made this connection as soon as when Ash met up with Cynthia in the Unown episode and maybe have them battle, but, up until their actual battle, his Lucario was a complete stranger to her Garchomp (then again, Lucario was also a total stranger to Raihan (not his steel dino)).
lol Steven.
So yeah.
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